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Missing People, Related Bigfoot Questions, Are They Related?


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#1 Gumshoeye

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:23 PM

Like many, I listened to the interviews and read reviews and after giving it some serious thought I finally bought and read Paulides' Missing 411 and the companion Eastern United States book cover-to-cover and jotted down some questions of my own. For those who have already read the books will know that many missing persons identified therein speaks of clothes being removed. I ask myself ask why? What could possibly be the purpose for that? Any opinions?
I am hopeful those reviewing this discussion will take a moment and share their ideas or answers to a few of these questions.


Thanks to all,


Gumshoeye



Removing Clothes

Human scent?

Intelligence?

Thwart Human response and SAR teams?

Clothes discarded like food wrappers?

Are they removed to prevent escape?

Are they color blind?

Does one color attract more animals and predators than others?

What would the color red signify to them?


Missing People

Clusters of 50 mile radius?

More occurrences on odd years than even?

What was weather?



Berry Pickers

How season differ from different parts of country?

Do higher numbers of reported sightings coincide with ripe berry season abductions?



Rural Settings

Other than natural habitat, why would more abductions occur in difficult terrain?



Intelligence

How intelligent are they?

If they are as intelligent as some believe would they believe worn human clothes as layers of skin?

Do they possess some indication of cunning and intelligence?

How cunning are they?

Is it possible they deliberately call pets knowing humans follow?

Do they know humans die from exposure?



Extrasensory Abilities

Do they call pets knowing children or adults follow?

Do they cast a spell?

What would cause memory loss?

Is it possible they can communicate with animals?

What would cause tracking dogs to refuse a track, or stop altogether?



Illnesses

What would cause victims to catch fevers and delirium?

Are there biological immunological reasons humans get ill near them?

What would cause dizziness, confusion, fuzzy headed feelings?

Beyond exposure, shock, what could be cause loss of consciousness?

What other reasons or purposes would greater numbers of disabled or impaired victims serve to a captor?



Weather

Why does weather seem to a play a role in abduction incidents?

Does weather randomly occur by coincidence or is there some other diabolical explanation?

Does weather play a role in known abductions with foul play unrelated to BF?
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#2 OTC

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:50 PM

In answer to your question, I can't offer a reasonable theory but I do think Paulides' Missing 411 is on to something, Something that many persons have long whispered about.

I can tell you that I purchased the book because for close to 20 years I've been noticing the strange disapearances and clusters-of-missing in the Northwest. Inexplicable, unexplainable stuff which as an outdoorsmans, both deeply interests and at the same time frightens me.

I've even encouraged certain reporters to followup years later on some cases they wrote detailed articles about. But without success. The modern news cycle isn't much interested in looking backwards, or exploring certain patterns over time.

Paulides has, and deserves recognition for doing so.
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#3 Rockape

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

Covered here


http://bigfootforums...ntly-its-scary/
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#4 OntarioSquatch

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:05 PM

I've read the western edition, but I think I'll buy the eastern edition and Tribal Bigfoot after the world-changing DNA study he's been talking about comes out.
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#5 Gumshoeye

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

OntarioSquatch, Rockape, and OTC, Thank you for the responses. I believe this creature to be the Preeminent Predator of the wild for which we know so little about... While a few people may see them as benevolent I see them otherwise. Some well meaning individuals deftly go through life thinking all is peace, love and happiness even going so far as feeding them "Blue berry muffins or dog food" maybe placing themselves or others in harms way by something as simple as naiveté through false advertising.

Somebody once suggested... "What if these are angels?" Angels? I thought to myself Really Dude?... How can one construe something screams grolws, grunts as an angelic being? A hairy smelling creature, of enormous stature and immense strength and extreme cunning and intelligence with apparent ability to cause a laundry list of of isms, fever, hallucinations, nervouse breakdowns, loose bowels and leaky bladders stalking or throwing rocks at you can be recognized as kindly and friendly is beyond me. Something is amiss. Then a book comes along such as Missing 411, and it sort of places all the pieces of the puzzle in their proper place leaving up to the individual's own freewill and reasoning to see as it is. Some will believe, others refuse, and still others will never get it.

If a citizen on the street today in Anywhere, U.S.A. displayed the same behavior i.e. Grunting, Growling and stalking and peeking at another while throwing rocks at them they would be viewed as a threat. A menace of society with some sort of anti-social disorder, and would likely be hauled off the street and taken to jail for disorderly conduct or stalking... not fed Bluberry muffins. So why do some humans enable their likelihood of coming closer to human population centers with that behavior?

This obsession with the human body or nakedness and taking the clothes off of the victims is extremely bothersome but why? The lightheadedness and dizzyness accompanied by memory loss leaving human and pets in a seemingly an undeniable trance-like state should be concerning enough, but abducting one against their own will followed by predictable weather fronts is a little more unsettling to me... but why? These are answers I hoping some of you and other members can answer. Nothing is a coincidence in my opinion. I do not believe coincidences but they may well be merely nature's way of giving you a second chance see or do something you missed the first time around.
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#6 Mulder

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:43 AM

Oddly enough, taking clothes off is a symptom of advanced hypothermia. As the body systems begin to go wacky due to cold, people going hypothermic experience the tactile hallucination of being hot and remove their clothes.

http://www.mountainp...ypothermia.html

http://www.wildernes...ypothermia.html

(see also "paradoxical undressing")

another counter-intuitive behavior sometimes seen in hypothermia cases is what is known as "terminal burrowing" or "hide-and-die syndrome", wherein the sufferer secretes themselves in a small, hidden space before death

http://bja.oxfordjou...t/94/1/140.full

http://emedinews.org...ie-syndrome-172

It is not clear whether the sufferer is acting delusionally or is engaging in a last-ditch effort to find a situation to increase their ability to remain warm by trapping expelled heat and preventing it from diffusing to the environment.

Don't get me wrong, I think some BF sometimes DO take humans, either as prey or possibly for other purposes. I just don't think paradoxical undressing or finding the body in a hidden location necessarily in and of themselves indicate BF involvement.
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#7 chelefoot

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:33 PM

I'm bumping this thread because I see that it is being discussed in a few others. (Also because I am reading the 411 books and would like to hear others input).

 

^^Mulder offers a few more links to the terminal burrowing and paradoxical undressing during hypothermia.


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#8 MIB

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:37 PM

I've read all three.   I had a few questions for David P. along the way which he cleared up and one which he would not .. he would not specifically say what he thought was behind the disappearances.   I wish he would 'cause one of the places he said he'd never go alone for love or money and only go with a group with trepidation while heavily armed is ... exactly my favorite area to go alone.  "Yikes."  It'd sure be nice to know "armed against WHAT?"   One of the things I do there, when possible, is hike off-trail cross country.   If something IS setting a trap (ala the Larry Kelm story), if I don't even know where I'm going, I'm going to be really hard to anticipate and ambush.  :)   "Color me paranoid."  

 

It appeared in the first two that David was, despite his insistence otherwise, pointing towards bigfoot.   Toward the end of the 3rd volume he began to draw parallels between specific cases and reported UFO abduction case symptoms.   I'm not sure if that's where he's headed, but it seemed that way.

 

I don't believe all of the cases can be attributed to a single cause.   I think there are several different things at work.   One of them, honestly, is David not being thorough enough.  I've talked to S&R people who were on the original searches who say they have indeed been resolved, something David didn't mention.   But not all, not even close to all.  

 

One of the things that bothers me is a subset of the disappear-ees seem to be pretty seasoned outdoorsmen, life long hunters, backwoods hikers, etc.  I'm pretty good out there, but some of those guys are at least my equal.   They "got got."  Unless they were in denial about the existence of what got them which contributed to their downfall, whatever got them could get me.  That's a chilling wake-up call.

 

Of the cases that seem to be bigfoot related, only a very few point to clear malice.   The rest .. we could be misreading the motives badly.   It depends on what bigfoot truly is, emotionally / mentally / intellectually, not just biologically. 

 

There's no wrap up at the end, a comfortable "who done it."   Just questions.   However, knowing what the past cases look like, we might recognize what is happening if we seem to be getting into a parallel situation ourselves and do the unexpected rather than what we're being herded towards, thus survive.  That's the best thing I can come away with. 

 

I don't believe anything specific about them, they just add to my list of unanswered questions.

 

Though I don't believe these are predominantly bigfoot-related, I still suggest not reading this stuff right before a trip to the woods, leave yourself time to process and re-center.   

 

Just my opinion, though ... worth half what you paid for it.  :)

 

MIB


Edited by MIB, 01 August 2013 - 03:38 PM.

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#9 norseman

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:57 PM

Hypothermia is not the end all be all to people losing clothing in the woods.

My personal theory which dovetails into bright colors is that if your tracking a target in the forest with bright colors with the intent of abduction?

Once you have the target in your control your going to want to lose those bright colors pronto. Otherwise you will now be tracked through the woods as easily as you did with your victim.

Also taking someone's shoes is a way of shackling them. A person used to wearing shoes does not cover much ground in bad terrain without them. Making it much more likely that they cannot escape you.

Lastly how do we account for children being found dead miles from where a typical SAR search grid tells them to look based on the child's range based on age?

Some of these cases could be mundane but some of them are definitely not mundane, and point to foul play.
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#10 Grifter9931

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:41 PM

It would be interesting to know a reason for the Parks service being so evasive about the number of folks "missing" within the park... Allegedly

I know of an accusation against the Australian tourist board, for claiming that many of the reported drownings that occur are actually shark attacks.. Because it could affect tourism.

But what would the NPS reason be for being so evasive about how many people supposedly go missing within the park itself would be interesting.


Edited by Grifter9931, 01 August 2013 - 04:43 PM.

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#11 Urkelbot

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:49 PM

It would be interesting to know a reason for the Parks service being so evasive about the number of folks "missing" within the park... Allegedly

I know of an accusation against the Australian tourist board, for claiming that many of the reported drownings that occur are actually shark attacks.. Because it could affect tourism.

But what would the NPS reason be for being so evasive about how many people supposedly go missing within the park itself would be interesting.

 Whatever causes people to go missing.makes the Parks service look bad.  People will blame the parks for deaths, accidents, etc even if its not their fault.  


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#12 Grifter9931

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:57 PM

 Whatever causes people to go missing.makes the Parks service look bad.  People will blame the parks for deaths, accidents, etc even if its not their fault.  

 

But if the parks service came out and said its a BF... THen I guess it would be harder to contain and bunch of folks with 30.06's rolling through.


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#13 chelefoot

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 10:24 PM

I don't believe all of the cases can be attributed to a single cause.   I think there are several different things at work.   One of them, honestly, is David not being thorough enough.  I've talked to S&R people who were on the original searches who say they have indeed been resolved, something David didn't mention.   But not all, not even close to all.  

 


MIB

Is it because these were not resolved until after he completed his research?


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#14 Henry Frapp

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:05 PM

One thing Dave P has mentioned in a couple of interviews is that its strange that children climb rather than descend a mountain when lost. 27 years ago, I was camping and fishing in the Southern Sierra's when a ranger came by to inquire about a missing child. I was camping at the top end of a loop trail at 10,000 feet (tree line) and 10 miles from the trail head and any road. After telling him no but I would keep my eyes peeled, I asked why a kid wouldn't naturally descend a mountain rather than climb. I'll never forget what he said, he stated that adults have a tendency to descend when lost but kids climb when lost. Thought I would put that out there for whats its worth.

 

To the question of missing people and BF, I think its fair and worth consideration that BF might be responsible for some of these missing people. Afterall, he is wild, regardless if he be man or beast or both. Alas, an old hunter safety instructor told me that if I spent enough time in the field, I'd see and hear many things I can't explain. That being said, Hypothermia is probably why some of these lost people do crazy things. I also suspect mountain lions to be a chief suspect in some cases of missing people.

 

On a hunting trip once, I double tracked back to base camp when I noticed a mountain lion track inside a boot print that I'd made not more than an hour before. And I was alone. It was a bit unnerving knowing this thing was probably staliking me. I spent a good deal of my time checking my back trail all the way back to camp.


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#15 Midnight Owl

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 06:38 AM

Having retired from a first career in public safety, I fully realize bad things happen to good people.  I also grew up along the west coast, hunting, fishing, camping and hiking in remote wilderness areas up and down the Sierra Nevada mountains.  Many of these locations have not changed or developed much and have remained rugged and wild throughout the history of America.  It baffles me how people assume that with all our technology and development, that these areas magically are transformed into a safe sterile environment without any dangers.  Some are very ignorant thinking this is just and extension of other fun places like an amusement park rather than the rugged, wild places they have and will continue to be.

 

I recall having several unexplained occurrences in the wild, but at that time, I never attributed them to a possible Bigfoot/Sasquatch subject.  I still don't know for sure, but they were very weird none the less.

 

I was alone in the Carson-Iceberg wilderness in Alpine County.  I had found a deer that appeared to be recently gut shot with its entrails protruding from the sternum area, but no obvious bullet entry point.  I also recall one leg was broken.  Past the deer and further up the mountain was an area of huge rock formations that I began to explore.  At some point in the middle of climbing through them a powerful sense of foreboding and the feeling of being watch flooded over me.  I can't explain it precisely, but it was not something I had felt before exactly like that!

 

It was so startling to me, I spun back against one huge rock, drew my 357 magnum pistol loaded with a hot hunting load and backed flat up against a large rock expecting some kind of attack.  This had never happened to me just like this.  I then began to ease back out of the formations scanning my perimeter.  I hit a clear area and began to sprint into clearer ground still expecting an attack from someone or something.  The feeling of danger never left until I was a mile or so away from the point.

 

I don't know what was there and can only guess what might have happened, but the memory of it has remained for nearly 30 years!  There are things out there that can and will hurt you if given the opportunity.  I can't say one way or another if the Bigfoot are responsible, but some of Native American history clearly records it can happen....people don't need to foolishly think "It can't happen to me".....


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#16 MIB

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:08 AM

Is it because these were not resolved until after he completed his research?

 

I believe they were resolved long before the research.   I don't know how much time passed, I think a fair bit, so its possible nobody went back to update the original case files.   That they were resolved was common local knowledge and could have been answered by asking around or reviewing local papers.

 

I found a bogus report on the NABS site they had swallowed hook, line, and sinker.  It was purportedly from a deputy following up on a report.  Problem was, there's no direct road access where he claimed to have driven.   It's across a federal wilderness.  "oops."  The route around north was blocked by snow as it is every winter, the route south goes out of state and loops back, not mentioned, and even at that, the low water bridge that has to be crossed to get to the location from that "loop back" had been pulled out for the winter.   It should not have been that hard to follow up on the report to validate the claim but obviously it was not done.

 

That kind of disconnect in stories known to people involved raises questions about whether there were similar disconnects with other cases.    It's possible the connections between the disappearances are not as strong as the books suggest.

 

MIB


Edited by MIB, 02 August 2013 - 07:35 AM.

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#17 Wag

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:34 PM

One theory on clothing removal has to do with the "Ottoman" kidnapping case in the 40's in Canada. (may not be all correct info there).

 

He said the BF took him in his sleeping bag, and he had his gun in his bag. The gun got him out of there and certain starvation or death.

 

So I would think it is possible that BF communicated this through the years, with local groups, and they started taking clothing off victims. But I'm not sure how far back a date clothing removal was reported.

 

Another theory is that, although we think of BF as 'naked' (please, I don't want to get another point over this, but it needs to be discussed) they are not, they are covered in hair.

 

A naked, hairless human body is a bit of a novelty, and it also disables us considerably. Even in summer time, it can get cold in many areas.

 

Child-nappings may have to do with a female BF using the child as a 'doll' or replacing a lost child, (strong maternal instinct).

 

As to weather, I'm sure they can tell when a storm is coming, helps hide footprints and smell.

 

They also see bright primary colors as novelty. Childrens toys are often found deep in the woods.

 

Just some thoughts on the matter.


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"BF are spies. When people are around and they can, they spy on them, and learn the language. They also see magazines, television, pictures so they know what cameras are. They see people take pictures of other people "posing', they can figure it out and they have." Millions of people over 70+ years with cameras in the field, Bigfoot know what cameras are. - WAG

#18 georgerm

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:19 AM

LET'S LOOK AT THIS FROM BFS POINT OF VIEW.    WE HAVE NEW ROADS AND TRAILS GOING INTO 'THEIR AREA'  ALL THE TIME.     THEY MUST HUNT AND PROVIDE FOR THEIR WIFE AND KIDS IN AREAS THEY CLAIM.     THEY DON'T WANT HUMANS SCREWING UP THEIR ANIMAL STALKING.     BESIDES, HUMANS PACK GUNS, AND THE BFS HAVE BEEN 'POT SHOT' TARGETS FOR YEARS.    BF IS PROBABLY HORRIFIED OF GUNS AND HATES HUMANS THAT CARRY THEM. 

 

WHEN WE WANDER INTO THEIR 'BACK YARDS' BECAUSE WE FAILED TO SEE THE 'NO TRESPASSING' SIGNS LIKE BROKEN TREES, THEY BECOME ANGRY AND ALARMED.   THEY WANT US OUT NOW.         MOST OF THE TIME THEY SCARE US OUT OF THEIR 'YARDS'.     SOME OF THE TIME THEY MIGHT HIT A TRESPASSER FROM BEHIND AT MOCK SPEED AND TAKE THEM OUT.     THE VICTIMS REMAINS MIGHT BE EATEN AND BURIED………….BRUTAL BUT UNDERSTANDABLE.

 

MY GUESS IS WHEN BFS ARE SHOWN RESPECT AND THEIR BOUNDARIES HONORED,  THEY BECOME MORE DOCILE.      BUT MOST OF US PROBABY DON'T KNOW WHEN WE WANDER INTO THEIR RED ZONE OR THEIR SQUARE MILE.  BASING THIS ON LOCAL REPORTS AND EYE WITNEESES,  MY GUESS IS A BFS 'BACK YARD' COULD BE A SQUARE MILE.    HERE IN SOUTHWEST OREGON, A BF CLAN WILL OCCUPY A 30 MILE BY 30 MILE TERRITORY BEFORE THE NEXT CLAN TAKES OVER.  THIS IS 900 SQUARE MILES, AND THEY OCCUPY THE MOST RUGGED 1 SQUARE MILE.    KIND OF A NEEDLE IN THE HAYSTACK.      CHANCES ARE, YOU WON’T WANDER IN THERE.        THIS IS A RELIEF.                 

 

WHEN SHOT OR SHOT AT, THEY BECOME HOMICIDAL FOR A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME.       THERE ARE MANY REPORTS OF BFS ATTACKING THOSE WHO WOUNDED THEM.      THE 411 BOOKS SEEM TO BE PUTTING 2 AND 2 TOGETHER.    WE NEED A NATIONAL MOVEMENT OF ‘RESPECT THE BIGFOOT’ AND NOT HUNT DOWN AND KILL BF SINCE IT KIDNAPS OUR KIDS…………………..JMHO

 

 

MIB, NICELY WRITTEN.

 

 

 

I've read all three.   I had a few questions for David P. along the way which he cleared up and one which he would not .. he would not specifically say what he thought was behind the disappearances.   I wish he would 'cause one of the places he said he'd never go alone for love or money and only go with a group with trepidation while heavily armed is ... exactly my favorite area to go alone.  "Yikes."     WHERE IS THIS?     It'd sure be nice to know "armed against WHAT?"   One of the things I do there, when possible, is hike off-trail cross country.   If something IS setting a trap (ala the Larry Kelm story), if I don't even know where I'm going, I'm going to be really hard to anticipate and ambush.  :)   "Color me paranoid."  

 

It appeared in the first two that David was, despite his insistence otherwise, pointing towards bigfoot.   Toward the end of the 3rd volume he began to draw parallels between specific cases and reported UFO abduction case symptoms.   I'm not sure if that's where he's headed, but it seemed that way.   

 

I don't believe all of the cases can be attributed to a single cause.   I think there are several different things at work.   One of them, honestly, is David not being thorough enough.  I've talked to S&R people who were on the original searches who say they have indeed been resolved, something David didn't mention.   But not all, not even close to all.  

 

One of the things that bothers me is a subset of the disappear-ees seem to be pretty seasoned outdoorsmen, life long hunters, backwoods hikers, etc.  I'm pretty good out there, but some of those guys are at least my equal.   They "got got."  Unless they were in denial about the existence of what got them which contributed to their downfall, whatever got them could get me.  That's a chilling wake-up call.

 

Of the cases that seem to be bigfoot related, only a very few point to clear malice.   The rest .. we could be misreading the motives badly.   It depends on what bigfoot truly is, emotionally / mentally / intellectually, not just biologically. 

 

There's no wrap up at the end, a comfortable "who done it."   Just questions.   However, knowing what the past cases look like, we might recognize what is happening if we seem to be getting into a parallel situation ourselves and do the unexpected rather than what we're being herded towards, thus survive.  That's the best thing I can come away with. 

 

I don't believe anything specific about them, they just add to my list of unanswered questions.

 

Though I don't believe these are predominantly bigfoot-related, I still suggest not reading this stuff right before a trip to the woods, leave yourself time to process and re-center.   

 

Just my opinion, though ... worth half what you paid for it.  :)

 

MIB


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#19 Wag

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:11 PM

^^^^
 Sorry but I disagree.
 
There are known areas where people pack in, and then suddenly leave all their gear. BF is well capable of infrasounding, etc BFing you out of an area. This has to do with sociopathic tendencies of the BF.
 
Now, there are chimps in the wild that have also attacked humans and maimed them pretty badly (as in dead) There may be some overlap in that area of behavior. Or it may be other motivations.
 
The few people who have escaped said they were thought of as 'pets', or some sort of simple social stimulation for the BF's. Others may have been food, others have been raped and killed, or visa.
 
Also, yes they fear guns, but I've heard they can keep comming back again and again, after the gun is fired.

Edited by Ginger, 09 August 2013 - 04:29 PM.
To Remove Quoted Content Directly Above

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"BF are spies. When people are around and they can, they spy on them, and learn the language. They also see magazines, television, pictures so they know what cameras are. They see people take pictures of other people "posing', they can figure it out and they have." Millions of people over 70+ years with cameras in the field, Bigfoot know what cameras are. - WAG

#20 leisureclass

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:48 PM

As was discussed ad nauseum in other threads - including one titled Missing 411 that's right at the top of the media page - the 411 books are a hodge-podge of sensationalism, shoddy research, and poor critical thinking.   There was no independent fact checking or editing, and they should be taken with, not a grain, but a dead sea of salt. 


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