MIB Posted November 30, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2016 So if you've now decided they either didn't exist or don't anymore, why are you still here? What motivation remains? Your own bitterness is not enough, you've got to "whiz" in everyone else's Cheerios, too, so you can feel good about yourselves? That's something to be proud of ... NOT! Whatever was out there is out there still making tracks as of this past summer and my search continues. Do what you want, rationalized it how you will, but, as the saying goes, people who say it can't be done should get out of the way of the people doing it. Please ... get out of the way. MIB 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) MIB, I;m a proponent and always have been and being a devil's advocate doesn't make me a stumbling block. I have worked for three and a half years on John Green's database ON MY OWN to get it into a shape that everyone can use. I finished it about two weeks ago and only have to remove a bit more redundant data now to streamline it. That is not being a stumbling block or whizzing in anyone's cheerios as you put it. I'm assuming you are talking to me here of course. There is nothing wrong for a proponent to bring up points that need proof beyond anecdotes. Speaking about BF's spiritual excursions cannot be proved so why should I accept it and not give my opinion on the subject. It neither makes me a denialist or a meany head.. It Sasquatch still exists then great let the hunt continue. But if it no longer does then there should be those whose feet should br held to the fire. Having a top gun in Bigfootdom lie about an encounter was not easy for me swallow and it did somewhat taint my trust in those that run the show. I'm still not over it and it still ticks me off to no end that there hasn't been a huge backlash about it as that person still is active and looked up to. What gives with that??? How come you're not attacking that guy? He's a lot more serious of a subject but all I ever see is it being downplayed to a point where when I last brought it up there was zero response from this community.Oh, but I don't accept spiritual Sasquatch and it deserves a swat from you? I don't get the what think is misplaced aggression. You want to lash out at someone? Lash out at the liars who still walk the halls of bigfootery while everyone who wants to make a buck ignores them. Edited November 30, 2016 by hiflier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WesT Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Flesh and blood. They can manipulate the environment to accommodate a need. I've seen it. I think of them as stick indians. No compound tools or fire needed. Use of symbolic representation to communicate. I've not experienced anything paranormal regarding the subject at hand, but I'm not the thought police either. Just because there is no VERIFIABLE evidence (ie:no body) doesn't mean we're dead in the water with this mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 35 minutes ago, WesT said: Just because there is no VERIFIABLE evidence (ie:no body) doesn't mean we're dead in the water with this mystery My thoughts exactly. It would seem that whether or not they exist is and has been in our court. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WesT Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Well there's lot's of evidence out there that points to an unknown, we just don't know for a fact what that unknown is (ie:no body). It is amazing how eloquent and creative people can get just to say "no body". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIB Posted November 30, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2016 hiflier - Quote They are now gone. Extinct. Does not sound like the words of a proponent to me. Sounds like you've "gone crowlogic". If you are just playing devils advocate, say so from the beginning rather than misrepresenting yourself. If you are purple, want to be seen as purple, but keep telling people you are orange, they're going to think you've lost your marbles. Hmmm ... I'm curious: please clarify: who is this lying top gun of bigfootery that you once put trust in? I'm not sure who, or what situation, you're referring to. What's the evidence to support the claim they lied? MIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) 15 hours ago, hiflier said: There will be some who will insist that that isn't true. That Sasquatch is still out there. If that is not the case then all the new reports coming in to the BFRO are fabrications meant to keep folks shelling out money to those who have been keeping the subject alive after the fact. And if THAT is true then is anyone going to publicly admit it? MIB, you want to quote me out of context that's your prerogative. As you can see I still hold out for existence. Slim perhaps but I've always held a skeptical 51% in favor of Sasquatch being out there. That's a far cry from Crowlogic so I reject your comparison of my supposed slide out of hand. The name of that person you seek is Don Keating, the Ohio Bigfoot conference guy for twenty years running. He supposedly retired from organizing the conference in 2012, handing it over to Marc DeWerth, but has still been active in keeping it going. On two radio shows back in 2008 (one being Kathy Strain's) he related his 1985 sighting that was at night under a Full Moon. In truth the Moon on that date was barely past NEW by a couple of days and therefore had set a couple of hours after the sun did. That means the night in question was pitch black. He lied. Look it up. If you cannot find the support for what I am saying I will give you three links, two to the radio shows and one to a Bigfoot Inquiry article back in 2010 exposing him, and a calendar showing the Moon's real position on Sept. 15th, 1985. Edited November 30, 2016 by hiflier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIB Posted November 30, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2016 My perception of what you said IS my perception of what you said. I'm not looking for something to argue with but I'll argue with what I find. Thanks for being specific. I thought it might be someone I know, someone I could shed some light on ... or have a discussion with in person if appropriate. He's a regional person whose name is vaguely, barely on the national stage. He's delusional if he's presenting himself as a "top gun" ... he's so misguided it's funny. He's not up to a Chris Noel / Scott Carpenter level who've built a reputation beyond their region, absolutely not a Meldrum, not a Bindernagel, nor one of TV bigfooters. Y' have to remember that disproportionately many of the people at the top of the BF community have severe personality defects, often narcissists who draw their narcissistic supply from the sycophants they attract. Most humans are somewhat flawed, not worthy of the pedestals we try to put them on, especially the ones who want to stand on pedestals. I'm sorry he sucked you in. MIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) Heh, he sucked a LOT of people in including all of the speakers he had at his conference- all of who had known him for years. Matt Moneymaker knew him when he was in Ohio and they even did research together. This "lie" may go deeper than you think. MIB, May I say one more thing in my defense, please? I wrote a book on hunting Sasquatch for the purpose of getting one voucher specimen to science for study: The Sasquatch Hunter's Field Manual No one else has done that. NO ONE. And yes, I'm hoping it sells. One of the reasons is to fund field research and there are members here who will vouch for that stated intent. Book sales have been slow but the eBook has only been out since October 20th so I don't expect much if anything this early. The book was a year in the making and WILL fund field research when it gets rolling. Edited November 30, 2016 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarArcher Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 9 minutes ago, hiflier said: Heh, he sucked a LOT of people in including all of the speakers he had at his conference- all of who had known him for years. Matt Moneymaker knew him when he was in Ohio and they even did research together. This "lie" may go deeper than you think. MIB, May I say one more thing in my defense, please? I wrote a book on hunting Sasquatch for the purpose of getting one voucher specimen to science for study: The Sasquatch Hunter's Field Manual No one else has done that. NO ONE. And yes, I'm hoping it sells. One of the reasons is to fund field research and there are members here who will vouch for that stated intent. Book sales have been slow but the eBook has only been out since October 20th so I don't expect much if anything this early. The book was a year in the making and WILL fund field research when it gets rolling. hiflier, yeah, it's just wrong to lie about things like this as it's already a "touchy" subject to start with. Then when some yo-yo tells a lie, and it can be documented, it does NOTHING to help the cause - but certainly does damage to those who simply report the exact circumstances and events they saw or experienced. Even if he had a real experience that night - by fabricating that one detail - one is inclined to disregard every single claim he's ever made. For me - I won't let what someone else does, somehow diminish my own experience, and what things I do know for a fact. If everyone in the whole world suddenly confessed to lying about BF, it won't have one iota of impact on me whatsoever. I know what I know - and none of it relies on anyone else, nor their actions. Write him off as you wish, but know that there are some honest folks out there - I know of some right here on this site - and they too, know what they know. So. Screw this guy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Far Archer I will not write him off until all the people that have associated with him do. And there are some heavy hitters out there. As far as honest people yes, there are honest people who know what they know. MIB asked why am I still here. Well it's because of the honest ones. They fall into my 51%. Can I be a cynic? Oh yeah I can. But not because of the subject of Sasquatch. It's because of those who would deceive the public....publicly. The person I mentioned is the reason I started the Bigfoot ethics thread a while ago. If the ones that people look up to for information and reassurance will not cull the deceivers in their ranks then what does that tell me? Anyway, thanks for posting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted November 30, 2016 Admin Share Posted November 30, 2016 Quote So if you've now decided they either didn't exist or don't anymore, why are you still here? Well, I haven't decided that yet. I said the failure to produce results point that way and instead of grabbing the paranormal crutch, we should face that fact. Quote ... people who say it can't be done should get out of the way of the people doing it. Please ... get out of the way. It's not an engineering project MIB, if the thing is not out there, no matter how hard you try, you can't get the job done. Anyway, who's standing in your way? @Hiflier: I don't use kindle, but bought a copy anyway... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted November 30, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2016 Quote The name of that person you seek is Don Keating, the Ohio Bigfoot conference guy for twenty years running. He supposedly retired from organizing the conference in 2012, handing it over to Marc DeWerth, but has still been active in keeping it going. On two radio shows back in 2008 (one being Kathy Strain's) he related his 1985 sighting that was at night under a Full Moon. In truth the Moon on that date was barely past NEW by a couple of days and therefore had set a couple of hours after the sun did. Hifler You are reading way to much in these reports and it's F***king you way up. This is the second time you have mention this book but yet have not collected a specimen. You are calling your book a manual for hunting Sasquatch. But yet have not gain the specimen to complete this manual. I am not sure if moon phases has anything to do with these creatures and if it does then where did they gain this knowledge. We just did not wake up on morning and said "today the moon is full might be a bad hunting day". If this is so then it might even be a bigger discovery. I understand the part of gaining money in this field. That money helps with gaining equipment just for discovery. Just like it takes funding to run this forum. I have no quarrels with you Hifler. But how can you write a book on hunting them and not have a specimen to prove your theories. Let's say if I was to bag me one, all those things that I have said about the paranormal would now be right. Why? I have the proof or the goodies to prove I was right. But what would happen to the beliefs of people after what others have been saying about these creatures. Where I sit in front of my computer screen I feel like it's a catch 22 for me. I can tell you one thing is that they are not extinct they ,just move a lot. I do agree with Fararcher though, they are sneaky B*st*rds. Get back on track Hifler. We still hunting them and it has never stopped. Some times adversary makes one stronger. Good luck with that book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 2 hours ago, gigantor said: I don't use kindle, but bought a copy anyway. Thank You gigantor. Very kind of you to do that. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIB Posted December 1, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 1, 2016 5 hours ago, gigantor said: Well, I haven't decided that yet. Really? From page 1 of this thread ... hiflier: That if they ever existed? They are now gone. Extinct. and we are simply too late. gigantor: That is the best explanation I've heard. and .. Quote It's not an engineering project MIB, if the thing is not out there, no matter how hard you try, you can't get the job done. If that's not what you meant, what did you mean, not now, but at the time you typed it? 'cause it sure seems like are agreeing with hiflier that they don't exist and the efforts are futile. regarding: Quote Anyway, who's standing in your way? Nobody is actually accomplishing it but it sure looked, from your posts, like you and hiflier were doing your best to discourage me and anyone else from continuing to try where you'd given up. Seems now that's not the message you were trying to deliver but it is what I got from the words you both chose to use. Whatever. Probably time to move on rather than argue about what it is we're arguing about arguing about. MIB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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