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Bill

Ane Doc. "bigfoot Man Or Beast

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roguefooter
As far as I know, Ron is in good health Roguefooter. I suspect you are thinking of Ed Ragozzino, who was the Director of 'Sasquatch, the Legend of Bigfoot' who died back in February.

Yep, my mistake.

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Point of clarification on another person addressed in this thread and of his alleged premature passing. Robert W. Morgan, the bigfoot researcher is still alive and living in Montana. The Robert W. Morgan who died in 1998 is the rather famous radio DJ from Los Angeles. I used to listen to his shows as a kid in fact and so I had prior reason to verify whether the two were the same even though I doubted it.

Ironically, RWM the DJ was born in Galion, Ohio in 1937. RWM the Bigfoot Researcher was born in Canton, Ohio in 1935. A distance of less than 80 miles. Here is a somewhat recent CM article on bigfooting's RWM: http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/robert-w-morgan/ He had a website up until recently but I wasn't able to locate it.

Robert W. Morgan has accomplished his share in a field that isn't too kind to researchers who have independent ideas. He was one of the first to openly propose that bigfoot is smarter then an ape and considered them 'Forest Giants or Forest People'. (Such gall!) :rolleyes: There is a fascinating interview he conducted of Nino Cochise (1874-1984) who was the last Apache born free, grandson of Cochise, and nephew of Geronimo. Nino encountered a sasquatch in the hot desert of the SW and stated that it was carrying a stomach bladder bag tied over his shoulder presumedly carrying water. The full transcribed interview is available in his 2008 book 'Soul Snatchers - A Quest for the True Human Beings'. I haven't read the book but have read the interview.

I've never spoken to Morgan myself but would like to hear more of what he has learned from the other Native Americans he's interviewed. I was able to relate closely in one respect to his encounter in 1957 in Washington. He was carrying a Marlin 30-30 at the time. This is the same model I was carrying 5 years ago when I had my own face-to face encounter in the woods. That's just a trivial thing for me of course and means nothing in the scheme of things. Anyway, I felt it pertinent to point out that he is still alive and that maybe the above review posted by Giganto has a few biased old school opinions. Of course its realized that your posting it doesn't mean you subscribe to all its content either and that you were merely pointing out the diffs between the two films.

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Paranassus:

It's ANE's "Bigfoot Man or Beast" No confusion. And it has a "re-enactment" of actors pretending to be Roger and Bob Gimlin with a pack horse going down a hill slope, before one segment of the real PGF Roger with pack horse segment. So it's not anything Roger produced.

And Roger never did an interview with Janos Prohaska which is in the program.

So ANE made it.

Bill

Bill are you refering to the segment in Pattersons film where Bob Heironimus rides down a steep slope or another film all together?

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Bill

River:

In the "Roger casting tracks" thread, your post #12, you show the image group. The upper left image is the sequence I'm referring to. on film, it has the "Roger" guy with the pack horse in tow going down the slope, and then camera pans up to the "Gimlin" guy behind, and higher on the slope.

That's the sequence. It then cuts to the real Roger and pack horse footage from the PGF, which is also pictured on your posted image panel. Same stuff as you posted.

I don't know where Heironimous fits in.

Bill

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River:

In the "Roger casting tracks" thread, your post #12, you show the image group. The upper left image is the sequence I'm referring to. on film, it has the "Roger" guy with the pack horse in tow going down the slope, and then camera pans up to the "Gimlin" guy behind, and higher on the slope.

That's the sequence. It then cuts to the real Roger and pack horse footage from the PGF, which is also pictured on your posted image panel. Same stuff as you posted.

I don't know where Heironimous fits in.

Bill

Bill is this also from that sequence?

darkpackhorse1.jpg

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Guest River

This photo was taken by Larry Lund. Left to Right - Roger Patterson, John Ballard, Jerry Merritt, Howard Heironimus, Bob Gimlin (wearing a wig falsely disguised as an Indian Guide) and Bob Heironimus. The gentleman in the above image is Bob Heironimus. The image you refered to (that i previously posted) was Jerry Merrit.

posse.jpg

Edited by River

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Drew
Bill

River:

Yes, that still above, the single rider and pack horse, is in the footage I have.

The group shot of all the guys I have only seen in stills in the forums, and do not have any footage of.

Bill

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River:

Yes, that still above, the single rider and pack horse, is in the footage I have.

The group shot of all the guys I have only seen in stills in the forums, and do not have any footage of.

Bill

Bill, that is Bob Heironimus and the other gentleman on horseback behind him was Jerry Merrit.

It would be wonderful if we had the original out of camera film to inspect and see where on the reels these came from sequence wise, or if even from those reels at all. The group image I posted above is from a still photograph taken by Larry Lund.

Edited by River

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Bill

River:

Just to see if I understand you, you say Bob Heironimous is re-enacting the Roger part, and Jerry Merrit is re-enacting the Bob Gimlin part, in this one scene recreating the prelude to the real footage of the Bluff Creek encounter?

Just out of curiousity, who validated the identies of the two men?

interesting idea, to be sure. Can you elaborate on how this came about, the Bob and Jerry were filmed doing this?

Thanks

Bill

added:

When I do the high resolution scans of the frames of this sequence, I'll try to find frames that have a good image of the men's faces, so we can see if we can ID them that way.

Bill

Edited by Bill

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Bill: I have no idea where you get they were playing Patterson or Gimlin parts. Why would you assume that?

I believe the gentlemen in the group photograph I posted have been identified through multiple sources including the photographer. I'm quite sure we could ask Heironimus, or Gimlin, or any of the other surviving people who is there and who isn't. Do you communicate with any of these gentlemen? If not, perhaps I can and get some "out of the horses mouth" confirmation if you're in doubt about their identities.

Edited by River

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Bill

River:

"Bill: I have no idea where you get they were playing Patterson or Gimlin parts. Why would you assume that?"

The ANE DVD program has a narrator talking over this and the real PGF guys with packhorse scene, and the Narrator talks about the strange thing that happened to Roger Patterson at Bluff Creek, so the narration of the program implies that the footage represents Roger, and his companion (Bob G, but not mentioned by name in this specific narration). I just reviewed the program a minute ago.

So The program implies the guy on horseback is Roger.

Bill

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Guest River

River:

"Bill: I have no idea where you get they were playing Patterson or Gimlin parts. Why would you assume that?"

The ANE DVD program has a narrator talking over this and the real PGF guys with packhorse scene, and the Narrator talks about the strange thing that happened to Roger Patterson at Bluff Creek, so the narration of the program implies that the footage represents Roger, and his companion (Bob G, but not mentioned by name in this specific narration). I just reviewed the program a minute ago.

So The program implies the guy on horseback is Roger.

Bill

That's interesting Bill. It would even be more interesting to find out when that particular footage was shot. Perhaps Merrit or Heironimus could help with dates on that. I would assume that the group photograph was taken sometime during Pattersons documentary that he was making before the PGF was shot seeing as Gimlin is still wearing the wig and all.

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Bill

River:

Here's a rough transcript of the program:

Grover Krantz segment showing deformed footcast with bones diagrammed:

Grover: "If this was faked, the person doing it had to be an absolute expert in human anatomy."

Image fades into man on horse leading second horse down a slope (what you say is Bob H. actually), and then camera pans up to second man behind and up the slope, and then fades into real PGF Roger on horse with white packhorse in tow, and then PGF creature footage.

Narrator: "Perhaps the most startling and far reaching event in the recent history of Bigfoot hunting happened to a long time investigator by the name of Roger Patterson. In October of 1967, he and a friend were in the Bluff Creek area of Northern California, to investigate a reported sighting of two creatures.

Suddenly his horse shied as a large creature stood erect.. . . ."

We see real PGF Creature footage starting at frame 102

That's what I know.

:)

Bill

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Drew

River:

Just to see if I understand you, you say Bob Heironimous is re-enacting the Roger part, and Jerry Merrit is re-enacting the Bob Gimlin part, in this one scene recreating the prelude to the real footage of the Bluff Creek encounter?

Just out of curiousity, who validated the identies of the two men?

interesting idea, to be sure. Can you elaborate on how this came about, the Bob and Jerry were filmed doing this?

Thanks

Bill

added:

When I do the high resolution scans of the frames of this sequence, I'll try to find frames that have a good image of the men's faces, so we can see if we can ID them that way.

Bill

I think the footage of BobH riding down the hill was shot for Roger's Documentary, ANE just had access to all of the film, and cut-in different scenes to fill their movie.

As far as the ID of the rider, check out the line-up photo, the man on the far right is BOBH, white shirt, black vest, darker hat, brown horse with white socks and white nose stripe. Now look at the hill scene and compare.

posse.jpg

darkpackhorse1.jpg

Note: this frame of the hill scene does not show the socks or the white nose stripe, but other frames do.

NOTE: I don't think either of those frames were shot at Bluff Creek.

Edited by Drew

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