Let's Talk Caves and Sasquatch

[hiflier]

I would like to extend this thought a bit more. Caves happen. I also think they get newly produced in nature all the time so it shouldn't be thought of as a static situation but rather one that is constantly evolving. Some waterfall caves no doubt collapse while yet others are constantly being created through natural forces. Years with large snow melts and those with heavy rains are the carvers of these structures. In softer creek and stream substrates a new one could crop up anywhere.water flows with force.

 

The snows this season in the West and Northwest would seem to be a strong factor for this set up. The next thought is one in which Sasquatch finds their favorite summer cooling spot has collapsed.Could it be a factor in that brutally hot weather forces them to relocate to a different place where a new waterfall cave had been created? Easy enough for them to search for one as all they have to do is follow any waterflow upstread and repeat until they discover one.

 

That factor alone would alter the locations of sighting reports, road sightings, and other encounters. These waterfall caves, especially the ones in relote areas would offer water of course but places where other animals go to drink as well as safe birthing sites once the waters recede and slow down if they are raging in the earlier months of Spring.

 

Sure, I'm reading an awful lot into this and presenting things that may only occasionally occur- that's what I do. But the point is to never stop thinking in order that our ideas don't get stuck in one line of thinking. I'm sure there are other aspects of this I haven't even begun to explore that some of you may see right away. It's because on the larger surface a habitat seems to stay pretty much the same- but in reality it doesn't because small changes are always taking place.

 

Edited January 24, 2017 by hiflier

[SWWASAS]

I think lava tubes are far more common in the PNW than waterfall caves or caves involving water soluble rock like limestone.     There is basically nothing involving limestone in the forested areas of the PNW.     I wonder how many undiscovered by human lava tubes are out there.   I suspect that some of the human disappearances might be falling through the roof of a lava tube and not finding a way out of it.     Some of the openings may be very small  at the very top of the tube and smooth walls are fairly common making climbing out impossible.      Not much good yelling for help as the sound would not carry very far.       If BF has been living in these areas for thousands of years,  they likely know where most of the lava tubes are.        The interior of the lava tubes are very temperate.      Cool in the summer and warmer than outside air in the winter.    Seems like a good shelter for most any creature that makes use of it.  

[hiflier]

Your experience and posts here attest to your time in the field and knowledge of these structures. A question for you then about something regarding why they are tubes and not solid lava rock. In other words, why are they empty and in being empty is there an outflow where whatever caused them to be tubes exited? Do they then become channels prone to flooding in heavy weather or snow melt seasons? Are they tubes BECAUSE of water flowing through them eating away at their interiors? If so would times of heavy snow melt/rain make them more dangerous to be in than normal? I've seen the grooving inside some of them so is that from lava or water?  I expect them to still be somewhat dangerous to be in anyway though as I've seen photos of collapsed roofs etc.

Edited January 24, 2017 by hiflier

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

1 hour ago, hiflier said:

Your experience and posts here attest to your time in the field and knowledge of these structures. A question for you then about something regarding why they are tubes and not solid lava rock. In other words, why are they empty and in being empty is there an outflow where whatever caused them to be tubes exited? Do they then become channels prone to flooding in heavy weather or snow melt seasons? Are they tubes BECAUSE of water flowing through them eating away at their interiors? If so would times of heavy snow melt/rain make them more dangerous to be in than normal? I've seen the grooving inside some of them so is that from lava or water?  I expect them to still be somewhat dangerous to be in anyway though as I've seen photos of collapsed roofs etc.

They are tubes because of volcanic flows through the tubes and occur in areas where the rock was created by volcanic process, such as at the boundary of continental plates and fault boundaries where mountains are in the process of uplift. The tubes are ancient and not water formed.

[hiflier]

OK. So that's what made the grooves inside them. My question revolved around what happened to the contents of the tubes, i.e., why are they tubes as in empty?

[VAfooter]

"When the supply of lava stops at the end of an eruption or lava is diverted elsewhere, lava in the tube system drains downslope and leaves partially empty cave-like conduits beneath the ground."

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lava_tube

 

[hiflier]

Well then, there ya go. It's a gravity issue. Thanks VAfooter. Was going to read up on the subject so thanks for the link  

[hiflier]

Thought this was kind of cool. Was issued back in 1963- 54 years ago:

 

http://file.dnr.wa.gov/publications/ger_ic40_caves_of_wa.pdf

[VAfooter]

No problem!

 

Glad to be of some service....

[BigTreeWalker]

Another thing about lava tubes is that they occur in valleys. Lava flows downhill just like water. So you aren't going to find any up on the ridges. What you will find are alcoves between boulders or large fractures in rock upthrusts. This is specific to the southern Cascades in Washington. I've found a few of these. They would make respectable shelters in some cases where you could get out of inclement weather. Never found any evidence other that maybe bobcats or cougars using them to get out of the rain. But I would think there may be quite a few of these on the rocky forested ridges. 

 

Here's another publication about lava tubes south of Mt St Helens.  https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.vulcanospeleology.org/articles/StHelensGuidebook.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj-_NjX-tzRAhVP3WMKHUDxDxoQFgg7MAM&usg=AFQjCNEJqq7lBqIiBjztj-DSHJyhRk3RBg&sig2=MjeT9NApcr9UKin6BNOTrw

[SWWASAS]

21 hours ago, hiflier said:

Your experience and posts here attest to your time in the field and knowledge of these structures. A question for you then about something regarding why they are tubes and not solid lava rock. In other words, why are they empty and in being empty is there an outflow where whatever caused them to be tubes exited? Do they then become channels prone to flooding in heavy weather or snow melt seasons? Are they tubes BECAUSE of water flowing through them eating away at their interiors? If so would times of heavy snow melt/rain make them more dangerous to be in than normal? I've seen the grooving inside some of them so is that from lava or water?  I expect them to still be somewhat dangerous to be in anyway though as I've seen photos of collapsed roofs etc.

Lava tubes occur in deep lava flows where the flow is deep enough that it remains molten for a long time.        Lets say that a lava flow floods a creek valley.     The surface solidifies,  turns solid and yet gravity keeps the lava flowing downhill.      Lava flows form basalt which is a dense and hard rock.     Where a flow is really deep,  and cannot flow, and is allowed to slowly cool because it has no place to go, a hexagonal columnar basalt is formed.   Really cool when it forms tall columns.         Where it is fluid enough to flow,  lava simply would move down the creek bed and flow out, leaving a fairly round tube inside.      The sides can be very smooth or segments can be a jumble.    Lava flows in Hawaii can be very smooth or a jumble of cooling rocks.     Over time the roofs tend to collapse,   vegetation, especially tree roots grow into fissures in the cock,   and the top can crumble and even cause the tube to collapse.       With Google earth,   search for Lava cave on Mt St Helens.   It is a classic lava tube.      You can see the lava tube because the vegetation on top of the tube cannot produce deep roots necessary for a mature tree.      So the vegetation over the tube is lighter colored than the mature trees on either side of it. You can plainly see it on Google earth.      Entrance and exit are through collapsed roof sections.     Similarly there can be places where there are openings in the roof but not a collapse large enough to facilitate entrance.      Water can flow through them.      I found one in my research area that had collapsed,   but water was flowing through it producing an artesian spring on the low end.    In Skamania County WA there is an area SW of Trout Lake where there are a number of lava tubes.   Some even have ice in them nearly year round.    This area is deep in BF sighting territory.    I would not be surprised if many unknown to men lava tubes are used for shelter by BF.   

[hiflier]

Thank you for the info and the lesson. I read up on them but your response put much into perspective. Yeah, BF may use them as it would help explain their seeming sudden appearances and disappearances. I read where one was 17 miles long. That's a lot of hidden trekking. Ok, it's time to move into other areas of interest while this subject is still fairly fresh: eye shine, eye glow, and loud howling heard across valleys. Those things might take some time and thought to get through. This discussion needs to happen in order to get other viewpoints on the idea of at least a partially subterranean creature's existence, evolution, and how such an existence might enhance their ability to detect foot traffic perhaps by delicately sensing footfalls through their vibrations in the strata over their heads? 

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

18 hours ago, BigTreeWalker said:

 

Another thing about lava tubes is that they occur in valleys

 

The native story I recall is that they
 rolled a boulder that perfectly fit the cave opening and could not be moved by a man, disguising the opening until the Bigfoot opened the door.

 

Had a dream about that a few night ago, Sasquatch came out of a cave after I had passed on a trail and followed me.

And I had not read this thread at that point.

 

Also that they disguised their communications by adding vocables to their words so that they would not be understood telepathically unless you had the key as to what the "code" was. 

 

Just a dream or were they talking to me telepathically or through dream clairvoyance ?

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by Cryptic Megafauna

[norseman]

Gardner cave was used as a smuggler route between the US and Canada.

 

http://www.ohwy.com/wa/c/crawfwsp.htm

 

But it's the only one of its kind in the area.

[Guest Del Rozan]

Yea it was mentioned earlier, but I think that they're only going to habituate caves/cave systems if there's more than one way out. If you ask me, they base their lives off evasiveness. No matter where they are, they must have a reliable escape.