norseman

Neanderthals had better low light vision

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I read somewhere that ice age forests in europe gave way to savannahs as it warmed.

 

Thals were armed with thrusting spears and Sapiens were armed with throwing spears.

 

This would have put Thals at a disadvantage with game and warfare.

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Interesting about the throwing, so now we have witnesses saying that BF can snap the bill off their cap with a perfectly thrown rock or knock the sideview mirror off a car with a thrown stick shot like a javelin?   

 

Got to wonder how that sizes up the current motoric abilities about the species of which the forum seeks to know more?

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On 5/16/2018 at 9:08 PM, norseman said:


 

I am fighting this web browser again.   Cannot delete all of quotes.   Anyway I have had my pack hit by a rock while walking down an old logging road.      The nearest cover being 15 or 20 yards away,   no over hanging trees,  no high ground within a half mile.   Could have been a lucky throw but somehow I doubt it.   I whirled around because I heard running footsteps before I felt and heard something hit my pack.  I would rather pin the event on a well thrown rock than an invisible BF running by and hitting my pack with its hand.   But then again who can blame me for picking the rock explanation.    

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25 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

 I would rather pin the event on a well thrown rock than an invisible BF running by and hitting my pack with its hand.   But then again who can blame me for picking the rock explanation

 

Wise decision, SWWASAS. A thrown rock is way better than......uh......that other thing ;) 

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At the time of the event,  my impression was that something ran behind me from my left to my right and it was "that other thing".    But and this is a big but,   there was no cover on my right.    The area had been recently clear cut.   If something ran past,  there was no place to hide in the clear cut when I whirled around.     So the scientist in me decided that a rock had to have hit my pack.   The road was littered with them.    Cop out for sure but I just did not want to go to "that other thing" explanation.       

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Posted (edited)

HA! Don't blame you one bit. If it was me? Yep, rock.

Edited by hiflier
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On 5/16/2018 at 11:19 PM, Patterson-Gimlin said:

Thanks for sharing. Didn't work out so good for them. No longer here. 

I have seen people that I believe have dominate Neanderthal genes. Huge brow ridges , large bulbous noses, and jaw lines. If it's not, they could pass for a Neanderthal easily.

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10 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

The changing climate going onto the last ice age was likely the evolutionary driver that pushed humans out of previous ecological niches.      Ice ages tie up a lot of water and force previously fertile treed savannas into arid grass lands.   Deserts increase or form in mid latitudes during ice ages simply because of the water tied up in glaciation and thick ice caps.  .   A niche species, that is a tree or forest dweller is tied to the location.    Humans ventured out and traveled, taking advantage of their adaptive diet and efficient bipedal walk to find better locations to live.  .       Just the fact that humans are erect most of the time, puts them above most grasses and able to see predators at a distance.   BF on the other hand seems tied to forested areas, which come under much stress during major climate changes.     Perhaps they were better suited for the ice age forests than they are now?   Certainly anything that impacts forests are likely to impact their habitat.    Human logging being the largest factor presently at play.    .   

 

When Lewis and Clark came through Montana in the early 19th Century, grizzlies were common on the plains and were much larger, 1000 pounds in one recorded instance, than currently found in the lower 48. Now that they are relegated to the mountains or nearby plains, a 500 pounder is pretty large. Not sure how that may relate to Sasquatch, but maybe a factor to be considered.

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18 hours ago, bipedalist said:

Interesting about the throwing, so now we have witnesses saying that BF can snap the bill off their cap with a perfectly thrown rock or knock the sideview mirror off a car with a thrown stick shot like a javelin?   

 

Got to wonder how that sizes up the current motoric abilities about the species of which the forum seeks to know more?

 

I can tell you it doesnt make sense in our current understanding of great Apes including modern humans and Neanderthals.

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/why-are-chimpanzees-stronger-than-humans-1379994/

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16091-were-neanderthals-stoned-to-death-by-modern-humans/

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Airdale said:

 

When Lewis and Clark came through Montana in the early 19th Century, grizzlies were common on the plains and were much larger, 1000 pounds in one recorded instance, than currently found in the lower 48. Now that they are relegated to the mountains or nearby plains, a 500 pounder is pretty large. Not sure how that may relate to Sasquatch, but maybe a factor to be considered.

The story of their first grizzly encounter was very interesting.    They had heard stories and warnings about the grizzly from the NA they encountered and pretty much blew it off because they were experienced woodsman and thought they could  handle anything.   Two of them encountered the first grizzly and it charged.  One took a shot and either missed or slightly wounded it and was chased up a tree.   The second had to come rescue him.   They gave the bear due respect after that.

 

Bear and BF seem to occupy the same habitat.    Perhaps as grizzly were killed off the BF benefited from lack of competition for food resources?    If the idiots in some of these Western States have their way with reintroduction of grizzly,  we might all be on its menu.      

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On 5/19/2018 at 11:21 AM, norseman said:

I read somewhere that ice age forests in europe gave way to savannahs as it warmed.

 

Thals were armed with thrusting spears and Sapiens were armed with throwing spears.

 

This would have put Thals at a disadvantage with game and warfare.

 

I would concede that a stand off weapon is likely an advantage in hunting thin skinned game. With thick skinned critters like mammoth, mastodon, etc., not so much. WRT warfare, the Zulu might argue the effectiveness of the thrusting spear. That equation would likely change somewhat with the introduction of the atlatl, which would make the smaller and faster projectiles more difficult to spot in flight and dodge or deflect. The earliest atlatl currently known dates from about 17.5k years ago and was discovered in France, so probably wasn't a factor in warfare with Neanderthals.

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*Warning graphic*

 

This is exactly how our ancestors hunted. Numerous, cautious and persistent.....a death of a thousand cuts. They simply stood back and threw javelin after javelin after javelin. If the animal ran off.....they ran it to exhaustion. We were wiry, lanky jogger types that could jog at an easy pace all day with 10 javelin on our backs. And we probably hunted in large packs, certainly larger than Thals.

 

After watching that video could you imagine with the large game not throwing the spear. But holding onto it and getting close enough to thrust it repeatedly into a dangerous animal trying to kill you? Thals were heavily built. But when compared to a Mammoth or Wolly Rhino? Your nothing...... And yet they were successful in Europe longer than Sapiens have been in existence x2. Impressive. 

 

But it took its toll, their numbers were never high, probably as a result of lots of starvation and attrition from dangerous game hunting with a sharp stick.

 

When we showed up on scene we must have looked like Army ants to them. 

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Holy kamoly, Norse. Amazing stuff. Brutal. Fascinating. The type of hunting humans have conducted for hundreds of thousands of years.

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Posted (edited)

On 5/19/2018 at 5:18 PM, SWWASAS said:

I am fighting this web browser again.   Cannot delete all of quotes.

 

You should be able to just highlight the part of a post you want to quote and a "quote this" window will pop-up. Click that "quote this" pop-up and the part you want to quote will appear in the posting window at the bottom of the page.

Edited by Rockape
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Posted (edited)

u r dreaming rockape when the quote function sputters there is no way out ;)

 

i.d like to see those pygmies hunt giraffe that way, they would be hunting for their own heads :D

Edited by bipedalist
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