Call In Who To Habituation Sites?

[Guest]

I guess in a nutshell that if these creatures are governed by biological law then.. due to the sizeable amount of land and incredible wildlife management being done then there is an excellent chance left alone, they will continue to do what they apparently are doing... reaching more and more areas around the country and continent. Original thoughts follow:

I like a couple of points you make.

First, that bigfoots may well not need legislative protections. If they exist, they are very intelligent, and likely do not need help from us. Our existing habitat protection laws would likely ensure that their habitats were not eliminated for reasons having nothing to do with them.

Second, they do seem to be widely distributed, much more widely than I had thought, believing them to be endemic to the Pacific NW. Either the human mass hysteria has spread, or the bigfoots have, or we've managed to ignore long-term evidence of their widespread distribution until fairly recently (well, at least I may have). It got me to thinking -- have humans modified the environment so as to broaden the bigfoot niche? For example, by extirpating the grizzly, extirpating the wolf, or driving the Carolina parakeet or the passenger pigeon to extinction, have we somehow made more land appealing to bigfoots?

[Guest tracker]

We can't protect a species that is undocumented, but the decision as to whether to afford them protection or not is more than a matter of numbers. Assuming we're talking about protection under the Endangered Species Act, the demographics of the species has to be documented -- where does it live, in what numbers, birth rate, death rate, migration rates.

The ESA only deters law abiding people not poachers, collectors etc. And it will be more dangerous for them after their species is accepted. What could be better for their safety than having 95% of the population believe they don't exist so why bother looking for them?

And there are limits to what we can learn from only one isolated group.

JMO tracker

[Guest rockinkt]

Just out of curiosity - since hunters looking for squatch and other prey have not done any harm to squatch populations because of their alleged extraordinary abilities to escape detection - what difference would it make if one were looking for them specifically?

[georgerm]

Just out of curiosity - since hunters looking for squatch and other prey have not done any harm to squatch populations because of their alleged extraordinary abilities to escape detection - what difference would it make if one were looking for them specifically?

They do escape detection and now the forest service has built hundereds of new roads for them to travel. Many of the roads are blocked off to the public so now BF has easy hunting and travel on gravel roads.

However, random Bf shootings do occur and the ya-hoos who do it, don't report their shooting habits. These kind also poach deer, and we see poached carcasses all over the place. BF could use some help from its friends in this case. Look at some of the reported shootings:

http://lawnflowersjerkyandbigfoots.com/bigfootshootings.aspx

This is why BF runs when they see us.

2000-01; OK, McCurtain; home owner shoots a bigfoot in yard, 2 other bigfoots carry it away, FBI takes hair, blood

2000-06; WA, Pierce; hunter prevents his brother from shooting a bigfoot

2000-08; AL, Russell; camper shoots a bigfoot then abandons 'tore up' dog to the bigfoot

2000-10; WA, Lewis; road crossing by a slow moving bigfoot that appeard to be gunshot in lower back

2001 fall; IN; Morgan; hunter shoots at a bigfoot which then runs passed a second hunter

2001-04; IN, Orange; a hunter shotguns a bigfoot in face, the bigfoot is heard stumbling around in ravine

2001-08; CA, Yuba; a hunter shoots while looking at a bigfoot thru rifle scope

2001-09; WA, King; a camper shoots at a bigfoot in the dark with a shotgun and a pistol

2001-10; TX, Tyler; a bigfoot is seen standing still in backyard, followed promptly by gunshots in adjacent woods

2001-10; TX, unknown; a gunshot startles a bigfoot lying on ground, it gets up and runs at hunter who shoots at it

2001-11; AL, Coosa; hunter shoots a bigfoot standing under treestand, it runs away thru pasture, pond, and woods

2002 prior; OK, Choctaw; man shoots a bigfoot, bigfoots then throw rocks and sticks at house

2002-10; AR, Johnson; hunter shoots a bigfoot multiple times with .22 LR's

2003-05; OR, Clatsop; a bigfoot throws rock at a shooter, shooter then shoots at the bigfoot

2003-07; TN, Lincoln; man shoots at a bigfoot seen near a house the bigfoot stumbles and runs away

2003-08; TX, Hood; a running bigfoot knocks down a human and dog, human then shoots the bigfoot

[Incorrigible1]

With the money involved providing a bigfoot carcass, I've a tough time believing those involved poaching bigfoot wouldn't turn in the body for the money.

[georgerm]

With the money involved providing a bigfoot carcass, I've a tough time believing those involved poaching bigfoot wouldn't turn in the body for the money.

BF seems to defy explanation. One would think that a body would be turned in by now considering the number of shooting reports. However, most reports involve wounding BF and only a few mention finding the body. One report claimed the shooter thought the animal was human and buried the BF out of fear.

[Guest Lesmore]

"Once BF is a proven fact..."

Well as yet it isn't and peering into the future, if the past is anything to go by...BF will not be a proven, generally accepted animal, anytime soon. If ever.

I think as a result it's far too early to make plans....re; habituation sites, etc.

The phrase.....getting the cart before the horse....comes to mind. My mind anyways.

Les

[Guest]

I like a couple of points you make.

First, that bigfoots may well not need legislative protections. If they exist, they are very intelligent, and likely do not need help from us. Our existing habitat protection laws would likely ensure that their habitats were not eliminated for reasons having nothing to do with them.

Second, they do seem to be widely distributed, much more widely than I had thought, believing them to be endemic to the Pacific NW. Either the human mass hysteria has spread, or the bigfoots have, or we've managed to ignore long-term evidence of their widespread distribution until fairly recently (well, at least I may have). It got me to thinking -- have humans modified the environment so as to broaden the bigfoot niche? For example, by extirpating the grizzly, extirpating the wolf, or driving the Carolina parakeet or the passenger pigeon to extinction, have we somehow made more land appealing to bigfoots?

It is strange the mass hysteria seems dependant on rainfall. Ivan Sanderson noted in "Abominable Snowmen: Legend Come To Life" that abominable snowmen

(sasquatch/bigfoot) sightings occur in areas receiving over 20-25 inches of rainfall each year. He noted it odd that "honesty was dependant on precipitation".

[georgerm]

"Once BF is a proven fact..."

Well as yet it isn't and peering into the future, if the past is anything to go by...BF will not be a proven, generally accepted animal, anytime soon. If ever.

I think as a result it's far too early to make plans....re; habituation sites, etc.

The phrase.....getting the cart before the horse....comes to mind. My mind anyways.

Les

With the internet, BF forums, and trail cameras, BF evidence is piling up fast. It's just a matter of time before BF becomes accepted like other species that were unknown such as the Giant Panda, Coelcanth prehistoric fish, and hundereds of lesser species. Once mainstream primatologist get into the hunt, then BF will become recognized.

Look at the ornanizations below that study primates. Funny, I'll be none study Sasquatch. Why?

http://www.dmoz.org/Science/Biology/Zoology/Chordates/Mammalogy/Primatology/

Absolutely Apes - Live streaming video of and information about the orangutans and siamangs at the San Diego Zoo in San Diego, California.

African Primates At Home - Images, audio, links and data about wild monkeys and apes studied by primatologist Dr. M.K. Holder in East Africa.

American Society of Primatologists - Data on scientific primatology, research, conservation efforts, teaching aids and the society's book series.

Atlas of the Primate Brain - Searchable database of stereotactic images of the primate brain for use as templates.

Australasian Primate Society - This society aims to advance the study of primatology, both academic and applied, and promote ethical and responsible use of primates in scientific research.

Cape Peninsula Baboon Research Unit - Research focuses on baboons of the Cape Peninsula and surrounding areas and encompasses various aspects of baboon biology, including ecology, behaviour, genetics and evolution.

Comparative Anatomy and Physiology Brought Up to Date - A comprehensive review of the scientific literature questioning whether humans are natural frugivores, vegetarians, omnivores or carnivores.

Courses on General Primate Biology, Primate Husbandry, Nutrition and Handling - Advanced and specialised training courses for scientists, students, animal caretakers and other staff involved in primate research.

D Formenti’s Links: Primatology - A comprehensive list of links relating to many aspects of the biology and conservation of primates. Also literary resource links.

Duke University Primate Center - Conducts research on prosimian biology, conservation and evolution. Offers data on lemurs, lorises, pottos and bushbabies.

German Primate Center - Showcases general information, research, photograph gallery, publications and news. Based in Göttingen.

Gibbon Research Lab - Offers an introduction to the natural history of gibbons, review of systematics and singing behavior, images, articles and news.

Great Ape Trust - North America's largest research center dedicated to studying comparative cultures and the cognitive and communication abilities of bonobos, orangutans, gorillas and other primates.

Human Anatomy and Physiology - Well illustrated on-line study guide for the human biology course at Georgia Perimeter College, with study questions.

INPRIMAT: Research Infrastructure to Promote Primate Molecular Biology - A research project led by seven European institutions in primatology and molecular biology aiming to establish a phylogenetic collection of primate tissues and derivatives.

Kunming Primate Research Center - News, database, research group, images and statistics from the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

Laboratory Primate Newsletter - Quarterly publication about nonhuman primates for scientists who use these animals in their research. Archived issues from 1983.

New England Primate Research Center - Biomedical research unit affiliated with Harvard University. Data about research and education activities.

Oregon National Primate Research Center - Conducts basic and applied biomedical research with nonhuman primates. Research data and education programs.

Oregon National Primate Research Center - Provide nonhuman primate resources for scientific programs. Includes information on the Center, research undertaken, how the animals are cared for and the research services provided.

Primate Brain - Digital cytoarchitectural atlas based on high-resolution images of serial sections of primate brains.

Primate Info Net - Includes data on the International Primatological Society, fact sheets, publications, news and media resources and career opportunities in primatology.

Primate Research Institute - Kyoto University's primate resources that include general information and photographs. Based in Japan.

Primate Society of Great Britain - Promotes research of primate biology, conservation and management. Provides thorough coverage of the society's work.

Primatology.de - Research projects and their results in primatology and anthropology by Dr. Olav Roehrer-Ertl in Munich, Germany.

Primatology.net - A weblog run by primatologists, overviewing current news, books, videos and other media.

Psychoceramics: The Comparative Anatomy of Eating - Article by Milton R Mills examining whether man is an omnivore

Putting Apes (Body and Language) Together Again - A critique of two books on the language ability of non-human primates: “Apes, Language and Human Mind†by Savage-Rumbaugh and others, and “Being there: putting mind, world and body together again†by Andy Clarke. [PDF]

Regional Primate Research Center - Conducts medical research using primates at Tulane University in Louisiana. Offers data about the facilities.

South Indian Primate Research Academy - Data, pictures and related links concerning the primates and rainforests of southern India.

The Bwindi-Impenetrable Great Ape Project - Research in this National Park in Uganda centers on the ecological relationship of the mountain gorillas and the chimpanzees.

The Primata - Comprehensive site that covers aspects of evolution, morphology, ecology, social behavior, communication, conservation and taxonomy.

Theoretical Primatology Project - Provides information about the project and includes newsletters, research and links.

Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center - Center for biomedical and behavioral research with non-human primates at Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia.

"Primatology" search on: AltaVista - A9 - AOL - Ask - Clusty - Gigablast - Google - Lycos - MSN - Yahoo

[Guest]

It is strange the mass hysteria seems dependant on rainfall.

Not that strange - bigfoot folklore is closely tied to remote, forested habitat because this is where we've been told bigfoots live. Forests grow where there is abundant rainfall.

[georgerm]

BH: It’s a true story. What’s even more strange is that there is a fellow up in British Colombia, a trapper, who has a similar story. He was talking to a friend of mine, telling him about Bigfoots, and then the trapper mentions that he got kidnapped by Bigfoots once! My friend said that at that point, he stopped listening to the guy, forget it.

The guy said a Bigfoot kidnapped him and took him back to a cave where the Bigfoots were living and tried to force the guy to have sex with a female Bigfoot! Just like the Albert Ostman story, no? So it looks like maybe Bigfoots do kidnap humans sometimes for breeding purposes.

http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/bear-hunter-interview-part-2-more-outrageous-bigfoot-allegations-and-revelations/

Now we have reports of a mysterious trapper who lives with BFs. Can we find him and who will go?

[Sunflower]

Remote forests are not the only place you will find the hairy people. They will and can survive very close to small towns and in the most unusual places near big cities. I know of and am in contact with other people (not on this forum) who have them close by.

I live in a small town so when I leave it, especially in an easterly direction, I am in Nowhere, __ and it is as rural as it gets. Hubby and I have discussed this issue of being so close to rural areas and I at least have come to the conclusion that it's possible they may have followed us back home. I say "they" however I would guess just one found its way to us. I don't have a clue how this happened but several things around our home are "mysteries" and have no explanations as to what else it could be....

[bipedalist]

....Funny, I'll be(t) none study Sasquatch. Why?

Uhhhh, maybe because one of them on that list has "one" in a research facility already?

[georgerm]

Uhhhh, maybe because one of them on that list has "one" in a research facility already?

That would be cool.

I don't have a clue how this happened but several things around our home are "mysteries" and have no explanations as to what else it could be....

What happened?

We had a strange occurrence in a small town of 3000. Running through the middle of town is a dense forest with a creek. Our neighbor's apple tree was stripped one night, and the apples up high were gone as well. He borders the creek. I often wondered who would do that? How many apples can a BF eat?

We had a full gas can and wheel barrow go missing at our forest cabin along the Rogue River. I found the can up in the brush along with the wheel barrow in a different area. The cabin is locked off most of the year since only two families use it for a few weeks. We don't have bad kids that would do this. What with hands did it?

We are still in the dark ages of BFootery since most primatologist won't touch the subject with a 10' pole. Much like sailors who believed the world dropped off so they would not explore until Columbus came along. Meldrum still doesn't compare to Columbus.

[Sunflower]

We live in a house that is nearing 100 yrs old. Our garage was built around 1920 and has downspouts that have concrete (one looks like hand made) splash guards under them. The splash guard nearest to the locking type of trash cans is a later model and looks like it was made by pouring concrete into a form. Hubby took the trash out one morning and then went to the garage. I went looking for him (can't remember why) and thought he might have gone behind the garage in the alley. I happened to notice that the splash guard had a good size portion of it busted off but was not there. I could see the mark on the concrete under it as it was lighter in color. It looked exactly like someone stepped on it, it met the concrete under it and was just gone.

I found hubby and asked him what happened to it. He said he didn't know and just found it crushed. He and I went back to the scene and scratched our heads. I then asked him what happened to the missing corner and he said it was just a lot of crushed concrete and he threw it all into the alley. Well it just blended in with the crushed gravel and concrete in the alley and I could not tell which was the new stuff.