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#61 Drew

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:01 PM

I see three BFs DDA.

Did I win?
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#62 damndirtyape

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:01 PM

And for those of you who do not know what an Elk Wallow looks like or think that I do not... from the air over Skookum Meadows. A lot of ground can be covered from the air but there are somethings you have to do in order to capture good images from up there. 500 feet is way too low to fly for photography, too much of the aircrafts motion is imparted on the images. You have to have the door off and hang out the side of the plane. Only use a wing over body aircraft. Don't be afraid to ask the pilot to loop back around for more pictures. With 35mm or equivalent in digital, use a lens equal to or less then 80mm. If you need to get more detail fly closer and slower. Make sure you have a tether for you and your camera, besides the seatbelt. LOL.
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#63 treeknocker

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:10 PM

Ha .. It just got more interesting :) Now the question DDA is if
the subject(s) in question were added in photoshop, there originally,
or is there some other feature option ?---
IF there originally what are the options? Strong advocate in images with good resolution. Comments appreciated :). My guess is if you thought you saw something special you had the pilot (you?) head back for more views and possibly more images. If more people incorporated planes for viewing I presume that would add to the observations and those would be enhanced by images taken from lenses of significance.
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#64 Spazmo

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:13 PM

Nice pics DDA.
I know what you mean, I had to sit in the open doorway of one of the old CG helis once. Not for the faint of heart...
And a little teeny white speck on an enormous ocean sure doesn't present itself as a "landing zone".

Do you ever take airborne video, or are you mainly focusing on stills? HD camcorders are pretty cheap now, and movement will always pop out from the images (similar to your animated gifs).
Very nice airborne imagery, BTW.
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#65 treeknocker

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:15 PM

Just got the elk images after my post. Nice work & comments. So.. did Drew win ? B)
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#66 damndirtyape

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:28 PM

This plane trip was 3hr. in length, and cost $2,000. The purpose was to check out Skookum Meadows from the air, locate active elk wallows for subsequent ground investigation. Of course other photography was done along the way, including thermal and Hi Def video. This plane was equipped with a belly hole and gimbal mount for the video/thermal equipment. So there was no corresponding video or thermal for the still images unfortunately.

The trouble with a fixed wing trip like this is that you can not see everything there is to see during it, hence the photography. The plane is traveling just too quickly (just under 100 miles an hour). I would not compare it to someone discovering an anomaly in their pictures taken on the ground and much later finding it. It takes a lot of effort in going over the images later. The very first picture I posted took an hour to weed through. I took 456 still images, 2 hrs of Hi Def video and about 40 minutes of thermal on this trip.

I have done the same in a helicopter. The helicopter is just as expensive but only lasts for 1 hour. The advantage is that you could, if need be, land and check something out, plus of course the reduced speed.

The dark object I have focused in on is not photoshoped in. It is real, what ever it is. If we are to take it for a human shaped animal, the left shoulder has a light area on it, possibly indicating a roundness to it.. There seems to be a shadow cast to the right and behind the animal, as if it is standing upright.

If we are to take it for a shadow under those rocks, the light area could be the underside of the rocks having some fill light from the ground and the shadow to the right on the ground, that coming from some sharp rocky projections.

At best, the image is inconclusive... now if it had raised it's arm...

Edited by damndirtyape, 04 January 2011 - 02:33 PM.

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#67 damndirtyape

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:41 PM

So the question is... what can we do with photography to make it more acceptable as evidence. Some ideas are:

1. Context,
2. Chain of custody,
3. Interpreted correctly,
4. Enough resolution and sharpness,

Help!!!! anybody?
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#68 treeknocker

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 06:17 PM

Percentages? Limb length vs head size vs shoulder width ? Ratios? Even silhouettes offer these options. IF there is a range of limb lengths that exceed people in areas like you photographed .. it sure seems unlikely there is much chance for silliness with suits. Seems if you went back in a helicoptor you could measure the surrounding trees perhaps and get an index to the size on the subjects in question ?

Darn interesting series dda. I hope you got some of the data you were looking for via the elk wallows.. and good prospects for more field investigation. Happy New Year and great luck to you.
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#69 JohnCartwright

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 08:15 PM

And for those of you who do not know what an Elk Wallow looks like or think that I do not.


Well DDA, I really don't mean to be insulting, but they look like the Skookum cast. Nothing but respect for you sir, but I am not buying that cast as Bigfoot evidence.
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#70 Squatchdetective

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 08:21 PM

I did not know that about the pines. I've been trying to figure out why it seems during the spring, summer and autumn months why we have so many sightings in a Maple, Oak Birch areas of forest, but in the winter months, sightings increase in the evergreen/fir sections of the forest here and drop off in the other. This thread may have just answered that question.
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#71 southernyahoo

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 08:27 PM

So the question is... what can we do with photography to make it more acceptable as evidence. Some ideas are:

1. Context,
2. Chain of custody,
3. Interpreted correctly,
4. Enough resolution and sharpness,

Help!!!! anybody?


Good lighting could establish a uniform color of the subject.
Time of year could argue against a man in a gullie suit.
Proportinal study could reveal non- human proportions using congruent or incongruent triangles which don't require actual measurements but consistent data points, similar to how I can compare the leg mass of Patty with Bob H. and a body builder.


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#72 damndirtyape

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:48 PM

Well DDA, I really don't mean to be insulting, but they look like the Skookum cast. Nothing but respect for you sir, but I am not buying that cast as Bigfoot evidence.


No insult, but what looks like the Skookum cast? Those aerial pictures?

This is a bit jumpy, what with three images. It is looking up Ape Canyon. The difference with this one is that I saw the dark object in the center... only after doing this on a computer did I discover it to be ...
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#73 damndirtyape

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:53 PM

Just a cliff face in shadow being revealed in a slight turn up the canyon. I have yet to get up this canyon on foot but hope to real soon.
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#74 masterbarber

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 06:03 AM

So the question is... what can we do with photography to make it more acceptable as evidence.

Help!!!! anybody?


Short of starting another 43 year argument, most likely nothing.
Although "borrowing" one of those NRO keyhole satellites would be kinda neat.
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#75 bipedalist

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 06:56 AM

Nice project DDA, next time you've got to drop an elk into one of the wallows for scale though
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#76 dogu4

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 08:50 AM

Very nice. Riding around in a vibrating/moving aircraft for long times is impractical, though mounting a high powered spotting scope on a high prospect that allows for extended observations across longer distances of a sizeable habitat in high aspect/mountainous terraine has always been a idea that I'd like to pursue some day if the opportunity arises.
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#77 damndirtyape

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 08:50 AM

Nice project DDA, next time you've got to drop an elk into one of the wallows for scale though


Can you not see that each of the wallow pictures does have elk in them?
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#78 damndirtyape

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 08:54 AM

Very nice. Riding around in a vibrating/moving aircraft for long times is impractical, though mounting a high powered spotting scope on a high prospect that allows for extended observations across longer distances of a sizeable habitat in high aspect/mountainous terraine has always been a idea that I'd like to pursue some day if the opportunity arises.


I totally agree... but where do you set up to observe from? I always find myself second guessing my choices and saying something like... bet there's a better chance right on the other side of that ridge. LOL. That is where the needle in the haystack pokes at ya.
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#79 dogu4

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 09:35 AM

DDA: My current thoughts as to where to set up a stable platform for observation is to select an area in the inter-mountain west region, such as in Southern Colorado where there exist roads through high country, such as the BLM's "discovery routes". I remember the discussion from the previous forum where members were thinking of setting up an observation point on a naturally high prospect along I-90 as it passes through the Cascades, that could watch a long stretch of the corridor through which it passes. The intermountain region farther south is particularly nice also as its weather is frequently dominated by stable high pressure which leads to very clear air and which would permit good viewing over miles, and the landscape contains meadows for grazing animals, constrained water sources, and physical barriers that would confine the movement of animals (and people) who travel within that area. I would, ideally, have a group of campers in the observation area so that any activity they suspect could be checked from the observation platform and not be detected by a distracted and curious visitor, if one should happen to examine the camp and its activity. In much of the rests of the country, especially the woodlands east of the Mississippi, even if you can find a suitable prospect, will have relatively turbulent weather and the presence of humidity and hydrocarbons (terpenes and isoprenes from trees and other components due to human activity) severely limit the long distance viewing.
I would add that I think Hunster's concept of using a boat along some stretches of the inside-passage coastline in the Pacific Northwest and up to Alaska's Prince William Sound region, which he's mentioned from time to time, is also an intriguing idea for similar reasons, though my personal experiences in observing animals on the coast (which are without question spectacular and remarkable) in that area lead me to think that the viewing leaves much to be desired; rain, fog and fata morgana.
You are right in that there is no perfect or ideal location, but observing over the long term without one's own presence being detected seems to me the best way to see whatever is going on, particulary if the quarry one seeks possesses an acute awareness of what is going on within its immediate, and even more distant surroundings, as I suspect a truly smart and experienced human, even an ancestral one, would.
Cheers.
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#80 bipedalist

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 10:20 AM

Can you not see that each of the wallow pictures does have elk in them?


No but I did see the sasquatch dermals in the prints in the wallow third from the left :blink:
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