Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Martin

24 Hrs At Bluff Creek

Recommended Posts

Martin

IMHO, Kitakaze makes a compelling case painting Patterson as a potential hoaxer. Munns follows with a reasonable explanation that Bob H could have been involved filming elsewhere.

Bob H. has passed the polygraph but his details are sketchy at best.

The suit claimed doesn't seem to match.

I do not put much weight in the conflicting accounts put forth by Patterson and Gimlin. Stories evolve and that is human nature.

What does Bob H. say happened in the 24 hrs before filming?

Has anyone bothered to ask?

Why?

Martin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Kerchak

Hehe it depends on which particular 24 hours you mean.

The 24 hours before filming in the version where Bob H says filming took place in early October?

Or the 24 hours before filming in the version where Bob H says filming took place on the same day as Patterson went into town to announce it and before the footage was developed (i.e 20th October).

Bob H can't even get his story straight about when it was filmed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

In my opinion the only thing I have seen proven in the never ending discussion, is these guys where not capable of pulling off a hoax of this nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kitakaze

IMHO, Kitakaze makes a compelling case painting Patterson as a potential hoaxer. Munns follows with a reasonable explanation that Bob H could have been involved filming elsewhere.

Bob H. has passed the polygraph but his details are sketchy at best.

The suit claimed doesn't seem to match.

I do not put much weight in the conflicting accounts put forth by Patterson and Gimlin. Stories evolve and that is human nature.

What does Bob H. say happened in the 24 hrs before filming?

Has anyone bothered to ask?

Why?

Martin

Yes, I have bothered to ask, Martin, as I know Bob Heironimus personally and have interviewed him numerous times and at great length.

No matter what one personally believes, one can not deny the truth regarding the PGF. It was a cashgrab by Roger Patterson and Al DeAtley that manipulated the help of Bob Gimlin and Bob Heironimus. Whether you think they seriously filmed a living Bigfoot in a place that was just thoroughly hoaxed only one month before and had been a hoaxing gong show for almost ten years or that they executed a hoax for money is secondary to that.

What happened 24 hours prior to Bluff Creek is a good question and one I can address in detail. First we need to go back before 24 hours to earlier in the week. It was Friday or Saturday that Patterson and Gimlin came to Bob Heironimus' house to get Chico. This is the part that intransigent PGF believers hate - they absolutely can not deny that when going to Bluff Creek, Roger and Bob stopped at the house of the only person ever to claim to be Patty to get his horse.

Now what is interesting here is how Gimlin is the man out and how Patterson and Heironimus confirm one another. Heironimus' horse was there at Bluff Creek under Gimlin's butt. Heironimus in interviews with me said they had his horse for about eight days. He said Roger and came to get Chico on Friday or Saturday to get Chico and he came after on a Tuesday or Wednesday, as instructed by Patterson. Now ask Gimlin about Bluff Creek and he will tell you a story about it being three weeks. That's not what Patterson reported. On October 20th, 1967, Patty Day, Roger Patterson told reporter Al Tostado of the Eureka Times-Standard that he had been there only a week having arrived the previous Saturday. Here it is right here...

20060612153505832_1_original-701366.jpg

Now this isn't some random paper Roger's on the phone with. It's a paper whose managing editor just happens to be in cahoots with the area's main Bigfoot hoaxer, Ray Wallace. His name is Laurence "Scoop" Beal and his paper has been Bigfoot central since the whole thing started back in '58...

Bigscoop.gif

Come on down to Eureka and see the friendly Bigfoots! Bring the family! Spend money! Buy a newspaper and read all about it!

Buhs_fig12.jpeg

Never seen that anywhere before, right? Right...

1.1218889980.the-sign-outside-the-tourist-shop.jpg

So Roger and Bob G grab Chico from his friend Bob H and they go down to Bluff Creek. Bob H comes the following Tuesday or Wednesday. He is adamant that this was not the week leading up to the 20th, but rather the first or second week of October. We don't know for sure which week it is and believers like Gigantofootecus will try and play on that uncertainty. Is it Chico on reel one or isn't it? It doesn't matter because they did take Chico and there is no denying the use of Heironimus' horse for Bluff Creek. It could have been the first week which would account for why Gimlin makes the whole thing out to have been three weeks from either the last day of September (which was a Saturday) or the first of October (which was a Sunday), or it could have been after that. What it certainly wasn't was these guys driving around the way they said happened and the filming being developed in the secretive manner Patterson said he could not dicuss. That's apologist believer territory.

So on the Tuesday or Wednesday that Heironimus left, he borrow his mothers brand new 1967 Buick similar to what you see here...

21046380002_large.jpg

He didn't take his own ride because it was a gas guzzling Corvette. What Bob did then was to drive straight there and meet Roger and Bob at the Bluff Creek Company Store at 5pm...

savebfhistory.jpg

Bob was proud of the fact that he was able to make it there exactly on time. What happened then was that either Patterson or Gimlin approached Heironimus' vehicle and told him to drive down 96 and wait at a turn-around for them as they did not want to be seen together. They met at the trun-around, chatted for a few minutes, then BH followed P&G to the area where they hid Bob's mother's car, scratching it in the process, which his mother Opal witness later with her Bob's aunt. They went to the campsite where they spoke more for a while. Believers like Sweaty will ask why they didn't discuss the suit and features believed to be in it, like an inner muscle suit. What they did or didn't dicuss is not known and subjective perceptions don't dictate it. That night Bob Heironimus slept in the overhang of Gimlin's truck which you can see here...

89614c840a9562802.jpg

That's the original truck, but not the original horse rig. The next day they woke up and shot the film as has already been described many times and I won't get into unless you would like me to detail it for you.

Edited by kitakaze

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SweatyYeti

kitakaze wrote:

Believers like Sweaty will ask why they didn't discuss the suit and features believed to be in it, like an inner muscle suit.

What they did or didn't dicuss is not known.......

What they did or didn't dicuss is not known....by Bob Heironimus. :)

Neither does Heironimus know anything about how he accomplished this feat...

BobPattyArms-FingerMoveAG2.gif

Bob knows nothing.....because he was not Patty.

Edited to add...

Bob...."mirrored"...

BobMirroredHaHa.jpg

What a perfect match! :)

Edited by SweatyYeti

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kitakaze

Sweaty posted in a thread asking what Bob did before the shooting of the PGF. Odds of gif spam: 99.99%.

Who cares if Patty's fingers bend? Blevins had no hand extensions here, just shoulder pads and his own average human arms...

Bigblevins1.jpg

His hands still went into the gloves and he could still bend his fingers.

Please don't spam every single thread with the same gifs over and over. If you don't think Heironimus was Patty, that's just fine. Bill can understand that there is no reason to dismiss Heironimus as a liar and that he may very well have been filmed by Roger in a suit at Bluff Creek. You can act as if intransigence hasn't invaded your every argument concerning Heironimus and that there is some sliver of possibility that you could consider he isn't lying.

If someone would like to discuss the notion in the appropriate thread that Heironimus was in a hoax with Patterson and Gimlin but they didn't use that and miraculously filmed a real Bigfoot after filming a fake one, I will gladly discuss it in the appropriate thread and rest assured, I won't post any images related to Patty's proportions.

Edited by kitakaze

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Kerchak

kitakaze wrote:

What they did or didn't dicuss is not known....by Bob Heironimus. :)

He does (wrongly) state that the three of them travelled up the road on horseback with the suit in a some kind of sack then they all got off the horses, looked around and listened out for anyone coming up this road...then went off this road a ways and made the film in a spot where nobody could see them.

Yet the film actually begins ON the road. Roger was standing ON the road when he turned the camera on. It's as clear as day in the film. It's not even possible to have been on that sandbar where nobody could see them. There is a clear unobstructed view from the road right across to the forested hillside in the background. We know because IT'S IN THE FILM!

Oooops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roguefooter

Now what is interesting here is how Gimlin is the man out and how Patterson and Heironimus confirm one another. Heironimus' horse was there at Bluff Creek under Gimlin's butt. Heironimus in interviews with me said they had his horse for about eight days. He said Roger and came to get Chico on Friday or Saturday to get Chico and he came after on a Tuesday or Wednesday, as instructed by Patterson.

If they borrowed Chico for 8 days as part of a group of 3 horses, then why does Heironimus claim there were only two horses when he got to Bluff Creek? Chico may have been there, but not Heironimus.

Now this isn't some random paper Roger's on the phone with. It's a paper whose managing editor just happens to be in cahoots with the area's main Bigfoot hoaxer, Ray Wallace. His name is Laurence "Scoop" Beal and his paper has been Bigfoot central since the whole thing started back in '58...

http://library.humboldt.edu/nwcnews/place/eureka.html#1967

"1900-1967. This period ended with the emergence of the Times-Standard as the only daily newspaper of Humboldt County."

Is Roger going to the ONLY daily paper some kind of conspiracy?

He didn't take his own ride because it was a gas guzzling Corvette. What Bob did then was to drive straight there and meet Roger and Bob at the Bluff Creek Company Store at 5pm...

Except that Heironimus said he met them at Willow Creek- he even specified it was the town with the Bigfoot Museum.

What happened then was that either Patterson or Gimlin approached Heironimus' vehicle and told him to drive down 96 and wait at a turn-around for them as they did not want to be seen together. They met at the trun-around, chatted for a few minutes, then BH followed P&G to the area where they hid Bob's mother's car, scratching it in the process, which his mother Opal witness later with her Bob's aunt. They went to the campsite where they spoke more for a while.

Heironimus said they only traveled about 2-3 miles to the site. Where did Heironimus go? Because it wasn't the film site which was a good 20+ miles away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LAL

Not only 20+ miles but up a winding road. He told Long 4-5.

"Confusion over which towns are where in that part of California might be explained by the passing of more than 30 years, but not "about four, maybe five miles" up the Bluff Creek Road from the highway. It would have been more than 20 miles of twisting dirt road, and not easy miles, well over an hour's drive, and not a forgettable one."

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/reviews/long.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Primate

Could the Buick really have been THAT much better then the Corvette for gas mileage ??

Gas was still what , about 50 cents a gallon..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kitakaze

If they borrowed Chico for 8 days as part of a group of 3 horses, then why does Heironimus claim there were only two horses when he got to Bluff Creek? Chico may have been there, but not Heironimus.

Because for Heironimus' trip and for the eight days they used Chico, there were not three horses. People think like as if Patterson only went once to Bluff Creek in 1967. he was there a number of times. Ask Al Hodgson. Roger went more than once to NorCal in 1967...

Bigexpedition5.jpg

In my interviews with Heironimus, he described to me at Bluff Creek there being two horses - Chico and a grey mottled horse ridden by Patterson. Grey mottled horse and Chico. Hmm... Where have a seen such together before. Wait, I know...

Here it is right beside Chico...

Lund-Horsemen+in+Yakima.JPG

And here it is again beside Chico...

896149ab1a3ecb321.jpg

Boy, is that messed up. Patterson's on Chico, not Peanuts. Gimlin's on the grey mottled horse, not Chico, and that's not the white packhorse?

But wait a minute. Everyone thinks Peanuts was at Bluff Creek. No, Peanuts wasn't. It was some other horse...

Bigrogercastdisplay6.jpg

Peanuts is the horse Patterson is on in the cowboy photo above John Ballard whom he got the horse from (it was his son's and Patterson loved it because it made him look bigger).

http://library.humbo...ureka.html#1967

"1900-1967. This period ended with the emergence of the Times-Standard as the only daily newspaper of Humboldt County."

Is Roger going to the ONLY daily paper some kind of conspiracy?

Step 1: You come to the place where you find that wait a minute, I already accept that Ray Wallace was hoaxing all over the area for years, and then wait a minute, yes, by his wife's own admission, the managing editor of that newspaper was conspiring with area hoaxers to promote Bigfoot belief and publicity.

Step 2: You come to terms with the part where we already have many good reasons to think Patterson has been hoaxing since the early 60's at least.

Step 3: You find a place inside where you can accept that Patterson and Wallace were associates.

Step 4: You chew on the fact that not only were Patterson and Wallace associates, Wallace was also visited by DeAtley prior to the PGF being filmed and it was this visit that brought to Wallace's attention that DeAtley was funding Pattterson's Bigfoot venture. Yes, that guy who claimed no belief in it whatsoever and scorned Bigfoot chasers.

Step 5: Congratulations, you've realized there was conspiring going on and in no way is it unreasonable to make a local connection that Patterson was not only witness to hoaxing, but had the motive, the means, and the placement at the scene to be part of that hoaxing.

Except that Heironimus said he met them at Willow Creek- he even specified it was the town with the Bigfoot Museum.

Excellent. You've allowed Heironimus 35+ years to mix up Willow Creek with the much harder to remember Weitchpec. You know Willow Creek didn't have a Bigfoot museum in 1967.

Heironimus said they only traveled about 2-3 miles to the site. Where did Heironimus go? Because it wasn't the film site which was a good 20+ miles away.

You're going to stop, have a good think, and then tell people about how you cracked open your copy of Long's book and tell people about the time you read that Heironimus says he drove three miles from where he met P&G in town to Bluff Creek Rd, then he followed them up into the mountains about 4-5 miles, stopped, hid the car, went another half mile to the camp, camped over night, and then another half a mile to the film site from the campsite. His description quite closely echoes Jim McClarin's.

After you do that you can ask me the distance in kilometers from Nanaimo to Courtney on Vancouver Island and we'll see how good I do after not having been to Courtney for so many years even though I stayed an entire summer there about 14 years ago. No googles, I promise. If I get it as much as half off, you can accept me as being human to the same extent you grant for Patterson, Gimlin, and Heironimus.

You can then further congratulate yourself for, at least in one instance, not having contributed to can't win for losing in Bigfootery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Primate

Not really Kit YOU'VE allowed Bob H to confuse Waitchpec with Willow Creek . For me , having been to both , It's a pretty hard sell ..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kitakaze

Could the Buick really have been THAT much better then the Corvette for gas mileage ??

Gas was still what , about 50 cents a gallon..

A 1962 C1 Corvette rolling out of the plant has a 327 V8 250 HP engine with about 10 mpg. Heironimus' was modified for drag racing. It had low rear-end gears and the gas consumption shot up the faster it went. This is without factoring in winding mountain roads and taking your drag racer for a trip across three states into the mountains.

We don't know if his mother's 1967 Buick was a Skylark, a Le Sabre, or whatever, but it was brand new, a sedan, not used for drag racing or modified and we can safely assume a much better car for such a long road trip than Bob's dragster.

You're 26 and you're going to the mountains of Bluff Creek three states away where you've never been before. Are you going to take your ride and risk it getting all scratched up?...

original.jpg?1301312603

Or your mom's?...

21046380002_large.jpg

Not really Kit YOU'VE allowed Bob H to confuse Waitchpec with Willow Creek . For me , having been to both , It's a pretty hard sell ..

I most certainly have allowed Bob to confuse Weitchpec and Willow Creek. He's been to California twice in his life. Once with Patterson and Gimlin and once he passed through the northeast corner of the state when going with friends to Nevada. Now say you were 26, it was 35+ years ago, you were there at one of them only once, the actual place has a name like a sneeze, and let me know if you still won't grant him what you will for Patterson and Gimlin because I have a load of things we can see how forgiving you are or are not.

One week? Three weeks? Hard sell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Kerchak

I wonder if Bob H thought the ground was "as white as snow" when he was riding up to the film site on the back of the horse and the sun was much lower, and the shades from the forested hillsides on either side were stopping the sun from dazzling him???

I would have thought when he got off the horse and looked around that he would have taken more note of the ground colour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wheellug

A 1962 C1 Corvette rolling out of the plant has a 327 V8 250 HP engine with about 10 mpg. Heironimus' was modified for drag racing. It had low rear-end gears and the gas consumption shot up the faster it went. This is without factoring in winding mountain roads and taking your drag racer for a trip across three states into the mountains.

We don't know if his mother's 1967 Buick was a Skylark, a Le Sabre, or whatever, but it was brand new, a sedan, not used for drag racing or modified and we can safely assume a much better car for such a long road trip than Bob's dragster.

You're 26 and you're going to the mountains of Bluff Creek three states away where you've never been before. Are you going to take your ride and risk it getting all scratched up?...

You're a Male aged 26, you do not take your mothers car. You have a desire to display you have something to offer because you are a male whos desire to attract a female is built into your system. It's a display item.. flaunt it.

Edited by Wheellug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...