Guest Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The story that Graydog keeps talking about regarding the bear stalking the female/juvenile is very reminiscent of the Kamchatkastory that was linked earlier in this thread. I have searched and can find no more stories like that, but there may be more out there. I find it interesting that several people say something along the lines of "I don't know much about bears..." but then claim that BF is 15 feet tall, throws 2000 boulders and have eye witness accounts of BF karate chopping the neck of a running deer. For one - bears are very well documented you can read volumes about them, their behavior etc. They are relatively easy to find. If you live anywhere near bear country you should have no problem viewing them, how they act, what they eat. If you do not know or understand bears and their behavior (or any other part of the natural world that BF is reported to inhabit) then how can you begin to understand BF? As far as the answer to the OP, it's going to depend on the size of the bear and the BF. Someone said "add 3 feet and 600 lbs to yourself and see how intimidating a bear is." To them I saw go out now and try to go toe to toe with a badger. They are very diminutive in size to an adult human - I doubt anyone here would be willing to take one on without firepower. BF would stand no chance against a large Grizz and honestly they would both probably avoid each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The story that Graydog keeps talking about regarding the bear stalking the female/juvenile is very reminiscent of the Kamchatkastory that was linked earlier in this thread. I have searched and can find no more stories like that, but there may be more out there. I find it interesting that several people say something along the lines of "I don't know much about bears..." but then claim that BF is 15 feet tall, throws 2000 boulders and have eye witness accounts of BF karate chopping the neck of a running deer. For one - bears are very well documented you can read volumes about them, their behavior etc. They are relatively easy to find. If you live anywhere near bear country you should have no problem viewing them, how they act, what they eat. If you do not know or understand bears and their behavior (or any other part of the natural world that BF is reported to inhabit) then how can you begin to understand BF? As far as the answer to the OP, it's going to depend on the size of the bear and the BF. Someone said "add 3 feet and 600 lbs to yourself and see how intimidating a bear is." To them I saw go out now and try to go toe to toe with a badger. They are very diminutive in size to an adult human - I doubt anyone here would be willing to take one on without firepower. BF would stand no chance against a large Grizz and honestly they would both probably avoid each other. Well, if Thing A would "stand no chance" against Thing B, in nature, one thing happens: Thing B eats Thing A. (And yes, for those who might try an extreme example to "disprove" this: caribou are documented to eat lemmings. For only one example. There.) I'd kill a badger with my bare hands. You would too. So would our wives. The question? Whether you or I or they would particularly care to endure the damage that preceded. (Me? Oh, not.) It's likely, from my read of the evidence, that neither black nor brown bear would want any part of a healthy adult sasquatch...and for the most part (with, the evidence indicates, some exceptions), they will likely take pains to avoid one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The goal in nature is not to always ingest, or even kill, what you can conquer. While there may be examples of A eating B, many of those documented incidents are the exception and not the rule. Caribou eat lemmings in survival situations when vegetation is scarce, just as there are many cases of humans eating other humans, but it is not the norm. Ruminants are not designed to effectively digest meat, and can lead to disease such as BSE. I'm pretty sure that in a death match, the birds on an elephant's back would stand no chance against the elephant - but they live in symbiosis. So I wouldn't say only "one thing happens" - a variety of things can and do happen. I usually don't like to paint myself into a corner by using absolutes, so I will back off my statement saying BF would "stand no chance." I don't think any of us (at least anyone who is sharing information) has enough evidence to make a definitive statement on that. Heck, there is not enough evidence to even prove the existence of BF. I've witnessed bears fighting in the wild, I've never seen a BF - let alone one fighting. My money would still be on the large bear. As far as the badger - you go right ahead and fight one. I'm keeping my distance. I run into them on a regular basis in the summer as I check my gopher traps. I've seen one get run over by a tractor, get up and run off. I've watched .22 rounds bounce off their heads (granted a poor choice of a round). Their loose skin would make it very difficult to grab and control. I would venture to say most people would not be successful in fending of an ornery badger - you may, but most would not. Their claws and teeth are weapons that the average person cannot match. Boot stomping, smashing with a rock or grabbing one to break the back or neck would not be very effective. The thing is a situation like this is fairly rare in a natural setting as most animals will fight until there is an escape option rather than risking unnecessary injury and wasting energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) No question about anything you say. (I particularly noted that I'm avoiding the badger.) I was making an extreme case to make the point. I wouldn't put it past the elephant, however, to eat the occasional oxpecker. ;-) We don't have enough to go on to make definitive statements. Having seen a lot of bears in the wild, however, and having read a lot of sasquatch encounter reports, I'm thinking that both animals - if they're both real, as we know one is - are smart enough to keep confrontations to a minimum. Edited February 21, 2013 by DWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 No question about anything you say. (I particularly noted that I'm avoiding the badger.) I was making an extreme case to make the point. I wouldn't put it past the elephant, however, to eat the occasional oxpecker. ;-) We don't have enough to go on to make definitive statements. Having seen a lot of bears in the wild, however, and having read a lot of sasquatch encounter reports, I'm thinking that both animals - if they're both real, as we know one is - are smart enough to keep confrontations to a minimum. Agreed. (And I did miss where you said you would avoid the badger - my bad.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Concerning the badger analogy, I think if a man is forced with killing one for survival, I think the badger is a goner. But one man, with no weapons other than what he can pick up is going to be a bloody mess at the end of the encounter. But if the badger was 200 lbs........the same weight as a man? Then the outcome is probably much different. And that's the point I keep reiterating...... 200 lbs of opposable thumbs vs. 200 lbs of teeth and claws? Those opposable thumbs had better done their home work long before the fight. And they better be holding some uber lethal weapon in their hands otherwise via con dios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cervelo Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 My pic is of one of theses guys not a badger http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine#section_2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 ^^^My rule is: If I touch a wolverine either I have a gun on it or somebody I trust does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Those who think a grizzly pumps fear in to a BF are thinking along the terms that BF is domesticated as we are. BF aren't getting manicures and walking around with man purses! They are human-hybrids (allegedly" who live and survive in the wild. They're fingers aren't like ours. I'm sure their fingers, even without claws can rip through flesh. Have you read the account posted earlier where the guy St. James was attacked by chimps? He states a chimp ripped the flesh from his face with its hands, hands that don't have claws. BF have hands that have been flipping boulders over and tearing up trees. Something living in this manner has fingers that can penetrate flesh like claws when coupled with great strength! Their bodies are different too. From running through brush that rips the skin from our bodies. I venture that it takes a lot more to penetrate their skin opposed to ours. Their bone density will be different. So while a bear biting our arm may snap the arm off, there may be too much muscle and bone in a BF arm? I'm surprised posters at this site, who I'd assume have read BF accounts conclude a bear is a predator of BF! If for the reason I read the account of a guy kidnapped by a FEMALE bf and kept in a cave. He states she brought him back BEARS to eat and she made the gesture that she killed them by hand...made the sign that she broke their necks with a twisting motion. BF are the apex predator on this continent and probably others they live on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Those who think a grizzly pumps fear in to a BF are thinking along the terms that BF is domesticated as we are. BF aren't getting manicures and walking around with man purses! They are human-hybrids (allegedly" who live and survive in the wild. They're fingers aren't like ours. I'm sure their fingers, even without claws can rip through flesh. Have you read the account posted earlier where the guy St. James was attacked by chimps? He states a chimp ripped the flesh from his face with its hands, hands that don't have claws. BF have hands that have been flipping boulders over and tearing up trees. Something living in this manner has fingers that can penetrate flesh like claws when coupled with great strength! Their bodies are different too. From running through brush that rips the skin from our bodies. I venture that it takes a lot more to penetrate their skin opposed to ours. Their bone density will be different. So while a bear biting our arm may snap the arm off, there may be too much muscle and bone in a BF arm? I'm surprised posters at this site, who I'd assume have read BF accounts conclude a bear is a predator of BF! If for the reason I read the account of a guy kidnapped by a FEMALE bf and kept in a cave. He states she brought him back BEARS to eat and she made the gesture that she killed them by hand...made the sign that she broke their necks with a twisting motion. BF are the apex predator on this continent and probably others they live on. A) I don't think anybody is claiming that bears prey on bigfoot. We are discussing the outcome of a chance territorial encounter. B ) You bring up all sorts of fanciful stories to prove your point that Sasquatch is a alpha predator. If Sasquatch is an alpha predator like a Grizzly bear or a Wolf, than they would have been hunted to extinction just like the Griz or the Wolf. I think Sasquatch is much more prone to be a berry picking, tuber digging, fish eating omnivore. Than something that runs down it's supper everyday with a little bit of greens on the side. Edited February 21, 2013 by norseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I've raised, cared for and butchered many animals that I can rip through their skins with my hands. The "domestication" of man is a big variable in this conversation that we should probably put aside. I'm not savage enough to test my theory, but I'm sure I could go kill some of my livestock with bare hands too. I'm sorry for perpetuating that scenario longer than it needed. The reason I brought up the badger thing is that size is not always the determining factor and that other true predators are probably more capable of inflicting injury on animals that are better suited to be omnivorous. Stories I have heard from first hand witneses are that BF are more omnivorous but probably capable of quite a bit of damage. As my first post indicated - most apex predators are prone to stay shy of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cervelo Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) I'd like to see if biggie would like some of this action Edited February 21, 2013 by Cervelo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I'd like to see if biggie would like some of this action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Holy COW! That's a big bear, Cervelo. Where did that monster live/die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 That bear has been floating around the net and emails for quite a while - years. A giant bruin for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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