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Dogmen And Bigfoot, Friends Or Foes?


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#1 Lake County Bigfooot

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:38 AM

I have recently been thinking about the reports of Dogmen, or snouted looking humanoids that resemble Sasquatch is certain aspects

and not at all in others.  The book "Real Wolfmen: True Encounters in Modern America", written by the foremost expert in the subject

Linda S. Godfrey, describes them as having dog type legs, with the break you see at the ankle of say a coyote, having a torso more

similar to an ape or human with arms and hands, but having large clawed fingers, and having a dog, wolf type head.  Their behaviors resemble that of Sasquatch, but seem a bit more aggressive.  The exhibit both bipedal and quad re pedal abilities, seem to like to steal road kill for food.  My interest is all the more pertinent due to living a mere 20 miles south of Brey Road, which is the basic birth place of

the modern sightings of the creature, though it has been seen over the whole of the country.  Sightings of this creature number far less

than traditional Sasquatch, whether your referring to the eastern or western variety.  They also seem to live in proximity to eachother, but

also have a sort of dividing line, which has been noted by Linda during her investigations.  There is also a reference to one dogmen being

found dismembered in Alabama, which had been torn to pieces by obviously something more powerful, which begs the question of whether Sasquatch, being the dog lovers that they are, get along with these kind, that seem to be competing with them for the same

niche.  I am suggesting that Sasquatch may have developed there animosity with dogs from interactions with this beast.  I would like

to here your thoughts, knowledge or experience.  My own backyard visitations with what I presume are regular Squatch will be a bit more

interesting after reading this book....


Edited by Lake County Bigfooot, 05 March 2014 - 09:44 AM.

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#2 NathanFooter

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:11 AM

 I have taken several reports where the witnesses called what they seen a Dogman but upon investigation and detailed notes being taken found that they where describing a sasquatch. One witness in particular comes to mind, he said he had heard the term Dogmen, wolf man and werewolf from TV and story books and so he labeled what he seen because it was more familiar to him than the presumed PNW Bigfoot.

 

 Upon showing him drawings I had done based completely upon his description of what he had seen he said that the depiction was exactly what it looked like, I then held up a couple Bigfoot drawings and he said those matched as well.  

 

 I think Dogmen are more familiar for people living here in the eastern US { where most of the reports are that I am aware of } because it is easy to come across werewolf and wolf man stuff on TV and headline movies.  So when some people get a glimpse of massive hairy creature about 7 feet tall cross the road or striding at dusk past the creek, the Dogmen becomes the guilty party. 

 

 In the PNW Bigfoot is the automatic answer to the tall biped reports that do not fit the known wildlife.


Edited by NathanFooter, 05 March 2014 - 10:15 AM.

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#3 JDL

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:13 AM

I've never seen a "Dogman" and thought that they were just a regional moniker for bigfoot, but a couple of people I respect on this forum have stated that they are a distinct variation of bigfoot.  I'd like to hear their opinions.


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#4 Scout1959

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:41 AM

Well as it has been shown over and over again eye witnesses are very unreliable.  This becomes even more so in situations of stress or where there was only a fleeting glimpse of whatever the creature was.  Top this off in that our brains try very hard to make sense of what it's seeing and is adept at filling in gaps leaves us with no way to know for sure what anyone saw.

 

I don't honestly see how it's possible to state with any conviction that there are multiple varieties of something that is unproven to be at all...


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#5 Lake County Bigfooot

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:18 PM

Nathan I agree that many of the sightings are just the normal eastern squatch, however some of them describe the creature in terms

that seem quite a bit different including skinny canid legs, with the backward break that looks like a knee but I guess it is part of the

ankle apparatus.  Then you have the pointy ears and protruding snout, as well as seemingly different prints.  I will post what I can find

to describe the difference.  Tails are described in some of the accounts, but the humanoid torso and arms like a squatch, otherwise I would

say if at all accurate, these seem like distinct types of creatures.  I am quite sure this artist rendition took liberties, but the canine legs features

are what I wanted to point out.

Attached Files


Edited by Lake County Bigfooot, 05 March 2014 - 12:22 PM.

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"I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.” ― Edgar Allan Poe

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” Albert Einstein

 


#6 JDL

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:31 PM

I'm talking about folks who have indicated that they have had close contact with both types and that they are distinctly different in appearance and behavior. 

 

Scout, don't make the mistake of dismissing all witness accounts simply because some witness accounts are fleeting and misinterpreted.  I guarantee you that when one stands directly in front of you for 45 seconds at a distance of 35 feet in the middle of the afternoon with nothing between it and you but sagebrush, you will get a very good look at it and you will be convinced.


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#7 NathanFooter

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 02:36 PM

 I am not saying anything in absolutes, I am just going with what my experience has been when it comes to Dogmen encounters at this point until there is stronger evidence and a working hypothesis.


Edited by NathanFooter, 05 March 2014 - 02:40 PM.

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#8 cwittler

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:01 PM

FYI...   

 

http://www.haveyouse...iscreature.com/


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#9 Lake County Bigfooot

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:17 PM

Not putting you on the spot or anything Nathan, just trying to get some response to the odd sightings that seem to describe something else.

I too have no personal experience with the creature, just that I live close to the mother load of sightings. 

 

The picture of the snouted looking squatch holding a dog is certainly interesting, but with that one it is really

hard to tell if that is more of a trick of the lighting or really a dog face, thanks for sharing it cwittler

 

You know how in ancient Egypt they had a deity with a dogs head and human body, I wonder where

that image came from.  Maybe they summoned the dark creature into reality....just an aside....

 

I guess what really interests me, beside the fact of them possibly being a different cryptoid all together,

is...How do they interact with the normal type of squatches, or do they interact at all, and is there any

incidences or evidence to show how they get along so to speak.  Again I make reference to the Dogmen

dismembered body from Linda Godfrey's book, that seemed to have been dispatched by something a

bit more powerful than itself.


Edited by Lake County Bigfooot, 05 March 2014 - 03:27 PM.

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"I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.” ― Edgar Allan Poe

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” Albert Einstein

 


#10 DWA

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:21 PM

Well as it has been shown over and over again eye witnesses are very unreliable.  This becomes even more so in situations of stress or where there was only a fleeting glimpse of whatever the creature was.  Top this off in that our brains try very hard to make sense of what it's seeing and is adept at filling in gaps leaves us with no way to know for sure what anyone saw.

 

You'll never know for sure what anyone saw from their report alone.  (Why courts take it into evidence and don't declare it proof.)  Just the report leaves you with ...well, just that, one story.  This is why I always say that what impresses me about eyewitness testimony is both its volume and - despite contentions otherwise - its sheer consistency, something that can only be grasped by reading lots of them.

 

I don't honestly see how it's possible to state with any conviction that there are multiple varieties of something that is unproven to be at all...

 

I'd agree that we can't conclude, and I'd prefer following up - as NAWAC is doing - to endlessly speculating.  "Dogmen," as I think Nathan is finding out, are more like "red herring" to me.


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Good science is always open-minded, and the history of science is one of surprises and overturnings. Science is nothing but careful thinking, and careful thinking encouraging an appreciation of the complexity of the world. The complexity encourages us to maintain several possibilities at once. In a single lifetime, we may have no way to remove the ambiguities from these possibilities. A scientist may tend to favour one story over the others, but will always be careful to concede uncertainty and maintain a willingness to change the balance with new, incoming information.  - David Eagleman, neuroscientist at Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, "Why I am a ‘possibilian’," New Scientist, 25/09/10
What I often tell people is that if you immerse yourself in the field, you'd be blown away by the amount of evidence.  They just get pieces of the puzzle. There's a literal ton of eyewitness accounts, foot casts, hair samples and the like. It's a situation where from a mathematical standpoint, it's highly probable that these creatures exist in North America, but it's also statistically impossible that nothing is out there. It's a weird juxtaposition of highly unlikely realities, but one of them has to be right. - Ken Gerhard
 

#11 ItsAsquatch

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:33 PM

I thought about this question after listening to a show where coonbo talked about a report he took of a dogman and he said its tracks were different enough from other boogers that he believed the witnesses..

I think they probably dont get along.. the dogmen are smaller in numbers i would think.
I also dont believe all the reports of dogmen are just mis id's and just a regular squatch. I believe there are snouted ones
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#12 SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:40 PM

If the dogman exists, then they must be far fewer in number than the classic bigfoot.    While we do not have many BF photos we do have some.    I do not recall ever seeing even a poor photo of the dogman.       I have wondered about the recent DNA findings from Sykes about an ancient large bear in Asia that had been confused with the Yeti.   Perhaps that thing was more bipedal than the garden variety North American bear and migrated to this continent.     Could a descendent of that be the dogman?    That would explain it's nasty disposition if it was some unknown variant of a bear.   Nasty tempered bears often charge on two feet.   What witness reports we have of the dogman sure points to it being a different species.   They seem too different to be the same species. 


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#13 TedSallis

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 04:50 PM

If the dogman exists, then they must be far fewer in number than the classic bigfoot.    While we do not have many BF photos we do have some.    I do not recall ever seeing even a poor photo of the dogman.       I have wondered about the recent DNA findings from Sykes about an ancient large bear in Asia that had been confused with the Yeti.   Perhaps that thing was more bipedal than the garden variety North American bear and migrated to this continent.     Could a descendent of that be the dogman?    That would explain it's nasty disposition if it was some unknown variant of a bear.   Nasty tempered bears often charge on two feet.   What witness reports we have of the dogman sure points to it being a different species.   They seem too different to be the same species. 

 

 

Here is a purported photo of one...

http://www.haveyouse...iscreature.com/


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#14 VAfooter

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:21 PM

If they exist, then I think they are a totally different species. They are far fewer in number, seem to live in a much smaller geographic region (thank goodness!), and are much more aggressive and hostile based on reports. Personally, I am not sure what to make of those reports.

 

To answer the original question, in the areas where both inhabit, I think they compete for the same food sources. Thus they are probably at best uneasy rivals and outright enemies at worst.


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#15 Incorrigible1

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:07 PM

......There is also a reference to one dogmen being

found dismembered in Alabama, which had been torn to pieces by obviously something more powerful, which begs the question of whether Sasquatch, being the dog lovers that they are, get along with these kind, that seem to be competing with them for the same

niche.  I am suggesting that Sasquatch may have developed there animosity with dogs from interactions with this beast.  I would like

to here your thoughts, knowledge or experience.  My own backyard visitations with what I presume are regular Squatch will be a bit more

interesting after reading this book....

A dismembered dogman? A carcass not tendered to science? A golden opportunity squandered. Naturally.

 

Sasquatch as dog lovers? And somehow, the human species equating the "dogman" species as similar to dogs, the sasquatch picks up on our association and also equates the dogman species somehow as a dog, too? Wow.

 

Somehow, sasquatch "may have developed there (sic) animosity with dogs from interactions" with an entirely different species, but one that humans call "dogman," and so bigfoot also associate dogs with the dogman species.

 

Ay yi yi yi.


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#16 hiflier

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:39 PM

Hello Incorrigible1,

Yeah. It seems very implausible for such a creature to have evolved from.....WHAT? I have to be honest though, the photo in the link is pretty disturbing upon closer inspection. I just don't know enough about this stuff to even speculate. The satellite map shows buildings. I should go back and read the full article to see if anyone in the vicinity reported a missing dog. Looks to be a short-haired one- a yellow lab type perhaps? Bizarre pic.

Edited by hiflier, 05 March 2014 - 06:40 PM.

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#17 antfoot

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:34 PM

If the dogman exists, then they must be far fewer in number than the classic bigfoot.    While we do not have many BF photos we do have some.    I do not recall ever seeing even a poor photo of the dogman.       I have wondered about the recent DNA findings from Sykes about an ancient large bear in Asia that had been confused with the Yeti.   Perhaps that thing was more bipedal than the garden variety North American bear and migrated to this continent.     Could a descendent of that be the dogman?    That would explain it's nasty disposition if it was some unknown variant of a bear.   Nasty tempered bears often charge on two feet.   What witness reports we have of the dogman sure points to it being a different species.   They seem too different to be the same species. 

An interesting hypothesis. However, bears have flat feet, not the digitigrade type that are reported in Dogman reports.


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#18 Kiwicraig

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 01:25 AM

Here's a theory for you- lemurs evolved 90 to 75 million years ago on the Madagascar India portions of Gondwanaland that broke away and drifted north and west. Lemurs invaded Africa (not vice versa) and continued evolving on India as it drifted north. The large dogman type lemur was the result (a similar lemur actually did evolve simultaneously in Madagascar). These dogman lemurs eventually gained access to the continents 50 mya when India connected and created the Himalayas. They were the only Indian lemurs to survive the influx of the now more highly evolved primates spilling out of Africa and have gone on to dwell in the shadows of virtually every country in the world.

 

Would make a great start to a movie!


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#19 NDT

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 04:45 AM

For my money, Dog Men are misidentified BF, end of story. Same with Rugaru down in the swamps of La.  I will admit that Coonbo has dug up some interesting stuff on protruding snouted boogers in his travels, and as always I bow to Tim's wisdom. 

 

As to the original question, if there are two species that need the same food in their area of habitat to survive, by definition they are in conflict with each other for that food.  Whether or not that conflict escalates into combat for the goodies is the question.  At the risk of sounding non-committal, sometimes it does unless it doesn't.  Nature tends to lend a Darwinian hand in these things; the species better adapted tend to flourish while the other declines and may even go extinct...


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#20 JDL

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 06:52 AM

The photo of the one with the dog looks baboonish.

 

I think of the video below when I see the photo and tend to think the picture of the dogman with the dog under its arm is photoshopped.  The features on the dog seem clearer than those on the dogman, which seems inconsistent to me.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=U2lSZPTa3ho


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