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Bill

Ane Doc. "bigfoot Man Or Beast

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Guest River

River:

Here's a rough transcript of the program:

Grover Krantz segment showing deformed footcast with bones diagrammed:

Grover: "If this was faked, the person doing it had to be an absolute expert in human anatomy."

Image fades into man on horse leading second horse down a slope (what you say is Bob H. actually), and then camera pans up to second man behind and up the slope, and then fades into real PGF Roger on horse with white packhorse in tow, and then PGF creature footage.

Narrator: "Perhaps the most startling and far reaching event in the recent history of Bigfoot hunting happened to a long time investigator by the name of Roger Patterson. In October of 1967, he and a friend were in the Bluff Creek area of Northern California, to investigate a reported sighting of two creatures.

Suddenly his horse shied as a large creature stood erect.. . . ."

We see real PGF Creature footage starting at frame 102

That's what I know.

:)

Bill

Bill what you described is the same footage I linked to previously in the casting footage thread. There is also footage of Patterson with a pack horse just before what we call the PGF is displayed. I never got the impression that Bob Heironimus, nor Jerry Merrit were playing the part of Patterson and Gimlin.

I'm not sure of the source of the footage either - as far as "first or second reel" or yet another reel of footage shot previous to the "pgf" or after. Perhaps if the original out of camera films ever turn up, we can verify some of this.

Edited by River

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Bill

River & Drew:

All I can say with certainty is the footage is in the ANE program I have (on DVD), and the same footage is on the 16mm film I am scanning. When I scan it frame by frame, I'll try to get better IDs on the men and the horses.

Roger may have furnished it to ANE and they edited it their way. But why Roger would stage something like him and Bob G (with pack horse in tow) is curious. Since the ANE thing is 4 years after the PGF, if Bob H. is in it, why is he still acting in Roger's movies if Roger stiffed him out of his creature suit fee?

Lots of questions,. . . .

Bill

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Bill

Here's the best scans I'm going to get on these two riders.

Any help putting a positive ID on them will be great, but the shadows on their faces does limit us. Might help getting IDs on the horses too.

Rider #1:

Rider1scans.jpg

Rider #2

Rider2scans.jpg

If the forum limits the sizes to 1024 and anybody wants full size images (almost 4K) email me.

Bill

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Guest LittleFeat

Point of clarification on another person addressed in this thread and of his alleged premature passing. Robert W. Morgan, the bigfoot researcher is still alive and living in Montana. The Robert W. Morgan who died in 1998 is the rather famous radio DJ from Los Angeles. I used to listen to his shows as a kid in fact and so I had prior reason to verify whether the two were the same even though I doubted it.

Ironically, RWM the DJ was born in Galion, Ohio in 1937. RWM the Bigfoot Researcher was born in Canton, Ohio in 1935. A distance of less than 80 miles. Here is a somewhat recent CM article on bigfooting's RWM: http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/robert-w-morgan/ He had a website up until recently but I wasn't able to locate it.

Robert W. Morgan has accomplished his share in a field that isn't too kind to researchers who have independent ideas. He was one of the first to openly propose that bigfoot is smarter then an ape and considered them 'Forest Giants or Forest People'. (Such gall!) :rolleyes: There is a fascinating interview he conducted of Nino Cochise (1874-1984) who was the last Apache born free, grandson of Cochise, and nephew of Geronimo. Nino encountered a sasquatch in the hot desert of the SW and stated that it was carrying a stomach bladder bag tied over his shoulder presumedly carrying water. The full transcribed interview is available in his 2008 book 'Soul Snatchers - A Quest for the True Human Beings'. I haven't read the book but have read the interview.

I've never spoken to Morgan myself but would like to hear more of what he has learned from the other Native Americans he's interviewed. I was able to relate closely in one respect to his encounter in 1957 in Washington. He was carrying a Marlin 30-30 at the time. This is the same model I was carrying 5 years ago when I had my own face-to face encounter in the woods. That's just a trivial thing for me of course and means nothing in the scheme of things. Anyway, I felt it pertinent to point out that he is still alive and that maybe the above review posted by Giganto has a few biased old school opinions. Of course its realized that your posting it doesn't mean you subscribe to all its content either and that you were merely pointing out the diffs between the two films.

Good post PT. Robert Morgan is an underrated player in the BF world who IMO pioneered the passive approach to BF research, apparently with good success. I used to enjoy listening to his weekly radio show.

His book, Soul Snatchers, is a spiritual journey into Native American culture. It's a very thought provoking look at their beliefs and customs surrounding BF. I liked the book, but some may think it's a little "out there".

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Guest Kerchak

Good post PT. Robert Morgan is an underrated player in the BF world who IMO pioneered the passive approach to BF research,

Yes there is an interesting 'disagreement' he is having with Green and Dahinden in that documentary.

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Bill

Drew:

I checked the link, and did not see anything which would lead me to ID the second rider as Jerry Merrit.

Could you post some type of summary description of who, how and when determined that second rider to be Jerry?

Thanks.

Bill

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parnassus

Bill, you can read Jerry Merritt's comments about the shooting of the film on p. 109 and elsewhere in the marvelous resource, "The Making of Bigfoot: The Inside Story," by Greg Long, 2004, including who shot the film, what horse Merritt was riding, and other interesting details. I would highly recommend this book to you, since you are very interested in the making of the Patterson Gimlin film, and that is the subject of the book. I think you can get it on Amazon for a song. There are a few mistakes in it, like when he confuses the right foot for the left, but then, everyone makes a mistake once in a while, right? It's certainly the best source of information I know of. Has some good images, a lot of transcribed recorded statements from eyewitnesses and participants, some of whom are no longer with us. Even John Green wrote, in part: "Long obviously worked ******* his book and I learned some things from it..."

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parnassus

Bill, you can read Jerry Merritt's comments about the shooting of the film on p. 109 and elsewhere in the marvelous resource, "The Making of Bigfoot: The Inside Story," by Greg Long, 2004, including who shot the film, what horse Merritt was riding, and other interesting details. I would highly recommend this book to you, since you are very interested in the making of the Patterson Gimlin film, and that is the subject of the book. I think you can get it on Amazon for a song. There are a few mistakes in it, like when he confuses the right foot for the left, but then, everyone makes a mistake once in a while, right? It's certainly the best source of information I know of. Has some good images, a lot of transcribed recorded statements from eyewitnesses and participants, some of whom are no longer with us. Even John Green wrote, in part: "Long obviously worked ******* his book and I learned some things from it..."

well, this is really pretty fancy censoring software. The bleeped out words are "hard" and "on."

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Guest River

Bill: is this footage (that I'm claiming is Heironimus and Merrit on horseback) from the "1st reel" of Pattersons footage? Is it before the walk sequence on the films you have examined?

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Bill

River:

This footage (which you and Drew describe as being Bob H. and Jerry Merrit), is not "first reel" PGf footage. The ANE company simply edited it to go right before a short piece of real Roger and packhorse PGF first reel footage, in their program.

So it is with some real PGF stuff in their edit only, as far as i can determine.

Bill

Edited by Bill

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Guest

Right you are Bill. Email Green and ask him what was on the "1st reel". He saw it and claims the PGF was the last footage on the reel. The rest was scenery footage, supposedly for Roger's documentary. I suspect Roger provided several reels to whomever, who edited the ANE segment together. Then I think this segment was spread around.

Edited by Gigantofootecus

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Crowlogic

Man who wrote the text to that website that linked to the photos?

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Bill

Pranassus:

"I would highly recommend this book to you"

I have ordered it.

:)

Bill

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