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Bigfoot & Native Americans...


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#41 wudewasa

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 07:37 PM

Tsul Kalu has different pronunciations according to which dialect and also fact Cherokee will sit and argue with one another of the correct pronunciation anyway. The way I know is "su-hl-kaw-lu" or "su-kaw-lu". Sorry I don't know a good way of writing how it sounds much of the language has constanants that are sorta slurred together and spoken nasally. And I have forgotten a lot of the language I used to know. Tsul Kalu is said to mean "slant-eyed giant" but more correctly it translates into "He has them slanting" which is assumed to mean his eyes. Kata or agadoli means eyes and isn't included. There is another name for him that means "Sloped headed monster" but I don't remember now the words in Cherokee. I've never heard Kecleh-Kudleh before. NunYunaWi is Stone Man and is not Bigfoot, he is considered a spiritual being and related to the beings who control the directions and physical forces of the Earth similar to the celestial beings mentioned in Genesis. I think the Cherokee story about Standing Indian, NC sounds like a Bigfoot.

Did you know Tsul Kalu is also the name the Cherokee use for Goliath? I was told one reason so many Cherokee easily converted to early Christianity is because they thought the story of David and Goliath must be about a young boy being attacked by a Bigfoot. They could relate to this story as it was something that was a part of their reality and something they were fearful of. So when the Bible was translated this is why Tsul Kalu is used. ^_^


I have heard of the Slant Eyed Giant, also known as Judaculla. He is associated with the area around Devi'ls Courthouse in NC and a rock with carvings on it. I have asked several Cherokees about his connection with bigfoot, and they do not view the two beings as similar. Even after talking about the subject with one of their elders, the man could no trace any legends to that of bigfoot. Here is the best that he could relate about hairy people: http://www.indians.o...er/cherbear.htm

As far as the tale of Standing indian, my friend was taught to refer to him as Standing Man by his elders. The story that was passed to him was a different version. I believe it involved giant yellowjackets as the sky monster. I will ask him about the story and see if it has any connection to bigfoot.

Darkwing, true. Western Band Cherokees have evolved separately from their eastern kin who held out in the NC mountains and other areas. The eastern people are where I get most of my information from. OK has a history of bigfoot activity, so it would make sense that your people have a more direct connection with bigfoot stories than my eastern friends do.

Edited by wudewasa, 22 July 2011 - 07:42 PM.

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#42 Tsalagi

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:12 PM

As far as the tale of Standing indian, my friend was taught to refer to him as Standing Man by his elders. The story that was passed to him was a different version. I believe it involved giant yellowjackets as the sky monster. I will ask him about the story and see if it has any connection to bigfoot.


This is a different story than the yellowjackets. There is a place near the Nantahala river referred to as Standing Indian which is a rock bald. There is an old story that speaks of a "tall stranger" that stood up on the rock looking out. The elders I've talked to used the term stranger to refer to people of a different race when speaking of early encounters with non-Indians. I don't think they would bother calling someone tall unless they seemed really tall especially when viewed from that distance up on the rock. Hence I think it was a Sasquatch.
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#43 wudewasa

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:37 PM

Tsalagi,

I'm referring to the story of Standing Man near Franklin, NC and Wayah Bald. Is this the same area that you are referring to?

Have you ever heard of this book? http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0935741100 I have used it extensively to visit the sites listed in it.
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#44 Mulder

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 09:05 PM

It must vary from region to region and tribe to tribe regarding their own histories with the wild men of the forest.


Based on my admittedly not-comprehensive reading on the subject, it seems to me that woman/child abduction features most strongly in the American PNW, western Coastal Canada, and Alaska.
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“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." - Galileo

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"I would remind you to notice where the claim of consensus is invoked. Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough." - Michael Chrichton

#45 BigSlick

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 09:12 PM

Ithink it might have been in Raincoast Sasquatch that I read that the Chehalis band told J Burns that they viewed the sasquatch as another tribe of hairy men who did not use bows but were very hard to kill. Burns is the teacher on the reservation who in the 1920s changed the indian word sasq'ets into sasquatch.
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#46 Dudlow

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 09:35 PM

Based on my admittedly not-comprehensive reading on the subject, it seems to me that woman/child abduction features most strongly in the American PNW, western Coastal Canada, and Alaska.


B) You may be right, 'Mulder', but I can't help also wondering about those rural folks who have mysteriously disappeared from the eastern Provinces here in Canada; and there have been quite a number of them over the years.

Going back to the early 20th Century, but without going into the sordid details concerning how the native communities were treated back then, I have my doubts about whether the First Nations peoples would be willing to share or even report such BF-related kidnappings or incidents to a government authority which disparaged most of what the natives had to say, anyway. That would be a tough position to be in; victimized without recourse by an almost invincible enemy and disparaged by the only source of protection.

Just throwing it out there. I'm sure we'll never know the truth of it.
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#47 John T

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 09:39 PM

When I was a kid, a couple Quinaults shared stories around my family's dinner table. Perhaps the lesson to be learned is that sharing food and respect enables the sharing of experiences and knowledge. This forum seems to often lack the respect componet, so necessary for building the trust required before sharing can begin. I'd suggest that if you want the Native American/First Nations perspective, establish contact with some tribal members and then WORK to gain some "street cred" with them. I doubt this will be a quickie internet answer to your question, but answers could be obtained if you are willing, diligent, and above all COOL.
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#48 Mulder

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 12:25 AM

B) You may be right, 'Mulder', but I can't help also wondering about those rural folks who have mysteriously disappeared from the eastern Provinces here in Canada; and there have been quite a number of them over the years.


Eastern Canada and N Eastern US native traditions (again, from my incomplete readings) run more towards the "Wendigo" variety, which is more of a general "maneater" as opposed to a specific kidnapper of women and children.
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“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." - Galileo

"I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled." - Michael Chrichton

"I would remind you to notice where the claim of consensus is invoked. Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough." - Michael Chrichton

#49 BuzzardEater

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 02:18 AM

You know I don't recall any stories of the FN people hunting and shooting at them? did they? That must of been a shocker when the white race from Europe started shooting at them. Did the fear of gunpowder weapons help by keeping them at bay? (No more wife and kidnappings or poaching) So they retreated deeper into the mountains and woods and away from all races.

just wondering

tracker, Posted Image



I wonder if guns had as large an effect as disease? I've heard (from Elders in the Carrier language via translation)that the Sasquatch people were hit hard by Smallpox and nearly finished off by Spanish Flu. It was during the post WWI era that thier numbers were especially low and they anecdotally took to kidnappings. They were described to me as "only a handful" surviving during this time.

I think NA stories vary from family to family, as well. In the same village there will be people who advocate shooting on sight and people who want to offer food to them. I think the majority of people I have talked to want to avoid them. I have never been able to raise a carload of people to go looking for them. I have been told many times that if you go looking for Sasquatch, they might find you.

Your point about thier withdrawal is well taken. I do get the overall impression that they avoid us like the plague. Perhaps we are.
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#50 tracker

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 04:33 AM

Based on my admittedly not-comprehensive reading on the subject, it seems to me that woman/child abduction features most strongly in the American PNW, western Coastal Canada, and Alaska.


That's my read on it too. Those darn PNW ones, Posted Image
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#51 bipedalist

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 04:48 AM

This is a different story than the yellowjackets. There is a place near the Nantahala river referred to as Standing Indian which is a rock bald. There is an old story that speaks of a "tall stranger" that stood up on the rock looking out. The elders I've talked to used the term stranger to refer to people of a different race when speaking of early encounters with non-Indians. I don't think they would bother calling someone tall unless they seemed really tall especially when viewed from that distance up on the rock. Hence I think it was a Sasquatch.


So there is no mistaken they are the reigning residents as I have heard of non-public reports of those who have heard the cries/bellows of Sasquatch in that general area near Standing Indian. As the crow flies it is not that far from Northern Georgia mtns with sighting reports.
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#52 tracker

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 04:52 AM

I wonder if guns had as large an effect as disease? I've heard (from Elders in the Carrier language via translation)that the Sasquatch people were hit hard by Smallpox and nearly finished off by Spanish Flu. It was during the post WWI era that thier numbers were especially low and they anecdotally took to kidnappings. They were described to me as "only a handful" surviving during this time.

I think NA stories vary from family to family, as well. In the same village there will be people who advocate shooting on sight and people who want to offer food to them. I think the majority of people I have talked to want to avoid them. I have never been able to raise a carload of people to go looking for them. I have been told many times that if you go looking for Sasquatch, they might find you.

Your point about thier withdrawal is well taken. I do get the overall impression that they avoid us like the plague. Perhaps we are.


Very interesting post, I always wondered if they were susceptible to those types of harsh diseases. Hey you don't need a car full, just go out alone like me. There's a better chance of running into them that way. They don't seem to like being tracked though. Which is too much like being hunted I might add. JMO Posted Image
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"tracker,you make it look so easy! HOW do you get them on video?Are they just use to you being around?"par5sn2

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#53 Tsalagi

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 09:06 AM

So there is no mistaken they are the reigning residents as I have heard of non-public reports of those who have heard the cries/bellows of Sasquatch in that general area near Standing Indian. As the crow flies it is not that far from Northern Georgia mtns with sighting reports.


Its my understanding the general consensus among the local Natives has always been Sasquatch reigns any location he is spotted in as it is his territory and one is not suppose to hunt in his hunting grounds. There are numerous places in NC which have a long history of sightings.
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#54 georgerm

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 09:25 AM

Its my understanding the general consensus among the local Natives has always been Sasquatch reigns any location he is spotted in as it is his territory and one is not suppose to hunt in his hunting grounds. There are numerous places in NC which have a long history of sightings.



This helps explain the savage charges BF makes on various hikers who leave the area terrified. The hiker accidently walked into BF designated hunting area. BF is the original terrorist.


Other times BF just walks away which could indicate the human is not in its hunting territory or only big males do the charging.

Are single hikers picked off for dinner by older BFs who are incapable of catching game?
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#55 SweetSusiq

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 10:48 AM

This helps explain the savage charges BF makes on various hikers who leave the area terrified. The hiker accidently walked into BF designated hunting area. BF is the original terrorist.


Other times BF just walks away which could indicate the human is not in its hunting territory or only big males do the charging.

Are single hikers picked off for dinner by older BFs who are incapable of catching game?

Are you guys being funny? I have never heard this info before.
Single hikers for dinner? Are you serious?
I can see it now:

Hiking guide to equipment you will need in this area before you go hiking:

1) Bazooka

2) Machine gun

3) A squadron of armed to the teeth navy Seals.

4) Army tanks well armored and loaded for bear..

5) Sturdy shoes to better run in..

6)Please have all of your legal needs met, and an updated will.

Otherwise, Enjoy your hike! Hope that we will see you again. :o
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#56 Dudlow

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 12:05 PM

The hiker accidently walked into BF designated hunting area.


B) This could also account for the not so unusual reports of BF picking up a freshly shot deer/elk, etc. and running off with it before the hunter can make his way over to retrieve the kill.
- Dudlow
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#57 adam777

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 12:38 PM

Is it really that impossible to fathom a sick/injured/old Bigfoot desperate for food attacking a human? From what I've read many native tribes were afraid of them, the legends of forbidden plateau here on Vancouver Island are that it got its name because it was somewhere where Sasquatch lived and it should be avoided, I've heard stories of other tribes with similar viewpoints. I have never seen one of these animals and I will say that the sighting reports are mostly in favour of calm observatory behaviour as opposed to aggression, and very few reports claim to see Sasquatch preying on anything, But couldn't you say the same for a bear or cougar? I've encountered hundreds of bears on hikes through the wilderness and not once has one been remotely threatening, most of the time they quickly clear off and out of the area. But they do sometimes attack people. Perhaps my lack of experience with Bigfoot is causing me to view them from a more animalistic side, But any successful organism would have to be an oppertunist, even some humans resort to cannibalism in dire situations, why is it so hard for some to believe a bigfoot might prey on something unusual as well.

I'm in no way saying I think this animal is a dangerous man eating monster, I believe they avoid people when possible and on most chance encounters seem to either be curious or caught off gaurd and that they mostly seem to be gentle and non threatening, on the occassions where they are threatening it is usually to deter people with screams and rock throwing, sometimes stalking and thats seems to be as severe as it gets minus a couple of older reports.
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#58 SweetSusiq

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 05:19 PM

:ph34r: What is in the older reports?
Is it bad news, scary, or what? :unsure:
Do Tell Please.. :blink:
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#59 SweetSusiq

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 05:39 PM

This helps explain the savage charges BF makes on various hikers who leave the area terrified. The hiker accidently walked into BF designated hunting area. BF is the original terrorist.


Other times BF just walks away which could indicate the human is not in its hunting territory or only big males do the charging.

Are single hikers picked off for dinner by older BFs who are incapable of catching game?

Would there not be more reports of people, couples, or small groups coming up missing if older BF find hikers easier prey? :(
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#60 adam777

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 06:54 PM

By the older reports I was pointing to the fact that several of the early reports of Sasquatches treat them in a more ferocious light. This may be because many of them are from newspapers being cast in the glow of a hideos monster news story or wild cannibal of the woods kind of spin. The ones I was referring to more so were The Teddy Roosevelt story about the one man who is bitten in the neck and killed and the Ape Canyon story as told by Fred Beck in which several of the Apes seige their cabin.

It seems as though a larger percentage of the earlier reports were of a more hostile nature, this could stem from the fact that there are fewer reports from 70+ years ago then there have been in recent time and also the fact that maybe people just seeing these animals over 100 years ago was less likely to be reported, or at least reported to anyone who may have kept a permanent record, where as a hostile encounter would be more likely to be remembered, passed on and possibly reported.

Edited by adam777, 23 July 2011 - 06:55 PM.

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