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Why Did Patterson And Gimlin Abruptly Pull Out Of Bluff Creek On Oct. 21?

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Guest parnassus

On Oct 20, 1967, at about 615 pm, Patterson and Gimlin showed up in Willow Creek, claiming to have filmed the monster. Patterson ballyhooed his discovery, shakin hands and makin plans, phoning (or asking Hodgson to phone) this person and that expert, sitting down with McCoy and Hodgson, asking for dogs from Canada, blah blah. No one can doubt that, at that time, he really wanted numerous people to come, view, photograph, sniff, investigate, measure, authenticate, speculate, oogle, and otherwise witness the scene of the greatest zoological discovery of the twentieth century.

Yet some 12 hours later, Patterson and Gimlion pulled out of Bluff Creek, phoning Hodgson from Orleans, to tell the assembling folks to follow them out of the region. Some 24 hours later, instead of showing off his filmsite evidence, he is showing the film in DeAtley's basement, thus exposing his "film development timeline" to severe criticism.

Wha happened? (This thread is not about the film development timeline; it is about the change in Patterson's plans from Friday night to Saturday morning.)

Discuss.

p.

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Guest LAL

Bob Gimlin had to get back to work. <yawn>

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Bill

On Friday night, Roger has only made arrangements for the film's transport to DeAtlay, but does not know yet how long it will take to process, or whether some expedited processing deal can be worked out. So he doesn't yet make plans to return to Yakima.

On Saturday now aware of the expedited processing deal,(whatever that was), he knows the film will be ready for viewing on Sunday and the film is the most important piece of evidence, so he goes home to see what the footage looks like.

Change of information leads to change of travel itenerary.

Weather predictions have been discussed and could be a factor as well. (hypothetical example) If a storm is predicted, why stay for a storm?

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Guest Bigfoothunter

Wha happened? (This thread is not about the film development timeline; it is about the change in Patterson's plans from Friday night to Saturday morning.)

The only plan change that came that I am aware of was the heavy rains that came into the area in the middle of the night which caused them to barely get out of a flood plane by morning. Until then, Roger wanted to track the animal, and with a dog if possible. Roger had asked Bob to give them a few more days so to try and carry out this task, but Bob who had everything to lose had had enough. Roger then asked Bob if he'd come back for him if he stayed another week on his own and Bob declined for he didn't wish to make the long trip back. In the end, Roger left with Bob for Yakima.

As far as the film developement went ... the film box with the information that so many would like to know was sitting on the table for anyone at the showing to pick up and didn't think to do it. It appeared that Roger wasn't concerned about the timing of the film developement. If DeAtley knew a place or someone who could develope the film, then they only needed a few hours to have completed the task for the Zapruder film was copied several times over within hours of the JFK assassination.

It's too bad that this concern wasn't raised when Roger was still alive and had the film.

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Guest

Found this,

Patterson and Gimlin then headed out to an air shipping facility and shipped the film to Al De Atley. As far as we know, only one film roll was shipped to De Atley. It is reasonable to assume Patterson still had the second roll in his camera with sufficient unexposed film for a possible second sighting. The two men then contacted a reporter for The Times-Standard newspaper at Eureka, to whom they related their experience in considerable detail. It is not known if this was a telephone contact or a personal contact. We do know, however, that it took place at about 9:30 p.m. The article appeared in the newspaper the following day, October 21, 1967. The men then immediately headed back to their campsite. By the time they arrived, bad weather was closing-in. By about midnight, it was raining heavily.

In the meantime, at Patterson's request, Al Hodgson telephoned Dr. Don Abbott of the British Columbia Museum of Anthropology and asked him to come down to the film site with tracking dogs. Abbott, however, declined stating that he would wait to see the film. After talking with Hodgson, Abbott informed John Green of events. Abbott also telephoned Al De Atley and requested that the film be brought to Vancouver, B.C., for viewing by scientists at the University of British Columbia. De Atley promised he would discuss Abbott's request with Patterson.

Back at the campsite, weather conditions had gone from bad to worse. Fearing a possible landslide on the Bluff Creek road, Patterson and Gimlin decided to get out of the area. They packed up and left for Yakima at about 4:00 a.m., October 21, 1967. They experienced great difficulties getting out of the area. The Bluff Creek road had caved away so they had to take the Onion Mountain route.

After getting word from Dr. Don Abbott, John Green immediately tried to contact René Dahinden who was in San Francisco. Dahinden was not at his hotel, so Green left an urgent message for him to contact Al Hodgson at Willow Creek. After talking with Hodgson, Dahinden traveled immediately to Willow Creek, arriving at about noon, October 21, 1967. Here, he met with Jim McClarin, another investigator, at Hodgson's store. A short time later, Patterson telephoned the store from Orleans (about 26 miles north of Willow Creek). He talked to Dahinden and informed him of events. Patterson stated that the pair had left the Bluff Creek area in view of the bad weather conditions. Dahinden and McClarin thereupon headed out immediately to Al De Atley's home in Yakima to see the film.

Al De Atley picked-up the film at the Seattle airport on the morning of Saturday, October 21, 1967. He had the film processed at the Alpha Cine laboratory in Seattle and returned to his home in Yakima that same day. Patterson and Gimlin arrived at Yakima sometime on Sunday morning,

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Bill

a question was asked of my privately, if I knew of any documented communication between Roger and Al on Saturday. Answer is, no, I do not know of any documented communication. It may or not have happened. My idea posted above is speculation, since the opening thread post seems to be inviting speculative explanations. We will never know the factual explanation because Roger is deceased and can't tell us. Just wanted to clear that up, in reference to my post.

Bill

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xspider1

Thanks for the info., zigo. Camping in the rain can be a real bummer, on the other hand, watching a film that you just took of a Bigfoot Creature sounds like a lot more fun. :D

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Guest LAL

"Patterson was eager to get his film of the creature developed to ensure that he had in fact caught the creature on the film. On this point, Gimlin has stated, "We weren't sure from Roger stumbling and falling down on the sandbar and getting up and running...we didn't even have an idea that we had anything on the film at that time...in fact it was doubtful that we did have anything." They therefore decided to airship the film to Al De Atley, Patterson's brother-in-law in Yakima, for immediate processing. It appears the mens' plan was to wait for word from De Atley as to what, if anything, was on the film. This information would dictate their next move. In other words, if they had not captured the creature on film, they would stay longer and try again. The men decided they would both travel to the airport to make the shipment. This task accomplished, they would then return to their campsite. Leaving their horses tethered at their campsite, the two men started out in their truck for a local airport, probably Murray Field in Arcata. On their way, they stopped at Hodgson's store in Willow Creek to talk to their friend, Al Hodgson. As it was after 6:00 p.m., however, the store was closed. Patterson therefore telephoned Hodgson at his home. Hodgson and other friends, including Sly McCoy, thereupon met with Patterson and Gimlin, presumably at Hodgson's store. Patterson and Gimlin then related their experience to their friends. Also, during this time Patterson telephone Al De Atley to inform him of the pending film shipment. Patterson shipped the film to the Seattle, Washington airport for pick-up by De Atley the next day.

Patterson and Gimlin then headed out to an air shipping facility and shipped the film to Al De Atley. As far as we know, only one film roll was shipped to De Atley. It is reasonable to assume Patterson still had the second roll in his camera with sufficient unexposed film for a possible second sighting. The two men then contacted a reporter for The Times-Standard newspaper at Eureka, to whom they related their experience in considerable detail. It is not known if this was a telephone contact or a personal contact. We do know, however, that it took place at about 9:30 p.m. The article appeared in the newspaper the following day, October 21, 1967. The men then immediately headed back to their campsite. By the time they arrived, bad weather was closing-in. By about midnight, it was raining heavily.

In the meantime, at Patterson's request, Al Hodgson telephoned Dr. Don Abbott of the British Columbia Museum of Anthropology and asked him to come down to the film site with tracking dogs. Abbott, however, declined stating that he would wait to see the film. After talking with Hodgson, Abbott informed John Green of events. Abbott also telephoned Al De Atley and requested that the film be brought to Vancouver, B.C., for viewing by scientists at the University of British Columbia. De Atley promised he would discuss Abbott's request with Patterson.

Back at the campsite, weather conditions had gone from bad to worse. Fearing a possible landslide on the Bluff Creek road, Patterson and Gimlin decided to get out of the area. They packed up and left for Yakima at about 4:00 a.m., October 21, 1967. They experienced great difficulties getting out of the area. The Bluff Creek road had caved away so they had to take the Onion Mountain route.

After getting word from Dr. Don Abbott, John Green immediately tried to contact René Dahinden who was in San Francisco. Dahinden was not at his hotel, so Green left an urgent message for him to contact Al Hodgson at Willow Creek. After talking with Hodgson, Dahinden traveled immediately to Willow Creek, arriving at about noon, October 21, 1967. Here, he met with Jim McClarin, another investigator, at Hodgson's store. A short time later, Patterson telephoned the store from Orleans (about 26 miles north of Willow Creek). He talked to Dahinden and informed him of events. Patterson stated that the pair had left the Bluff Creek area in view of the bad weather conditions. Dahinden and McClarin thereupon headed out immediately to Al De Atley's home in Yakima to see the film."

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/biology/pgf_history.htm

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Wheellug

Thought they were already pushing it by staying there so long. Gimlin was to go back to work and would have left a few days earlier had not Roger talked him into staying.

Why would they have stayed?

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bipedalist
BFF Patron

On Oct 20, 1967, at about 615 pm, Patterson and Gimlin showed up in Willow Creek, claiming to have filmed the monster. Patterson ballyhooed his discovery, shakin hands and makin plans, phoning (or asking Hodgson to phone) this person and that expert, sitting down with McCoy and Hodgson, asking for dogs from Canada, blah blah. No one can doubt that, at that time, he really wanted numerous people to come, view, photograph, sniff, investigate, measure, authenticate, speculate, oogle, and otherwise witness the scene of the greatest zoological discovery of the twentieth century.

Yet some 12 hours later, Patterson and Gimlion pulled out of Bluff Creek, phoning Hodgson from Orleans, to tell the assembling folks to follow them out of the region. Some 24 hours later, instead of showing off his filmsite evidence, he is showing the film in DeAtley's basement, thus exposing his "film development timeline" to severe criticism.

Wha happened? (This thread is not about the film development timeline; it is about the change in Patterson's plans from Friday night to Saturday morning.)

Discuss.

p.

Backhoe rental return came first! tongue.gif

(j/k)

Edited by bipedalist

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Guest

Seems like you are deep in Tribal Bigfoot? great book and well researched for this field.

I did not read Hoopla.

Paulides does a good job in that line of questioning.

I don't think answers now, 50 years later will be forthcoming here, but I don't know what do we do here, but question...so it's all good right?!

MK Davis has a great site and some good break down of the footage, if not controversial, on the topic of that day.

Here's my opinion for what it 's worth.

I don't care so much. It's way old news.

Patterson died, Gimlin sticking to his story, as the others.

If they shot a BF and skinned and sent to Slick's estate..when did he die..about then? Or Titmus, whatever?

Well, that was then. Times have changed, people change. There are others (if you believe that a BF died or was shot or tracked with dogs) filling those horrific shoes today as we write.

I think Smeja, it the story is true, should sit up and take notice how really deep people question this stuff!

So, I guess my response is a bit over the top..but I have been waiting to say that to someone!

I have done the drive myself, in 2009. it's a heck of a drive on today's roads...hard to believe, yeah. I go with Paulides so far.

Don't forget to also throw Laverty in there, why was he there the next day.or following Monday? Which is it?

Why is Rene's pipe in his photos of the tracks? LOL

I guess the wait for the Ketchum study is just taking too long!!!

Edited by apehuman

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Guest LAL

If they shot a BF and skinned and sent to Slick's estate..when did he die..about then?

"Saturday night at about 6 p.m., October 6, 1962, Slick and pilot Shelly Sudderth of Dallas were killed in the crash of their Beechcraft Bonanza 35."

Loren Coleman. Tom Slick: True Life Encounters in Cryptozoology (Kindle Locations 1951-1952). Kindle Edition.

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Guest parnassus

On Friday night, Roger has only made arrangements for the film's transport to DeAtlay, but does not know yet how long it will take to process, or whether some expedited processing deal can be worked out. So he doesn't yet make plans to return to Yakima.

On Saturday now aware of the expedited processing deal,(whatever that was), he knows the film will be ready for viewing on Sunday and the film is the most important piece of evidence, so he goes home to see what the footage looks like.

Change of information leads to change of travel itinerary.

Weather predictions have been discussed and could be a factor as well. (hypothetical example) If a storm is predicted, why stay for a storm?

Bill,

let's stick to the materials available in 1967....lol... your idea is that he called DeAtley at 7am from camp on his non-existent cellphone? I don't think so. Before they got to the phone, they had already made the decision, packed up, broken camp, driven out 20 miles of bad road.

But more importantly and more basic to the discussion is that as of Friday night Patterson was committed to staying in Bluff Creek for several days. He was gonna host the enthusiasts and experts who had "certified" the Blue Creek mountain tracks in August, when they took several days to do their various photography, dog work, casting, and head scratching. So on Friday afternoon he had no plan to appear in Yakima late Saturday night and stage a showing on Sunday, so he had no reason to try to convince DeAtley to finance some sort of heroic charter flight out of some rural airport at night in bad weather. And similarly no reason to try to convince DeAtley to drive back and forth to Seattle, spending a thousand bucks to get a home movie developed on a weekend. (Not to mention the fact that there is no evidence that these things actually happened, but this thread is not about those issues.)

I do agree that a change in something probably occurred between very late Friday night and early Saturday morning. There weren't many things happening at that time of day/night, in Bluff Creek, cut off from all outside information or indeed other human contact. The rain is a logical candidate. But what about the rain?

And I think it is important to distinguish between a change in itinerary and a change in plan. Patterson had a plan, he was trying to accomplish something. And he changed his plan.

p.

The only plan change that came that I am aware of was the heavy rains that came into the area in the middle of the night which caused them to barely get out of a flood plane by morning. Until then, Roger wanted to track the animal, and with a dog if possible. Roger had asked Bob to give them a few more days so to try and carry out this task, but Bob who had everything to lose had had enough. Roger then asked Bob if he'd come back for him if he stayed another week on his own and Bob declined for he didn't wish to make the long trip back. In the end, Roger left with Bob for Yakima.

As far as the film developement went ... the film box with the information that so many would like to know was sitting on the table for anyone at the showing to pick up and didn't think to do it. It appeared that Roger wasn't concerned about the timing of the film developement. If DeAtley knew a place or someone who could develope the film, then they only needed a few hours to have completed the task for the Zapruder film was copied several times over within hours of the JFK assassination.

It's too bad that this concern wasn't raised when Roger was still alive and had the film.

BFH:

I think the "heaviness" of the rains is potentially an issue, and that should be discussed. My impression is that the rain was not "heavy," as judged by the photographs of the imprints and the casts taken a couple days later. There is no evidence that I know of that it was of a degree or duration to cause fear of flooding. And even if by some chance they were afraid of that, they could simply have moved to higher ground and waited around for a few hours, rather than abandon the plan to have the experts authenticate their find.

(I repeat, this thread is not for discussion of the mailing/film development issues except as they would have been part of Patterson's plan at the time. )

p.

Found this,

Patterson and Gimlin then headed out to an air shipping facility and shipped the film to Al De Atley. As far as we know, only one film roll was shipped to De Atley. It is reasonable to assume Patterson still had the second roll in his camera with sufficient unexposed film for a possible second sighting. The two men then contacted a reporter for The Times-Standard newspaper at Eureka, to whom they related their experience in considerable detail. It is not known if this was a telephone contact or a personal contact. We do know, however, that it took place at about 9:30 p.m. The article appeared in the newspaper the following day, October 21, 1967. The men then immediately headed back to their campsite. By the time they arrived, bad weather was closing-in. By about midnight, it was raining heavily.

In the meantime, at Patterson's request, Al Hodgson telephoned Dr. Don Abbott of the British Columbia Museum of Anthropology and asked him to come down to the film site with tracking dogs. Abbott, however, declined stating that he would wait to see the film. After talking with Hodgson, Abbott informed John Green of events. Abbott also telephoned Al De Atley and requested that the film be brought to Vancouver, B.C., for viewing by scientists at the University of British Columbia. De Atley promised he would discuss Abbott's request with Patterson.

Back at the campsite, weather conditions had gone from bad to worse. Fearing a possible landslide on the Bluff Creek road, Patterson and Gimlin decided to get out of the area. They packed up and left for Yakima at about 4:00 a.m., October 21, 1967. They experienced great difficulties getting out of the area. The Bluff Creek road had caved away so they had to take the Onion Mountain route.

After getting word from Dr. Don Abbott, John Green immediately tried to contact René Dahinden who was in San Francisco. Dahinden was not at his hotel, so Green left an urgent message for him to contact Al Hodgson at Willow Creek. After talking with Hodgson, Dahinden traveled immediately to Willow Creek, arriving at about noon, October 21, 1967. Here, he met with Jim McClarin, another investigator, at Hodgson's store. A short time later, Patterson telephoned the store from Orleans (about 26 miles north of Willow Creek). He talked to Dahinden and informed him of events. Patterson stated that the pair had left the Bluff Creek area in view of the bad weather conditions. Dahinden and McClarin thereupon headed out immediately to Al De Atley's home in Yakima to see the film.

Al De Atley picked-up the film at the Seattle airport on the morning of Saturday, October 21, 1967. He had the film processed at the Alpha Cine laboratory in Seattle and returned to his home in Yakima that same day. Patterson and Gimlin arrived at Yakima sometime on Sunday morning,

Zig,

I appreciate your putting up this material. I think it must come from one of those Chris Murphy books, and is largely speculation, paraphrasing and wishful thinking on his part. Again, I raise the point that Patterson, on Friday afternoon, had no apparent reason (or likelihood of success) to try to convince DeAtley to put out the equivalent of today's several thousand dollars for some emergency shipment/development of the film, when he (Patterson) was not coming home for several days. I note the statement about leaving on account of "the bad weather conditions." Did this come from Dahinden? I think it would be very helpful if you and/or others could provide more weather information, and/or the statements of Patterson or Gimlin or Dahinden or Hodgson or McCoy on these issues (but let's not get into the issues of the mailing/developing, except as it applies to Patterson's plans on Friday night and Saturday morning).

I will say parenthetically that I have on occasion made plans for expeditions and ended up sitting in camp until rains let up or roads dried out a bit. Furthermore, while anything is possible, we have no evidence that "flash flooding" would have occurred in that area and my experience in similar terrain on Idaho river expeditions is that river/creek flow increases only gradually in forested areas, even with several days of substantial rainfall.

p.

a question was asked of my privately, if I knew of any documented communication between Roger and Al on Saturday. Answer is, no, I do not know of any documented communication. It may or not have happened. My idea posted above is speculation, since the opening thread post seems to be inviting speculative explanations. We will never know the factual explanation because Roger is deceased and can't tell us. Just wanted to clear that up, in reference to my post.

Bill

Bill,

thanks, duly noted.

p.

Edited by parnassus

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Guest

At first glance, it would seem that the rain storm was fortuitous. If you were creating a hoax, the last thing you would want are people snooping around the site of the hoax.

By notifying all about the adventure after (presumably) checking the weather forecasts, Patterson would be able to generate immediate interest and present the image of a fellow wanting to go back in and track the elusive beast. But then the rain began falling, and it was dangerous to stay put. Had to leave. (Hopefully, any trace evidence of a hoaxing would be swept away by the rain).

Perfect timing for a rain, as relating to investigating a trackway crossing a creek-bed. (As we know, though, several prints survived the rain).

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