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Guest tallmonkey

If Bob Gimlin Professed The Pgf A Hoax

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Guest KentuckyApeman

If Gimlin was in on a hoax that lasted this long, I think he could make MORE money from the book he could write on the hoax, IMO, than in continuing the hoax at this point in his life.

That's an interesting angle to view it from. The book and movie deal would dwarf what he has garnered from the BF conventions/appearences he's attended over the past years. Blowing the lid off the greatest hoax of modern times would be a bonanza for Mr. Gimlin.

But as has already been pointed out, that would require factual evidence or corroboration.

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Guest Bipedal Ape

Maybe gimlim was hoaxed? So he believes he saw something real, even though it wasnt.

Wasnt there talk that gimlim and patterson were not together on that morning, giving patterson time to set up everything ?

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Guest

Call me a pedant, but circumstantial evidence is used in court all the time. It's up to the judge and jury how much weight to attach to it, but plenty of people have been executed in the US simply on circumstantial evidence. Enough quality circumstantial evidence can make a compelling case.

Mike

Quite right to be pedantic, you pedant... :lol: Good point that ENOUGH quality circumstantial evidence CAN make a compelling case. If there was enough of that, I think that reasonable PGF believers would be more swayed. Much of this argument comes down to what one puts one's faith in...There is Kit, with his great faith in the holes he sees in the circumstances... and persons such as Bill Munns, who put faith in what is on the film, tracks, etc. Personally, I have yet to see that compelling level of circumstantial evidence that would cause me to lose faith in Patty's reality- despite the best efforts of some- that for me outweigh the quality of the material evidence, i.e. the film itself shows and corroborating trackway. Others on the other side of the argument may have seen enough to compel them the other way. In the bigfooting world, it is what happens when an immovable object meets an irresistible force...as a believer in the PGF, I have to say that though I think it shows a real creature, my world would not end if the circumstantial case came together in a meaningful way. I think that the time for that case would have come much earlier than now, though. Time has introduced enough other variables that many clues from the past can be dismissed by various notions (misremembering, mis-speaking, hindsight bias, whatever else...) Anywho...

Edit to add: Bipedal Ape, you could be right, but... man, is it a gamble to leave a guy with a rifle out of your hoax. That would mean that either Patterson was hoaxed, too, or he was the kind of guy to put someone's life in danger for hoaxing purposes. That one just doesn't add up for me. Simplest answer is that they were either in it together or they saw something amazing that day...

Edited by notgiganto

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Guest LAL

If Bob Gimlin confesses I'd want to have his head examined - or want to know who put a gun to it.

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Dr. Boogie

If Bob Gimlin confessed that it was fake then I would accept his word and be very interested to hear the details, from the angle of "I'd love to know how you pulled that off" rather than trying to find faults in his explanation.

People are entitled to their beliefs but if such a confession ever came IMO the film's believers will never be able persuade the general public that it is genuine so it would never have the chance to be seen as 'proof' again.

FWIW I have an open mind on it with a slight leaning towards a man in a suit, the romantic in me wants it to be true though.

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kitakaze

So who are these people that worship the Marx family? I don't think I've ever heard a good thing about them- aside from someone like Biscardi.

These guys...

bigfoot-research051605.jpg

Are those other people around Biscardi bad people because their organization was associated with him? Biscardi sued their organization.

Peggy Marx dedicated herself to the hunt for and research of Bigfoot since 1951. She's the widow of controversial Sasquatch tracker and researcher Ivan Marx, who has been widely derided as a phony by other Bigfoot experts. Peggy insists that the photographs and film footage of Sasquatch taken by her husband are authentic and were developed and edited personally by her and her cinemaphotographer husband in their Kodak laboratory; detractors claim said photos and film footage are actually Peggy dressed up in a furry gorilla suit. Rene Dahinden claimed the Marx costumes were hand-sewn by Peggy Marx herself. Mrs. Marx assisted Ivan in training various animals for Walt Disney, specifically wolves, cougars, bears and elk for use in Disney's colorful wildlife documentaries in the late 60's and 70's. She appeared as herself and worked as a apprentice cinematographer to her husband's hugely enjoyable documentary "The Legend of Bigfoot." She's the co-founder of the Great American Bigfoot Research Organization, which is made of a full-time team of devout Sasquatch true believers involved in the continual study and eventual possible capture of the elusive creature.

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/clover_mtn.htm

How can you be talking smack about Peggy Marx and besmirching her honour like that? This is a woman who has done so much for the community and for the protection of animals. She insists to this day this was really Bigfoot...

Bf-2.JPG

Her husband went to his grave with no confession. There's no suit. Are you saying that sweet old lady is a liar? She's a legendary Bigfoot matriarch!

Legendary Bigfoot matriarch Peggy Marx is interviewed, where she discusses her husband Ivan's participation in the equally famous feature film, The Legend of Bigfoot (a personal favorite of mine from the 70s). We even get a clip to view. She denies any hoaxing on hers' or her husband's part.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/42506/bigfoot-a-beast-on-the-run/

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SweatyYeti

kitakaze wrote:

Her husband went to his grave with no confession.

He probably figured none was needed. :)

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kitakaze

Tell that to members of the Great American Bigfoot Research Organization. No, really. Go tell them no suit or confession is necessary when you are calling Marx's widow a liar. Don't be surprised when they come after you with hate and pitchforks and fire.

Go tell Peggy and Ivan's grandchildren Bigfoot researchers that we don't need a suit and a confession and that Grandma and Grandpa were liars...

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/clover_mtn.htm

Besmirch Peggy Marx's honour and it will be Bigfooter vs Bigfooter red bloody battle.

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SweatyYeti

Tell that to members of the Great American Bigfoot Research Organization. No, really. Go tell them no suit or confession is necessary when you are calling Marx's widow a liar. Don't be surprised when they come after you with hate and pitchforks and fire.

Go tell Peggy and Ivan's grandchildren Bigfoot researchers that we don't need a suit and a confession and that Grandma and Grandpa were liars...

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/clover_mtn.htm

Besmirch Peggy Marx's honour and it will be Bigfooter vs Bigfooter red bloody battle.

If they ask....I'll tell them. :)

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xspider1

Don't be surprised when they come after you with hate and pitchforks and fire.

That sounds like some of this:

Drama-Queen1.jpg

:o

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kitakaze

Yes, Peggy Marx supporters can be irate when they think you are besmirching her honour. Same with Gimlin fans...

thum_105064a097bff05e90.jpg

It's just life and you work around them.

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Guest

Kit, Sweaty and Xspider....

I have an idea- how about if you three want to start a private conversation, where you can beat each over other the heads about the Marx family- go right ahead.

This thread is about Gimlin, and a "what if" confession of a hoax from him.

If you want to discuss that- fine.

If not- take it somewhere else. I'm pretty sure I can speak for a good number of people who are tired of your ENDLESS bickering in every thread.....

ART

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Guest tallmonkey

The purpose behind this thread is a head scratcher, for me at least. Hopefully it is just to scare up some discussion...

Nothing nefarious about this topic. Just a sincere question... How much bearing does Bob Gimlin's endorsement actually have on the authenticity of the film? Does the PGF rest on Bob Gimlin's testimony or does it stand completely on its own merits? I think that's a legitimate question and someone had to ask it.

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kitakaze

My apologies, Art, I'm off topic. Peggy I think is relevant in as much that she continues to defend her and her husband's film and Ivan never confessed, but that can have its own thread. Here right now is what I really want to know...

I 100% believe that the subject is a living, breathing sasquatch, but if Gimlin were to admit it was a hoax I would have no choice but to believe him. However, inherent in that would have to be a full disclosure as to how they pulled it off, including a satisfactory explanation for how they created a suit that still can't be replicated today. If he were to admit it was a hoax but refuse to explain how they did it, I would probably wonder if he is being compelled to lie about the authenticity of his film for some reason.

agree with above.

Any such "confession" would need a credible explanation of how the film was faked and the suit made to be so unique.

All testimony (including confessions) related to the PGF should require some type of corroborating evidence or sufficiently detailed and verifiable descriptions of events to hold any proof of truth.

The film itself tells a story, far more factual and unbiased, than any person's recollection story. If the two can't be reconciled, I'll go with the story the film itself tells, any day of the week.

Bill

He would have to have a credible story and some powerful evidence before I would believe it wasn't just to shut up some critics or some of the loony theories out there. It would be hard to blame him getting tired of it even from his fans. You get people trying to take apart every conceivable detail just to call him a liar. Some of that must get old after a while.

Fortunately he seems to have a good attitude about it. If he was inclined to do that, I think he would have done it when Roger basically tried to screw him. In stead he apparently forgave him and gave up the rights to the film. Even if he did hoax it, I doubt he would be stupid enough to do something like that. That would only make him be attacked from all sides.

If he did reveal it as a hoax, he would have a lot of explaining to do regarding his 40 years of denial. But I don't think it will ever happen.

If Bob Gimlin confesses I'd want to have his head examined - or want to know who put a gun to it.

If Bob Gimlin confessed that it was fake then I would accept his word and be very interested to hear the details, from the angle of "I'd love to know how you pulled that off" rather than trying to find faults in his explanation.

People are entitled to their beliefs but if such a confession ever came IMO the film's believers will never be able persuade the general public that it is genuine so it would never have the chance to be seen as 'proof' again.

FWIW I have an open mind on it with a slight leaning towards a man in a suit, the romantic in me wants it to be true though.

For all the people that would hope for Gimlin to lay it all down for you along with a confession, I have a real very possibility to suggest everybody consider...

What if he doesn't want to lay it all down for you?

What if he doesn't want to talk to you anymore? What if it's too hard for him to do because of all this?...

BobGimlin_thanking_the_presenters.jpg

gimlin_sign.jpgBobAutumn.jpg

OSS-Gimlin+with+Graves.jpggrouppic.jpg

What if he is too ashamed to face all those people and break their hearts? All those people who raised him up so high and made him so special - what if he simply can't deal with it and goes recluse? People most know that is a very real possibility. He may be in a situation where he has no choice but to confess, but all you'll get is a short lawyer statement and an apology and no more anything. Who will want his autograph then? Who will want to dance with him? Who will have conventions for him? Who will shower him with adoration and thank him for changing their lives?

I ask this because it is a very real possibility and one I think as a community, we should think about. It's a hard question, but this is all about what if Gimlin professed the PGF a hoax.

What if he won't explain because he can't face you and someone else has to do that?

Edited by kitakaze

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Dr. Boogie

For all the people that would hope for Gimlin to lay it all down for you along with a confession, I have a real very possibility to suggest everybody consider...

What if he doesn't want to lay it all down for you?

What if he doesn't want to talk to you anymore? What if it's too hard for him to do because of all this?...

Well surely that's why Bill is taking the approach that he is? Because there's so much confusion amongst all the verbal and written evidence, who said what and when. The film just seems to the only evidence that's physical in any way

Anyway, I'm not sticking my neck out as a believer of the PGF, because I'm not. Having said that I can see why Bill has adopted the approach that he has.

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