Guest krakatoa Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I never use a tent, so I don't anticipate ever having to make that decision. It's under the stars for me, or, if threat of inclement weather, under a tarp. I feel less safe enclosed in a tent w/ no visibility. I usually camp w/ dogs, so there's always warning. Well, almost always. That one time I woke up and watched the deer walk through camp 3 feet from my sleeping mutt, clatter into the creek and drink a few minutes, and then return the way he came. On the way back the Bitte woke up and put on quite the show. In her defense, she had hiked a whole lot more miles than I that day. Another camping trip I was laying in my hammock after a 12 mile hike, and distinctly heard heavy bipedal footfalls on the slope behind me. I thought it was my buddy, but I opened my eyes and he was tending the fire. Looked over my shoulder and it was a large buck picking it's way across the slope two-legs at a stride, so two footfalls sounded as one. That was a great lesson in how easy it is to make assumptions about what you think you heard, and the importance of visual confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Lots of interesting viewpoints, I appreciate all. My disclaimer here is that none of the following is intended to kick anyone's puppy. In fact, just consider that my permanent disclaimer.. I'm maybe not clearly articulating my thoughts. I'm speaking specifically to the scads class B tent camping reports. A camper or vehicle offers some solid protection and there might be a rational to sit tight, but what makes anyone think because they are in a tent the best plan is to act like a rabbit & hope whatever is out there leaves them alone? That is what baffles me. Whether it's a couple ****, bear, monkee, or some meth-head stumbling around, If something comes visiting at night when I'm tent camping (I don't sleep very hard and relatively small noises wake me right up) I want to know what is out there in the little piece of territory I temporarily call mine. I can't imagine ever being farher than arms length from defensive firepower. Ever. I can't imagine being a quintessential victim, huddling in a tent and hoping whatever is out there finds me inoffensive enough to leave me alone. On the other hand I'm not talking about charging out laying down recon by fire. To even imply such a thing is ubsurd. I'm talking about unzipping the fly prepared with a good strong light and firepower, taking a look while being ready to defend myself, and if need be letting whatever is out there see & know I'm fully capable of & willing to doing so. Have never had it be a monkee yet and it is extremely unlikely ever to be, but someday who knows? One thing is for sure, I'm not getting Treadwelled in my sleeping bag zipped up to the neck. If I'm getting deep-sixed, at least I'll see it coming and maybe getting a couple licks of my own in. For the record, meth-heads don't scare me much. I've bagged my share of them. Most have a lousy sense of balance, crappy reactions, and don't bounce. Unlike some folks I don't trust black bear as far as I can throw them and am prepared to deal with them if need be when I poke around where they live... I recall the first **** fight I heard one night when camping on the Minnesota River & fishing with a couple buddies back in the 70s. Back then that river bottoms was about as spooky as any I've seen since. Man, those bandits fighting over a dead carp on the bank sounded like something from out of this world. We rolled out with lights & firepower to confront whatever the hell it was. Talk about a surprise. That incident cost a lot of coons their lives in the years since. I found that at night they come running to a recording of a **** fight like kids to a fight in the alley behind the school. Stupid coons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I'll never understand the mindset of those who will cower inside the house without makeing a noise while potential burglars are outside knocking trying to confirm the residence is unoccupied. Makes no sense. It's a basic psychological reaction, one we share with a great many animals. Don't move. Don't speak. Don't do anything to draw attention to yourself. "If you can't see it, it can't see you..." All the instinctive responses of potential victims in the presence of potential danger. Some people by dint of being fearless/aggressive by nature or training can either sublimate or override that response (esp LEOs, military, firefighters, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Another thought, maybe to expound a bit on other thoughts, is that if you don't draw attention to yourself whatever it is (meth head or otherwise) will take what it wants and leave. This isn't a slam against anyone either, but if I wanted to steal your stuff and I was prepared to do whatever it took to take it, the easiest person to blow a hole through would be the one with the light unzipping the tent fly. That's not defense. If I wanted to hurt someone, the guy on his hands and knees holding a flashlight while trying to find a zipper and his shoes would be about like shooting fish in a barrel. What might work better is to let the meth head, or me in this example, go through your car or cooler or whatever, think I pulled a fast one and leave without incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted April 22, 2011 Admin Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) I cannot imagine huddling in my tent if I hear something outside of it, when obviously what is outside must know I'm there. Talk about putting oneself in an indefensible tactical position!... Most people who've heard about BF and are out camping unarmed probably imagine themselves being the smaller guy on the right... Edited April 22, 2011 by gigantor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest krakatoa Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Most people who've heard about BF and are out camping unarmed probably imagine themselves being the smaller guy on the right... Dead on, except that no-one is wearing chaps in that pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Good point Ace, I think I might just order that 4 window tent. Like Art said the beasties might look at it as a sneeze guard but at least I'll know if I'm about to be the meal. As far as being on my knees with the zipper, I'm 5'7"and can stand in any of my tents. While I can understand most of the points made in favor of discretion, just not in my nature. I'm like my little old Great Aunt, I just gotta' know what goes bump in the night. I might want to bump back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest uprightchimp Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 yes, because they are scared to death when they hear or feel heavy footsteps & other noises, @ that point they try to stay as "small" & as quiet as they can-hoping to survive the night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tracker Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 If campers/researchers can be honest with themselves and admit to both being scared and hiding in their tents in this situation. Then don't call blast or tree knock if you rather be left in peace while trying to sleep. Sometimes Bf's just show up without responding to any calls. Then after watching your camp for hours they may investigate when there's no fire, noise or movement. This is also the time that dogs are at risk if leashed outside. And if someone tries to hurt them with a side arm rather than just firing warning shots. Then I hope they are also brave and handy with a blade in the dark. JMO tracker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) It's a basic psychological reaction, one we share with a great many animals. Don't move. Don't speak. Don't do anything to draw attention to yourself. "If you can't see it, it can't see you..." All the instinctive responses of potential victims in the presence of potential danger. Some people by dint of being fearless/aggressive by nature or training can either sublimate or override that response (esp LEOs, military, firefighters, etc). Very sound observation Mulder, and I concur completely... I know a guy working for an allied agency, a monsterous human being as big or bigger than the average starting left tackle in the NFL. Wears a goatee, has this look that screams "don't mess with me", and is possibly the most likably meek individual I ever knew. When I was on the street I used to look him in the chest and tell him if I was his size I would walk the street with all the subtlety of Godzilla taking a stroll through Tokyo. This gentle giant is perfectly fine if he has another officer with him but alone you can hardly get him out of the car. Everyone in LE has their defining moment, most are something you try to live up to in the future, but some are impossible to live dowm. The Big Man's is hearing a suspicious sound outside his rural home, and calling on-duty deputies to check it out rather than arming up and doing it himself. He readily admits he was afraid of what he might have had to confront out there alone. This earned him the unfortunate nickname of "Chicken Little" with the street officers... On the other hand I used to have an officer that was maybe 5'5" and 135 lbs of rawhide tough muscle soaking wet, brave as a badger and not much bigger. Squeakly little tenor voice like a ventriloquist's puppet. His nickname was "Rocky" because he wasn't so fast on the uptake, but was utterly reliable in a tough spot. He was A-Breacher on the SWAT Team I led, and carried a pack with half his weight in tools w/o slowing down or complaining. I could send him into any little hole or crawl space with a light and a handgun, and he would practically wet himself with happiness. Never backed down, never lost a fight, and never lost a prisoner once he gots his litle rat sized hands on him. He was universally respected by all and no one ever worried about their 6 when they worked with him. Yep, very sound observation, Mulder... Edited April 22, 2011 by NDT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Most people who've heard about BF and are out camping unarmed probably imagine themselves being the smaller guy on the right... Big G, that has got to be the coolest pic I've seen in quite awhile. Looking at those mother grabbers, make a guy wonder how we hairless little runt two leggers ever got the evolutionary upper hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest krakatoa Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Big G, that has got to be the coolest pic I've seen in quite awhile. Looking at those mother grabbers, make a guy wonder how we hairless little runt two leggers ever got the evolutionary upper hand... Because we hairless little runts learned the application of "force multipliers". Nature's nerds rule the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) My daughter decided to go camping while up in Canada where she was working on some special type of farm experiment related to her college degree. So she separated herself from her group, borrowed a small tent,and went camping alone. She found a snug spot under a big tree, off trail, and set up her camp. Early the next morning she was awakened by the sounds of something hitting her tent. She sat up and listened, and as she started moving around the hits increased to the tent. She sat down, picked up her flute, and started playing it. The hits to her tent stopped. She waited a while, unzipped her tent, and saw all sorts of debris on and around her tent. She immediately packed up and left. She told me this story after she returned home. She knew at that time it was too late for me to kill her for going camping alone. However, I did manage to fuss at her for camping *alone* with only a flute for defense along with her wits! Most people who've heard about BF and are out camping unarmed probably imagine themselves being the smaller guy on the right... Yikes, Did the smaller ape survive? That is one scary picture. I had my encounter outside my tent once and believe me i wanted to go outside and see what it was that was out there.But I held my ground with my gun in my hand under my pillow.I did not even lock and load because what ever it was that was outside my tent was only two feet from my head and my tent. Yes i was scared out of my wits but I held my ground and I almost held my breath and i also thought that what ever it was could hear my heart beat. What ever it was that was outside my tent was big and i did not want to move a muscle .since i have already saw a bigfoot in this area once.Everyone can say how brave they are or how they will shoot one when they see one now but when it comes down to it,that will never happen.when Dave and Jim came back from the creek that morning and i knew it was safe to come out I was glad that i made the right dicision to stay hidden in the tent .because the rock that we found on that log could have easly busted me open or i could have easly been ripped aprt ,either way that morning I could have been killed.Any training that one has cannot prepare you for the type of encounter that this creature brings.Sure i have had guns pointed at my head been shot at and that does not compare to the encounters that i have had. To julio126 and the other camping men:, After hearing about your scary encounter,and realizing how very massive these creatures are, I wonder how effective a regular handgun would be under these circumstances. If a BF started tearing up your tent would you have enough firepower to stop a creature with that massive amount of muscular mass? These creatures are not human, and I sincerely believe that it would take a massive amount of fire power to stop one of these creatures. To be frank, I think a normal police weapon would perhaps kill or stop a BF the size of Patty *only* with an eye shot into the brain, *Hopefully*. They have massive muscle mass that no other creature has to my knowledge, and I fear anything less than a powerful military grade weapon would not stop them, indeed, may not even penetrate through the chest muscles. I would consider an elephant killer grade weapon to be sufficient, perhaps.That's a 60 caliber, correct? Remember, the muscle mass would be attached to large and heavy bones, so this monster would be hard to kill, and even indeed, to seriously hurt or injure. I would not wish to anger one either, so staying in the tent is a really good idea, IMVHO. I can understand peeking out to see what is there, but making one angry would not be a good idea, again, IMVHO. I don't want to lose any of you guys to be BF attack. Edited April 22, 2011 by masterbarber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Power isn’t defined by caliber and elephant guns come much smaller than .60-caliber. My thought is the heart isn’t that deep, and a well placed pistol of sufficient velocity will penetrate to the heart of an upright animal. Something that stands upright (chest out) needs to have special defenses that protect it. When it’s upright there isn’t much to protect it’s heart; however, a bullet being a good enough example, it may penetrate the heart but that doesn’t mean the thing is going to die before killing you. A DRT (dead right there) shot really needs to be a CNS (central nervous system) shot. A heart shot is a wounded animal until it bleeds enough, and that may or may not happen fast enough when dealing with an injured giant chimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Big G, that has got to be the coolest pic I've seen in quite awhile. Looking at those mother grabbers, make a guy wonder how we hairless little runt two leggers ever got the evolutionary upper hand... Susi says: We Invented Weapons, and we are smarter. Also, Some of us actually try to *avoid* danger..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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