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Attn: Closet Witnesses

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Hello All,

I would like to receive PMs or read posts on this public thread from those of you who...

...have encountered an unknown tall, hairy humanoid creature and originally came to the BFF seeking community with others who have encountered an unknown tall, hairy humanoid creature, and/or...

...would be interested in seeing a virtual witness community set-up right here at the BFF, offering differing degrees of involvement based on individual preference, but always with the guarantee of certain safe zones where one can find the support and advocacy of other witnesses and supportive BFF members, and/or

...have ideas you'd like to share about how bigfoot witnesses can be better served on the internet.

In the years since starting my own search, not for bigfoot, but for community with other bigfoot witnesses, I've come to see that we unsupported witnesses are probably the least tapped resource and most under-served sub-group in the bigfooting community. To be fair, we witnesses, really can't ask researchers and enthusiasts who are not witnesses themselves to create for us the shelter we need without our initializing the effort. And yes, we could take our cause elsewhere on the web. The fact is, the BFF is the internet hub for all things bigfoot, and it really makes good sense to offer something meaningful and purpose-built right here, as witnesses often come to the BFF first to look for safe venue to talk about their encounters. Sadly in the past, at the old BFF, most learned quickly to stay in the closet. By bringing a few courageous witnesses together and doing what it takes to earn the approval of the new BFF Administration, I really hope this void can be filled right here at the BFF someday soon.

So, if you think you'd like to help start and maintain some kind of BFF outreach community for bigfoot witnesses who so far have not found the support and outlet on the internet that they need, please write me a PM or leave a comment of support here on this public thread. Even if you just need someone to talk to about how you feel about your encounter with a cryptid hominid and don't feel comfortable talking about it on the open forums... please feel free to write me a PM about what you're going through. I'd like to try to help if I can...

Looking forward to hearing from all of you,

LePetitPied

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Hi, LePetitPied. I like your signature!

Your idea is very interesting, & it will be nice if you can get it going. I have some doubts about it, however. How are you planning to keep the doubters & attackers off the witnesses?

They are usually fine with reading about someone seeing one walking across the road, but when sightings start getting out of the ordinary, things go south pretty fast. First thing that happens is the demand for "proof to back up the fantastic claims".

Most witnesses are in the closet because they don't want to put up with being ridiculed & harassed. There are a lot of people that read this forum that have PMd me & said "I would like to tell what I have seen, but I just can't deal with the consequences".

Good luck with your plan. I hope some of them will come forward. :)

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I've come to see that we unsupported witnesses are probably the least tapped resource and most under-served sub-group in the bigfooting community.

You certainly have said a mouthful there! I have no doubt that many witnesses have a lot more information either knowingly or unknowingly held back from their initial reports and that information is often lost because of the response they have received from their initial telling of their experience. I'm not saying that they are deliberately holding things back, though in some cases they may well be and I honestly wouldn't blame them if their telling of a more detailed encounter would be met with the same "yea, right" kind of attitude.

Not only are those witnesses being treated poorly, but those of us interested in learning more may be being short changed by not being able to explore with them the other details that could be gleaned from their experience simply by talking to them in a more supportive and understanding way.

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As we've seen with a couple of recent threads there is a battle of sorts between pro-kill and no-kill folks. Many who would love nothing better than to share knowledge and insight are reluctant to make it avilable to those who might use that information to inflict harm, forget that ridicule.

For instance, if I had discovered a way to pinpoint habitation areas, could I in good conscience share it openly on a public forum?

For that and several other reasons most of the interaction that I am aware of takes place on private email lists.

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Hi, LePetitPied. I like your signature!

Thanks!

Your idea is very interesting, & it will be nice if you can get it going.

With more support like yours, it should be a great resource for everyone.

I have some doubts about it, however. How are you planning to keep the doubters & attackers off the witnesses?

Well, that certainly is a topic that's ripe for discussion. But a couple of methods that would work are [1] pin guidelines for posting in safety zone subforums that outline that only if a witness has accepted an invitation to discuss his account out on the main discussion forums may skeptics and nay-sayers take "liberties", [2] teach witnesses how to word their posts to include phrases like, "positive, supportive replied only please" which would impel all posters to either post postiviely and supportively if they are to keep from hijacking those threads. Again, naysayers and skeptics would not be hindered from going out on the open discussion forums and starting their own threads about the account threads.

It's all a matter really of good posting ettiquette and the self-policing of forum posting guidelines that will make any internet venue safe for witnesses. Volunteers could moderate the witness subforums, if the BFF Admin thought a seperate witness subforum would be too controversial for the regular mods to be burdened with, but I think that with the right planning and set-up, such a subforum would be a natural and pleasant addition to the BFF.

There are a lot of people that read this forum that have PMd me & said "I would like to tell what I have seen, but I just can't deal with the consequences".

Yup. This field is rampant with loads of people wondering why the heck they've been treated like liars and attention-seekers by the very group of people -- the people looking for evidence to either prove or disprove the existence of bigfoot! It's ironic and sad and totally needs to change... if this community is to be taken seriously at all. If this was another topic, say people looking for some elusive and rare insect, any firsthand witness would be treated with respect and interest. There would be a lively exchange going on between witnesses and researchers. But at the old BFF -- the WORLDWIDE hub for bigfoot discussion and the first entry on a google search made by any new witness just coming in from the cold -- there is/was a nearly sterile vacuum of interface between witnesses and researchers. I'm one of the few who came out of the closet all those years ago who's back coming around and trying to get something worthy for witnesses going. But a few years ago and until recently, even as strongly as I felt about this subject, I couldn't stand the heat and had to just walk away. It's been the inauguration of the new BFF that sparked renewed hope in me. I'm like, *sigh* let's try this again...

Good luck with your plan. I hope some of them will come forward. :)

Thanks again!

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You certainly have said a mouthful there!

;) Yeah, the same mouthful I started saying years ago. I sure hope I get a better reception this time around... it is a NEW BFF afterall... right?

I have no doubt that many witnesses have a lot more information either knowingly or unknowingly held back from their initial reports...

I can verify that for you... both from my own experience and from what I'm told on the PMs I receive from other witnesses.

...and that information is often lost because of the response they have received from their initial telling of their experience.

...which has always just blown my mind! I mean, how can this state of affairs in the bigfoot community continue to go unattended? When skeptics try to assert that there is more to be gained by nullifying every single witness with more to say than "I saw some eye glint in my backyard" in order to stop any potential pollution by one or two hoaxers, I've always felt that they were putting themselves up as intermediates between the world and the field of searching for the truth about bigfoot. The problem of being duped by a few hoaxers is way outweighed by the grotesque amount of data lost which only real witnesses who've seen way more than just eye glint. And think about this... if someone is a hoaxer, it's important for all of us to interact with that person too, so that we all really learn how to discern the difference without resorting to disrespectful name-calling as a mainstay first response... then each of us can decide to ignore someone or not and not rely on a few hypervigilant skeptics to keep us "safe" from being duped. A particularly high profile old BFF hoax-buster who turned out himself to be a hoaxer comes to mind as the thesis of the sentiment of what I'm trying to convey here. And it was no small catastrophe and a huge damage done to the last 5 years of BFF archives that he and others like him managed to keep presumably honest people like me the witnesses who have reached out to me (cuz, man, why would we keep coming here and lurking if we had evil intentions?) off the forums almost entirely. In my opinion, from what I've seen so far, the New BFF is going to make every effort to create safe venue for everyone... I only hope they ask the witnesses what "safe venue" should look like so we have a say too this time...

...a more detailed encounter would be met with the same "yea, right" kind of attitude.

...and I've comforted more than a few wounded witnesses who came here back in the day and got their guts ripped out! Really, I can't prove it, but I know most of the people who've contacted me are not faking their trauma. And for those who just had something shattering happen to them last night, it's really not cool to be abusing them about it this morning... ya know? :blink:

Not only are those witnesses being treated poorly, but those of us interested in learning more may be being short changed by not being able to explore with them the other details that could be gleaned from their experience simply by talking to them in a more supportive and understanding way.

Now whose saying a mouthful?! Tell it like it is/was! And big thanks for the support!

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As we've seen with a couple of recent threads there is a battle of sorts between pro-kill and no-kill folks. Many who would love nothing better than to share knowledge and insight are reluctant to make it avilable to those who might use that information to inflict harm, forget that ridicule.

For instance, if I had discovered a way to pinpoint habitation areas, could I in good conscience share it openly on a public forum?

For that and several other reasons most of the interaction that I am aware of takes place on private email lists.

There is an element of truth to this. Carefully thinking through the ramifications of why you are in it to win it need to occur. I am a member of some of those lists (or have been in the past). The experience that T. Burnette had with uninvited visitors to his property shortly after some public discussion of his environment taught me a huge lesson.

For instance, if I had discovered a way to pinpoint habitation areas, could I in good conscience share it openly on a public forum?

It seems the BFRO shares some limited general information about pinpointing habitation areas with their participants, if there are specific ways to determine this that were successful somebody is already holding the pictures and documentation I should think.

Edited by bipedalist
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As we've seen with a couple of recent threads there is a battle of sorts between pro-kill and no-kill folks. Many who would love nothing better than to share knowledge and insight are reluctant to make it avilable to those who might use that information to inflict harm, forget that ridicule.

For instance, if I had discovered a way to pinpoint habitation areas, could I in good conscience share it openly on a public forum?

I am not so worried about pro-kill advocates finding an area of activity. So far, the ones that claim to be hunting bigfoot with guns haven't produced any better results than those that hunt bigfoot with cameras. ;)

I would be more worried about hoaxers showing up.

Personally, I think that if someone finds an area that they believe has bigfoot activity, they should keep it to themselves if they feel comfortable with doing their own research. Or they might try to solicit some trusted friends to help them, if they don't feel comfortable being in the field by themselves.

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As we've seen with a couple of recent threads there is a battle of sorts between pro-kill and no-kill folks. Many who would love nothing better than to share knowledge and insight are reluctant to make it avilable to those who might use that information to inflict harm, forget that ridicule.

For instance, if I had discovered a way to pinpoint habitation areas, could I in good conscience share it openly on a public forum?

For that and several other reasons most of the interaction that I am aware of takes place on private email lists.

I'm seriously no-kill, and a witness. Yet, I and many others like me are enlightened enough to realize that this undiscovered species has more to gain from our helping people find it than by our obscuring details in order to save the single bigfoot specimen it would take to prove to the world that this creature is real... thus ensuring it and its habitat's conservation. I think part of the charter for such a witness community as I'm proposing would include having discussions about the benefits of open reporting. Of course, at the beginning only a handful of brave witnesses will openly join in, but the important thing is that all of us have faith in the lurking witnesses who would be reading along and learning that their experiences can be shared without fear of negative impact or repercussions.

Anyway, this issue is pretty much academic at this point... since no-one's come forward with a carcass yet (hunted or found)... so it really doesn't serve anything for witnesses to withhold what they know. Let's face it... bigfoot hasn't so far needed anyone's help staying safe from the pro-kill people! :lol:

In my opinion it's these sorts of perceived potential blocks that obviously need sorting out so that we can move forward to a better future here at the new BFF. Thanks for your thought-provoking post, Indie!

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But a couple of methods that would work are [1] pin guidelines for posting in safety zone subforums that outline that only if a witness has accepted an invitation to discuss his account out on the main discussion forums may skeptics and nay-sayers take "liberties",

As I pointed out to you in the other thread, we already have this in place. Not much activity in those two threads so far. I don't believe it has anything to do with skeptics or nay-sayers taking "liberties" on this forum. It may be that there are just not that many "witnesses" that want to post their encounter or talk about it.

[2] teach witnesses how to word their posts to include phrases like, "positive, supportive replied only please" which would impel all posters to either post postiviely and supportively if they are to keep from hijacking those threads. Again, naysayers and skeptics would not be hindered from going out on the open discussion forums and starting their own threads about the account threads.

Which I believe would be detrimental to the witness posting their encounter in the first place. Posted encounters can and usually will get discussed on this forum. The more outlandish the story, the more nay saying we will probably get.

It's all a matter really of good posting ettiquette and the self-policing of forum posting guidelines that will make any internet venue safe for witnesses. Volunteers could moderate the witness subforums, if the BFF Admin thought a seperate witness subforum would be too controversial for the regular mods to be burdened with, but I think that with the right planning and set-up, such a subforum would be a natural and pleasant addition to the BFF.

We have the utmost confidence that the BFF Mods can police any part of the forum. :)

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I would be more worried about hoaxers showing up.

Hoaxers will show up. With or without a witness online community. The very title of the forums attracts all sorts of people... some of us are erstwhile witnesses though, and when people just lump us in with hoaxers I wonder if they realize just how incredibly short-sighted and unkind it is.

Personally, I think that if someone finds an area that they believe has bigfoot activity, they should keep it to themselves if they feel comfortable with doing their own research. Or they might try to solicit some trusted friends to help them, if they don't feel comfortable being in the field by themselves.

"Keep it to themselves"? If a witness is not himself an enthusiast, why wouldn't he share his encounter immediately with interested enthusiasts who are already equipped, relatively better trained and established in the region? Witnesses just keep being told to "keep it to yourself"... I just don't get it. To what end? What's the inferred agenda?

Maybe working together is what the NEW BFF needs. Heck... coordinated effort just might be what the whole blessed search for bigfoot needs! But coincidentally enough, a safe community is exactly what the neglected and scoffed-at witnesses need.

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Hoaxers will show up. With or without a witness online community. The very title of the forums attracts all sorts of people... some of us are erstwhile witnesses though, and when people just lump us in with hoaxers I wonder if they realize just how incredibly short-sighted and unkind it is.

LePetitPied, my response to Indiefoot was concerning a researcher finding a area of bigfoot activity, not concerning a witness thread on this forum. :)

But since you brought it up, I am sure that some "witnesses" that post on a bigfoot forum are doing nothing more than trying to "yank" people's chains.

"Keep it to themselves"? If a witness is not himself an enthusiast, why wouldn't he share his encounter immediately with interested enthusiasts who are already equipped, relatively better trained and established in the region? Witnesses just keep being told to "keep it to yourself"... I just don't get it. To what end? What's the inferred agenda?

Again, my point in response to Indiefoot was concerning a "researcher", not necessarily a witness, keeping his area under wraps while he spent time trying to do his research. I believe it is entirely up to any "witness" whether they want to expound on their encounter here or anywhere else. However, a witness that is also a researcher, like my self, would be better served in keeping their research and research area under wraps, in order to avoid losing opportunities to conduct hoaxer free research.

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As I pointed out to you in the other thread, we already have this in place.

No, you supplied me with two thread links. I visited them. They are just threads like all the other threads that no sane, in-the-know witness would post in. To say that these two threads constitute a witness support community at the BFF minimized the need for witness community the first time you said it to me, and isn't any less minimizing this second time around either. This is an example of the uncaring reaction from BFF staff that lurking witnesses run into at the BFF and which definitely help them to decide to vacate the premises.

Not much activity in those two threads so far.

...because the BFF's reputation for being the LAST place for witnesses to come share is still currently the way these forums are perceived...

I don't believe it has anything to do with skeptics or nay-sayers taking "liberties" on this forum.

I'm confused and vexed by this statement. But then I think I'm supposed to be. Well then, respectfully, it seems you are either a skeptic/naysayer yourself or you're new here. Anyone whose spent any time here couldn't pretend that there is no history for old BFF members to reconcile. And you can't seriously believe that just because the BFF re-booted, it's somehow just automatically understood that the reputation of the place is re-set as well... come on... get real! It's going to take a bit more inclusive-ness this time around if the BFF hopes to come to be seen as the neutral place it describes in its posting guidelines. I'm trying to inspire the kick-off of just one itty bitty part of that new and improved neutrality here. And, not unexpectedly, but with some loss of initial new-found respect, a BFF staffer feels a need to try to shut me down. Classic.

It may be that there are just not that many "witnesses" that want to post their encounter or talk about it.

Quotes around the word witnesses? Really? Are you kidding me? I wonder why 'not that many "witnesses" want to post their encounters' here at the BFF... could it possibly be the unfriendly atmosphere... or is it that bigfoot is a hoax...?

Which I believe would be detrimental to the witness posting their encounter in the first place. Posted encounters can and usually will get discussed on this forum. The more outlandish the story, the more nay saying we will probably get.

All I hear is, "keep it to yourself", "keep it to yourself", "keep it to yourself"...

We have the utmost confidence that the BFF Mods can police any part of the forum. :)

Oh yes, if you are proof, there will be some very good policing going on. I thought they were called moderators... that means helping people find fairness on any given topic, including those you have personal feelings about.

I would direct you to my original post. It clearly states that this is a thread which accepts positive, supportive posts... the naysayers have had years and years to state their case.

Edited by LePetitPied
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LePetitPied, my response to Indiefoot was concerning a researcher finding a area of bigfoot activity, not concerning a witness thread on this forum. :)

Again, my point in response to Indiefoot was concerning a "researcher", not necessarily a witness, keeping his area under wraps while he spent time trying to do his research.

...but this thread was started to discuss the potential of creating a witness community... <_<

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