Is Bigfoot Related To Neanderthal?

[Guest]

I remember a story on TV news a few years ago, I'm guessing 15 to 20 years ago, of a skeleton found in a cave above a french village. They had found DNA and had taken a sample of everyone's DNA in the village to compare. It was found to match one person that turned out to be the Principal of the school of that town. I believe the skeleton was of a Neanderthal and the principal was a direct relative of the man found in the cave. They made a big deal of the whole thing and did the announcement of it live on TV at the school.

Just wondering if anyone remembers this?

WVaNative

I can't say I recall that, but what was the principal's reaction to all of it?

[Guest]

It was an English village as I recall and the bones were not Neanderthal.

NS

[Guest wvanative]

It was an English village as I recall and the bones were not Neanderthal.

NS

It would be nice if someone could find an article on it as my memory is not that good any more LOL. I just remember that the principal was blown away by the fact that he was related too the person found in the cave.

WvaNative

[Guest]

http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/03-97/03-09-97/a09wn056.htm

British teacher finds long-lost relative: 9,000-year-old man

By The Associated Press

LONDON -- Using DNA from a tooth, scientist have established a blood tie between a 9,000-year-old skeleton known as "Cheddar Man" and an English schoolteacher who lives just a half mile from the cave where the bones were found.

Oxford University scientists announced Friday that Adrian Targett, 42, a history teacher in the town of Cheddar in southwest England, shares a common ancestor with Cheddar Man.

It is the longest human lineage ever traced, the team of scientists from the university's Institute of Molecular Medicine said.

"They would have shared a common ancestor about 10,000 years ago, so they are related -- just not very closely," said Dr. Bryan Sykes, leader of the research team.

Mr. Targett was startled by the news.

"I am overwhelmed, a bit surprised," said Mr. Targett, whose ancestry was revealed during the filming of a documentary for the TV station HTV, which commissioned the study.

"I was just about to say I hope it's not me."

Mr. Targett suggested that if more people were tested, researchers would find other relatives of Cheddar Man.

Dr. Larry Barham, a Texas-born archaeologist at Bristol University, said the finding "adds to the evidence that Britons came from a race of hunter-gatherers who later turned to farming because they found it was to their advantage." Archeologists believe Cheddar Man, who lived during the Stone Age, was a hunter-gatherer.

Opponents of this theory argue that Britons are descendants of Middle Eastern farmers.

To get the DNA, scientists extracted cells from a tooth of Cheddar Man.

They compared the mitochondrial DNA -- which is inherited unchanged on the maternal line -- with samples of mitochondrial DNA from the cheek cells of 15 pupils at the Kings of Wessex school, where Mr. Targett teaches, and five adults from old Cheddar families.

Prof. Chris Stringer, a researcher at London's Natural History Museum, said one problem with the research "is that we don't know that Cheddar Man had any children. This is mitochondrial DNA that is only inherited through the maternal link, so this would come from Cheddar Man's mother or his sister."

HTV said the discovery came when a television director was researching a series on archeology. In search of information on whether cannibalism was practiced by Stone Age man, scientists took a sample of cells from the jaw of Cheddar Man, HTV said.

That led them to wonder if there could be modern-day relatives of the ancient man, who was discovered in 1903.

The network of underground caves at Cheddar, 130 miles west of London, is believed to have been home to a community of Stone Age people. Many artifacts have been found there.

[Guest wvanative]

http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/03-97/03-09-97/a09wn056.htm

British teacher finds long-lost relative: 9,000-year-old man

By The Associated Press

LONDON -- Using DNA from a tooth, scientist have established a blood tie between a 9,000-year-old skeleton known as "Cheddar Man" and an English schoolteacher who lives just a half mile from the cave where the bones were found.

Oxford University scientists announced Friday that Adrian Targett, 42, a history teacher in the town of Cheddar in southwest England, shares a common ancestor with Cheddar Man.

It is the longest human lineage ever traced, the team of scientists from the university's Institute of Molecular Medicine said.

"They would have shared a common ancestor about 10,000 years ago, so they are related -- just not very closely," said Dr. Bryan Sykes, leader of the research team.

Mr. Targett was startled by the news.

"I am overwhelmed, a bit surprised," said Mr. Targett, whose ancestry was revealed during the filming of a documentary for the TV station HTV, which commissioned the study.

"I was just about to say I hope it's not me."

Mr. Targett suggested that if more people were tested, researchers would find other relatives of Cheddar Man.

Dr. Larry Barham, a Texas-born archaeologist at Bristol University, said the finding "adds to the evidence that Britons came from a race of hunter-gatherers who later turned to farming because they found it was to their advantage." Archeologists believe Cheddar Man, who lived during the Stone Age, was a hunter-gatherer.

Opponents of this theory argue that Britons are descendants of Middle Eastern farmers.

To get the DNA, scientists extracted cells from a tooth of Cheddar Man.

They compared the mitochondrial DNA -- which is inherited unchanged on the maternal line -- with samples of mitochondrial DNA from the cheek cells of 15 pupils at the Kings of Wessex school, where Mr. Targett teaches, and five adults from old Cheddar families.

Prof. Chris Stringer, a researcher at London's Natural History Museum, said one problem with the research "is that we don't know that Cheddar Man had any children. This is mitochondrial DNA that is only inherited through the maternal link, so this would come from Cheddar Man's mother or his sister."

HTV said the discovery came when a television director was researching a series on archeology. In search of information on whether cannibalism was practiced by Stone Age man, scientists took a sample of cells from the jaw of Cheddar Man, HTV said.

Nice job NavySEAL, I knew this info was out there somewhere. I have always found our past an intriguing subject and think it's neat for things like this to happen. I hope they had a reburial of the remains and that his family still pay their respects to their ancient ancestor.

That led them to wonder if there could be modern-day relatives of the ancient man, who was discovered in 1903.

The network of underground caves at Cheddar, 130 miles west of London, is believed to have been home to a community of Stone Age people. Many artifacts have been found there.

WVaNative

[Guest]

Cool stuff. I remember that. Nice to see it again. Thanks!~

[Guest Lesmore]

I vaguely remember a topic like this based on foot morphology a while back. Are there any other theories floating around out there that link bigfoot to Neanderthal? If so, I'ld love to hear about it.

Jodie,

I don't know if there is any relationship between Bigfoot and Neanderthals. But 'attached' is an interesting story about a Neanderthal find and some archeologists' speculations.

Please note, at the end of this story, are several additional links, regarding Neanderthal. I like to peruse British media. Oft times they have interesting takes on history, scientific issues...sometimes, quite unlike our (North American) views.

Les

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12049854

Edited December 22, 2010 by Lesmore

[Guest]

This story of cannnibalizing neanderthals is pretty interesting, though one thing it does is re-inforce the idea that neanderthals and other archaic humans were somehow living in caves as a routine sort of thing,which is sorta odd considering how poorly adapted to living in caves humans are. Rock shelters and overhangs make sense,and no doubt deeper caves would make sense on occasion during hard times, which is what I suspect this case represents; difficult times and desperate measures, and so of course, people just as they always have, have retreated for their security, and caves protect not only the living but the residual evidence of their activity. How these people lived outside of the caves, as the vast majority of ancestral humans likely did for most of their existence, is still poorly understood and what we know is necessarily speculation and inference.

[Guest]

Jodie,

I don't know if there is any relationship between Bigfoot and Neanderthals. But 'attached' is an interesting story about a Neanderthal find and some archeologists' speculations.

Please note, at the end of this story, are several additional links, regarding Neanderthal. I like to peruse British media. Oft times they have interesting takes on history, scientific issues...sometimes, quite unlike our (North American) views.

Les

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12049854

Thanks Les!! I also read the associated articles. The original article that I posted theorized that the Neanderthal was not as social as cro-magnon based on the implications for brain structure. You also have to take in consideration the vast difference in personalities, circumstances,nurture versus nature, among separate people regardless of whether they are neanderthal, cro-magnon, or a hybrid. What I am about to say is strictly conjecture based on the many, many theories floating around out there from various fields and I hope it is not deemed inappropriate. I am caucasian so I feel that I can criticize my own ethnic origins. I wonder if they were not cannabalized by their own kind as environmental pressures increased? The article doesn't really give you any indication of anything specific about the tools used to make the hack marks or who they might belong to.... It's the behaviors that we guess at that fascinate me the most about neanderthal. I have noticed that the majority of modern day serial killers are caucasian and it just happens that caucasians have the most genetic contribution from the neanderthal line......it makes me wonder if there is a genetic link to sociopathology or maladaptive attachments? If this was a possible reason that the line was reabsorbed back into the cro-magnon line to produce modern day humans? Neanderthal's were thought to be mostly not war like but that maybe a result of, how can I put this? An inability to care? Maladaptive behavior regarding overall survival would not be successfully passed on, so it makes you think that there were multiple reasons that so little genetic material survived from the neanderthal line, be that behavioral, environmental factors, and whatever social thought and customs prevailed at the time. You do not tend to blend extensively with people who do not form the same kind of social attachments or hold the same values that you have, although there are always exceptions to that rule. That small percentage of neanderthal genes that we see in modern humans may be that exception, in my opinion. I doubt we will ever know for sure.

[Guest Gambit]

The question is "related", not "same species" correct?

Yes they certainly are related, as are we!

[Guest Lesmore]

Thanks Les!! I also read the associated articles. The original article that I posted theorized that the Neanderthal was not as social as cro-magnon based on the implications for brain structure. You also have to take in consideration the vast difference in personalities, circumstances,nurture versus nature, among separate people regardless of whether they are neanderthal, cro-magnon, or a hybrid. What I am about to say is strictly conjecture based on the many, many theories floating around out there from various fields and I hope it is not deemed inappropriate. I am caucasian so I feel that I can criticize my own ethnic origins. I wonder if they were not cannabalized by their own kind as environmental pressures increased? The article doesn't really give you any indication of anything specific about the tools used to make the hack marks or who they might belong to.... It's the behaviors that we guess at that fascinate me the most about neanderthal. I have noticed that the majority of modern day serial killers are caucasian and it just happens that caucasians have the most genetic contribution from the neanderthal line......it makes me wonder if there is a genetic link to sociopathology or maladaptive attachments? If this was a possible reason that the line was reabsorbed back into the cro-magnon line to produce modern day humans? Neanderthal's were thought to be mostly not war like but that maybe a result of, how can I put this? An inability to care? Maladaptive behavior regarding overall survival would not be successfully passed on, so it makes you think that there were multiple reasons that so little genetic material survived from the neanderthal line, be that behavioral, environmental factors, and whatever social thought and customs prevailed at the time. You do not tend to blend extensively with people who do not form the same kind of social attachments or hold the same values that you have, although there are always exceptions to that rule. That small percentage of neanderthal genes that we see in modern humans may be that exception, in my opinion. I doubt we will ever know for sure.Yes, I doubt we will ever know for sure.

But genetic conditions can be passed on for thousands of years..so your theory about a genetic link to sociopathology or maladaptive attachments can certainly 'survive' for many, many generations.

I think as work continues on DNA, tracing genetic conditions, etc...continues our understanding about what passes on and what doesn't...will increase.

Les

[Guest Lesmore]

Jodie,

I know you are interested in Neanderthal, human and Bigfoot origins...here's some very recent information about the origin of humans, splitting of species and Neanderthal.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101227/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_ancient_teeth

Les

[Guest]

Jodie,

I know you are interested in Neanderthal, human and Bigfoot origins...here's some very recent information about the origin of humans, splitting of species and Neanderthal.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101227/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_ancient_teeth

Les

Does this surprise me? No, not at all. It might explain why everyone in the world wants to claim Israel when, to me, it just looks like an arid piece of land with no redeeming features. India claims to be the oldest civilization. According to the Indian culture, their history was rewritten by western archaeologists but here is an excerpt from one Indian historian's take on the Nilmat Puran.

In Kashmir, the valley of Kashmir, it appears it was many years

ago a lake. Now, there is an ancient Sanskrit manuscript that tells of

a lake that existed in that area, so that account is there in some ancient

writings. Now, according to modern geological reporting, about 40,000

years ago Kashmir was indeed a lake in the valley of Kashmir in northern

India. It was covered by a huge lake and it was blocked on the southern

end by a little range of mountains. And at a certain point, something

happened and it broke open and the lake drained out. That happened

about 40,000 to 50,000 years ago. So, it is interesting that you've got

this ancient historical record that talks about this lake. And if it is to be

taken literally, then it means that somebody must have seen this lake

as it existed 50,000 years ago and wrote about it."

It's strictly a matter of opinion but ironically, a lot of old Sanskrit texts describe land marks as they were many, many years before modern man was supposedly on the scene in India. But these stories survived many thousands of years to be transcribed in Sanskrit about 3500-5000 years ago, or so they say. This just in though, that may lend some credence to the Indian claims:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/56043/homo-sapiens-may-have-reached.html

Edited December 28, 2010 by Jodie

[Guest]

Seeing the middle east, and for that matter Egypt and the Sinai as marginal non-productive habitat because that's what it seems like today is to overlook the paleoclimatological conditions that existed there prior to the human impacts (clearcutting the trees, combined with over-grazing by sheep and goats) that have gone on for the last few thousand years and which are the primary reason the great forests and the ancient aquafirs that existed for so long are now gone. Furthermore during the vast majority of the last 2 or 3 million years the coastal plains were significantly larger as sea-levels were far lower most of the times.

[Guest]

Agreed Dog, something I'ld already thought through as far as ancient man is concerned.