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About joebeelart

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    Wandering the hills.

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  • Have you ever had an encounter with a sasquatch-like creature?

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  1. scottv & norseman : Nice posts. 200 meters way too close; think about 650' without calculator / 5280 in mile. From living on ranch, and also having deer and elk use our mineral blocks, have a reasonably good idea of spacing, but suggest you call a ranch supply store and ask their recommendation for mineral block spacing; or maybe it's on the web. Depends on rain, etc. Part of what happens is the salt leaches down and when the block is gone and the cows out of the pasture, they will attack the soil for trace amounts. Have seen "substantial" holes. Also your state F&W might set out mineral blocks. F&W hell on them as bow hunter baits, but maybe they will give you a spacing suggestion if properly approached. Finally, where set the game camera? Say allow for time blocks when animals, and various animals approach vs. sun in sky. Just for fun, say dedicated Bigfooter approaches mineral block in National Forest to retrieve trail cam. Just for fun, what would be your reaction when a USFS law enforcement officer walks out of the brush and asks if you put the block out, and waves a trail cam he's confiscated. "Is this your camera?" Tap dancing on forest duff leaves no sound, or very little.
  2. In reference to Norseman's comments: One of the techniques I often use when taking people up the hill is to show them a deer track. Doe, buck, yearling? But most importantly, if we are not in snow, I ask them to show me the other three tracks that match the one observed. And, after that, to show me not the next set of tracks made by the four hooves, but the third set in succession. It is rare that a new observer can make it that far along a track line. I'm just mentioning this in regards to the discussion of track rarity and repetitiveness in regards to hooved animals. With luck we'll find a bear track. In our area of interest, depending on the population cycle, in the Cascades there is about one bear per two square miles during population peaks and one bear per four - five square miles at the bottom of the cycle. So, the idea is to tell people that bears are fairly common and that we should "easily" find a track in three-four hours of wandering. Often, if there is no snow, no bear track is found, mainly because new people don't go near water much, they like to stay "up high" where they can see things and not fight brush. Then, the exercise in finding succeeding bear tracks in the track line proves much more difficult than with hooved animals. Now, let me go "wild" and estimate one Bigfoot per 10-20 square miles depending on habitat. How many track finds and how often? I feel successful if I'm up 20 plus days a year, spend a lot of time afoot and find one unmistakable Bigfoot track. Two or three in a line is a very rare treat. So, I'm just saying that a "researcher" must persevere and not go up the hill to find Bigfoot tracks. You better have something else on your alleged mind. When I had the film crew from Missouri up for several days and they stumbled on their first track -- which was obviously left as a marker of some kind -- they were astounded. It was in mud beside a creek next to a game trail crossing. I was over a little ridge so by the time I got there the fellow carrying their "black" box had slipped and ruined it, but fortunately they had photographed it. Well, enough rambling for now except for one more "thing." The story behind the photo: Managed to stay dry that night with only a tarp, but I was alone so that made it easier. This point is about 15 miles {no exaggeration} from the nearest often used road, and by often, since I often camp near it, I mean 1 truck per hour per summer day, maybe 1-2 during the night. That night, after the rain, one came around and walked around camp leaving several tracks. So the moral of the story is to go to where they are and let them come to you.
  3. Tracks are problematic given time afield, season, weather, etc. BFRO has it's reputation, but in general has done good work: Excellent website in my opinion. Thought you folks might like a look at the Skookum site one year after the event. I dug out two pails of soil to send to Loren Coleman for an exhibit. The trees are bigger now. On the other side of the road is about an 8 ft. bank depending on where. For strange reasons "kids" still drive through the hole when it's wet. As you can imagine, when dry, the soil is not conducive for imbedded tracks. Since it was wet at the time of the Skookum cast, you can make your own judgment as to tracks. Lots of elk and bear in the area. One associate got a clear view of a wolf from his mountain bike.
  4. Hi Twist and all: No apologies needed. As with all good investigations, repeated questions over time bring out new "stuff." Indeed, Peter Byrne, whom I admire, but do not "follow," uses "the same question" technique repeatedly, over years when he can, to evaluate witness responses. But, it's hardly a new investigative technique. As far as I'm concerned, the process of Bigfoot's creation of the Skookum Cast impressions is a mystery. I've seen the BRFO pictorial explanation, but that seems too elaborate to me. {I have an explanation for development of the pictorial involving anatomists, imagists, bongs, and some other factors that are undoubtedly unfounded.} So, let me say in seriousness; if it were not for three things: {1} Thom Powell and Rick Noll saying the Skookum Cast is the real deal ... and Thom placed the apples at what? About 3:30 AM? {2} An absence of elk prints in the "right" places, and {3} The hair patterns, which puzzled Dr. Fish, I would be very skeptical about the origins of the Skookum Cast.
  5. Hello P-G & Starchunk: False hope is all we have to work with, aside sightings, DNA, photographs, tracks, feces analysis, hair analysis, historical records, etc. What it comes down to is: "Are you sure there are no type specimen's?" Notice, I'm not saying "there are no type specimens." The real question is, "where are they?" Anyway, back to topic: As far as an elk lay, I was so familiar with the area that on Sunday after the find, I was at Thom Powell's house. Matt Moneymaker was there. A big topo map was on the wall. After hearing a description of the find ... and seeing no pictures ... I pointed to the exact spot where the cast was made. That means I've spent days and days and nights and nights up there, often watching elk, especially through binoculars. I've also spent considerable time at the National Elk Refuge in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. And, I grew up on a ranch. So, I'm fairly familiar with how four legged grass / shrub eating animals behave. If I thought the Skookum Cast was an elk lay, I won't read this tread or support the claim. The simple fact is, all else discarded, there are no elk hoof prints anywhere near where they should be from a rising elk, in the cast or pictures taken on site. Something else had to have made the impressions. Comment: While there is always elk hair in a herd area, mainly it's on shrubs and trees where elk and cows rub, or on the ground in spring when they shed. Generally in the fall not a lot of hair on the ground from cows or elk, that' I've noticed. Anyway, you are right. "False hope," so far, after 24 years, still false hope. Keep in mind I spend money, lots of money on field research. All I've got for it so far are good, healthy times in the high country, my book The Oregon Bigfoot Highway, and a few valued friends. And, I get to wonder about why people who think "false hope" would waste time on Bigfoot. Maybe you know something you are not sharing. Well, in finality, I do respect your commentary.
  6. One of the keys to the Skookum cast is in the hair patterns. They are imbedded throughout and do not match elk hair, especially pre-winter elk hair. Dr. Fish looked into this and was going to write on it before his untimely passing. He and I spent over an hour at the { 2002 ? } Bellingham Conference comparing enlarged photos I had taken of a butt imprint high up the Clackamas to the hair patterns in the casting. Between us we gathered a considerable number of skin/hair samples from hunters, road kill, and taxidermist shops. None of the hair patterns we examined matched. As far as the banter back and forth, it's OK. Same stuff as 20 years ago. Bigfoot is like UFOs and ghosts; people see them, have for centuries, but no science behind them that the general public knows about. Regards, Joe Ps: I'm currently editing a new book that may help to explain "our dilemma." Good stuff.
  7. Hey Joe, Sterling, BobbyO, Wes has a question of you on the thread.   What do you mean by all SW WA plots frozen?  



    1. joebeelart


      Hi Sterling:  Sorry, haven't checked my messages in moons.

      Man, have I been wanting to talk to you.  The direct answer is that the map locked.  Just a { not long } ago I couldn't make it work.  I downloaded a new Acrobat file, so maybe soon.   Call when you get a chance.  Today no good.  Tomorrow good, as well as mornings most of next week.  Thanks, Joe   503.557.7569 

    2. bipedalist


      Will try to stay in touch.   I will try a phone call in am

  8. It would be great if the SW WA season plots could be frozen. Just a thought.
  9. To those who are concerned. I just have not had the time to get into the storage boxes to find the "hair" photos. Sorry. That is on my list. Joe
  10. Well, have just spent half an hour trying to find the computer file / pictures of the Granite Peaks skids. No luck. Must have been on the old computer which "burnt." That means I have to go through my print files to find the original photos and then scan them. I will do that as soon as I can because I think the hair pattern comparison is important. Also, don't install a backup hard drive in the same case and with the same power source as the main drive. When they cook, they cook together.
  11. Hello Night Walker: Very good observations. The animal did not skid down the slope on its bottom. It sat, then stood. The slope was very steep. There were a few hairs on a bush part-way down the slope we collected, but they have been lost. The "butt crack" is out of the picture to the bottom. A bit of the ridge seems to show in the photograph, to me. The left "cheek" impact / pressure ridge is right of the words "Butt imprint &" and above the yellow line. Will post more photos later today.
  12. I'll post the other photos in a day or so. I don't have the "hand mark" photos; think Jean from France has them. Yes, we have the "running steps." The "butt" imprint is below the "fonts" reading "marks and hair marks." It was very impressive and very large. This photo shows only about 1/3 of the "butt" imprint. The pressure marks on the top of the imprint just left of the word "marks" were most impressive on site. Actually, the size of the "butt imprint" was stunning. The "butt crack" imprint is just under the 'hair marks' notation and is partially visible. Later, Joe Beelart, West Linn, Oregon The most important thing is not our photos. The most important thing is to compare these photos and the ones to follow with the hair patterns in the Skookum Cast. Basics are essential and mostly overlooked in field research.
  13. I'll post photos of the hair imprints and give a short story about them this week sometime. No, we didn't see what made the imprints, but the slide marks were so fresh that grains of soil were still falling from them. At first we attributed them to bear, but the running steps at the base of the slide had no claw marks in them and were human shaped with the m. break evident. Basically what happened was we were on a hair pin turn high in the Clackamas. There is a huckleberry field at the apex of the turn. We scared something out of the field. It jumped over the side and made a huge butt print with hair marks. Then it skidded down a steep slope leaving two skid marks, no evidence of four superimposed. At the bottom of the slope it turned left, ran across soft dirt. entered the logging road and amazingly, seems to have dived into tall fir trees in the very steep ravine on the other side of the logging road indicating to us, that it was comfortable using trees. A4-422__Granite_Peak_start_of_skid_left.TIF The hair marks are faintly visible in the bottom part of this photo. When it jumped off the ledge the heels impacted, it started skidding, then sat down hard {see edge of butt imprint next to the upper part of the skid}, shoved itself up {two hand marks were indistinct, but obvious in the dirt on each side of the two skids, and then as noted above, skidded down the very steep slope where it turned and ran. We had a guest from France with us. He became extremely excited because it was obvious to him he was within seconds of seeing what he had studied for years. We looked on it with colder eyes as bears and elk do strange things with frightened; and are so much more common. But I keep forgetting. You need to look carefully at photos of the Skookum Cast to see similar hair prints.
  14. Hello Norseman: Good call. No, we didn't try black bear hair. We should have. I think maybe we discounted black bear because with four paws and claws on a 5 foot +/- body, there should have been some indication of one being there. Plus, I've helped haul out a bear or three from that time of the year. Their hair is longer and much coarser than that in the casting. Still, a maybe.
  15. With all due respect, elk cross roads and use them for transit if people are not around. And, I have no doubts other animals do so too. So, an elk kneeling to bite an apple is reasonable. I make this respectful comment with two exceptions in mind: {1} I'm the one who drew the road intersection map accurate to 1/10 of a mile the expedition used. {2} With a high degree of certainty, I think partner Steve Kiley and I knew the area as well as anyone on the expedition and even more. So, no surprises our way. Due to personal considerations Steve Kiley and I declined to attend the expedition. However, at Thom Powells' house on Sunday {cast taken on Friday}, I was able to point to exactly where the cast was made on a map. This gives you an idea of my knowledge of the area, and the creatures within it. Thom Powell, who is a scientist, said the cast was the real deal. He and someone else put out the apples late at night and then in the morning, they were gone and so on ... Thom was of the strong opinion upon seeing the cast in early daylight, with earlier elk hoof prints in the immediate area, that the imprints were not elk. And, there was one other little thing all the learned scientists, researchers, and field investigators -- except for Richard Knoll and Thom Powell-- over looked. That was the hair patterns in the Skookum cast. Guess what sports fans? No you can't, I know that. Just joking. They exactly matched hair patterns in a photographic imprint site I found in the upper Clackamas as witnessed by Cliff Olson, Ray Crowe, and a gentleman visitor from France who I will leave nameless at this moment. Exact ! And guess what else?? Come on -- guess -- TRY? The hair imprints did not match any taxidermy samples we could find of elk hair. We tried bull, cow, calf, various times of the year {legal taken} etc. Then comes the Bellingham Conference in about 2002. I had never gone to a conference outside of the Portland area. We decided to go up and see the happening, and for me, to especially listen to Dr. Jeff Meldrum for the first time. It was a big deal, especially since I didn't hear him speak in person until 2015 in Portland Conference day: First, next to the Skookum Cast, I endeared myself to a BF group with an interest in the cast with many depreciative remarks aimed my way. Since I was very cool about it a tall professorial man took notice and after the groupies left to hear Dr. Meldrum, engaged me in conversation about why I knew what I knew. I, not thinking, produced my photograph enlargement folio and compared hair imprints from the upper Clackamas to those in the Skookum Cast. The professorial type, who I soon learned was Dr. Leroy Fish earnestly engaged me in deep converasation and ... guess what again? Come'on. You're smart lads and gals ... Yes! Right! I missed Dr. Meldrum's lecture, the reason I made the trip. But, I must say Dr. Fish became intensely interested in the upper Clackamas, especially when I compare it to the upper Wind River basin. He encouraged me to outline a book, which I did. He reviewed the concept and sample articles and wanted to co-author a volume with Cliff Olson and me. Then he had a heart attack way too soon. That was shocking. Anyway, without his guidance, we finally managed to get Oregon Bigfoot Highway published. So, that is a very long story of why I think the Skookum Cast is the real deal: Thom Powell, a scientist, says it is real. The area is rife with BF sighting reports, track finds, etc. And finally, the hair patterns match the upper Clackamas hair patterns, which we did not find after buying samples from several independent sources. Sincere regards, Joe Beelart, West Linn, Oregon Ps: Sure, in science, the easy answer is always the best, but probably not in the case of the Skookum Cast. PsPs: Sure, I'll attach clicks tomorrow. Done with Mr. Computer for the day.