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The Munns Report

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SweatyYeti

Fantastic news, Bill! :) Congrats, on acquiring it!

I am very much looking forward to seeing the level of detail, in that version. (Why, I bet we'll be able to see Patty's mouth/lips moving... :popcorn: )

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Guest MikeG

But Bill, I thought you were working from a first generation copy of the original camera footage? Are you saying that this new bit of film is potentially a higher quality than that? If so, is that simply a product of the copying method?

Mike

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Guest Kerchak

Cool news Bill.

I also will be looking forward to what you can do with the casting/trackway footage in this new copy. Sounds interesting.

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Bill

Mike G:

Mrs. Patterson's copy is true full frame, and any true full frame copy (which is made by contact printing) has grain of equal size as the source version of the film, but grain is randomly arranged, so mis-alignments of grain patterns from source to copy cause detail loss. The greatest detail loss is on a 1:1 copy (source and copy have the same image size and area). That copy is great for full frame studies and the photogrammetry analysis of the site, but poor for study of Patty.

What Green did, and the ANE company also did, were optical printed zoom in copies from the camera original, and when you do that, like a 2x zoom in, the grain structure on the copy side is twice as fine as the source side (relative to the image of Patty), and is capable of holding more detail of the original. ANE also did a 4x zoom in of the look back sequence, and that means the copy's grain structure was 4 times finer than the source, when compared to the image of Patty, and so a 4x zoom copy literally is near perfect in replicating the detail of the original image of Patty. Then, even if that copy is replicated, as needed for program editing, the much higher grain to image ratio means copies don't degrade in quality as fast as a 1:1 contact print does.

So the best copies for study of Patty are ones that were optically printed from the camera original with zoom in on Patty for the copy. Mrs. Patterson's copy wasn't done this way so it's not ideal for the study of Patty. Green's copy master did have some zoom in segments, and the Noll scans were from that, and that's why they were considered the best for so long. The ANE company (which made this film I am getting) also worked from the camera original and did both 2x and 4x zoom in prints, so they are excellent for study. Plus it appears they did their printing through a liquid gate process, because the ANE prints were made years after the Green and Patterson copies, yet they have less scratching, which is what the liquid gate process does, scratch removal.

The ANE print also includes some segments were they printed the same frame 3 or 4 times, to produce a slow motion effect, and in doing so, when I scan the same frame 4 times, I can blend the four scans and further null out the grain of each frame, which also clears up the image, so that's another option for grain reduction and detail enhancement.

It's a bit confusing and technical, but I hope I explained it so it makes sense.

Bill

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xspider1

Great work finding the ANE film, Bill and in explaining how that copy might be the best yet for Patty studies. I actually understood a lot of what you said there. : B This should be very interesting!

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Guest MikeG

Thanks Bill. That's very clear.

Mike

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Bill

xspider1:

When I got started 4 years ago, I had forgotten a lot of the subtle issues of film and grain and copy quality that I had learned way back in my film school days and early career work with documentaries. So I, like many others, assumed a contact print full frame first generation print was the ultimate copy to study.

Where I diverged from other researchers is that once I was able to acquire multiple scanned versions of the film, and actually compared specific frames over several versions of that frame, I realized the zoom in optical print method was superior for holding detail on images of Patty. That's become part of my analysis work, sorting out what truly are the best copies or versions for study, so we can work with the best evidence.

So it will be fascinating to see this copy as compared to Copy 8, which was derived from this version, which is the third copy group family of the PGf. (Group 1 was Roger's full frame copies, Group 2 was the Green/Dahinden optical printed set of copies, and the ANE work is group 3).

Bill

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Guest Biggie

Congratulations Bill and much success with the improved copy.

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Bill

Thanks.

It was a weird sort of karma thing, to find it. It had been listed on Ebay since Feb 26, with zero interest apparently, and yesterday morning, I saw something about a seller of vintage movies on 16mm, and decided to kill some time browsing the pages of listings for vintage 16mm films. I was about 10 pages into the listings, when I saw this film, and only 8 hours before the bidding closed. Once i placed my bid, I spent the last few hours of the bidding time chewing my fingernails down to the knuckles waiting to see if another collector/researcher might be lurking to post a last minute bid over mine. But apparently the film, the way it was listed on Ebay, was so obscure in it's listing that no one else with interest could find it.

I'd often searched "Bigfoot" or "Patterson Film" on Ebay and nothing came up that was useful. This time, it was sheer chance, which makes it all the more intriguing.

Once I get the film, and do some conversion on my scanning set-up to handle a 1200' reel (right now, the set-up only holds up to a 400' reel), then I'll do an inventory scan just to get an overview of the full content, and from that, map the plan for the true frame scans. Should keep me busy for a couple of weeks.

There's a curious issue I'll be exploring, in that this film (from the scans the seller make), it appears they generally used full frame footage overall (except for the PGF zoom in stuff) but their DVD version (presumably done back in the 70's on video tape (telecine conversion) and then a DVD upgrade from that) is cropped quite a bit for the entire program content, and Copy 8 seems cropped the same way, even though it was made film to film, and wasn't a film back-conversion from the video conversion (film to video back to film). So why Copy 8 is cropped that way is a curious thing I want to explore, plus seeing if Copy 8's edit is identical to this one, or a slightly different edit (since they deleted the Janos Prohaska interview from Copy 8, and PGF stull bookends the interview in the ful program).

Of all the footage, the most likely valuable material would be Roger casting a track, true full frame (since the Copy 8 version is cropped), and the 4x PGF lookback, but all the PGF material will be interesting to see.

So all in all, it'll be a valuable expansion of the PGF image database for all future research.

Bill

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Guest Biggie

Wow not even one other bid from someone. That was definitely meant to be Bill. All that fingernail biting was worth it after all. hehe

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Wheellug

I'm excited for you Bill on your find!

Now I do expect to see an updated report and the video available on your web site tomorrow morning! (I wish!)

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PBeaton

Bill,

Woo ! Hoo ! Good stuff ! Possibly a better look at her...can't wait, fingers crossed for a little more detail. Great news, congrats !

:drinks:

Pat...

ps: Pure chance...or good Karma Bill ? Me thinks the latter... :goodjob:

Edited by PBeaton

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Bill

If wishes were horses, . . . . .

:)

Yeah, I would love to speed it up, and wish I had it in hand today. The seller offered free shipping, so it's likely going out a slow economy method.

There's other stuff in the works too, that seems to be coming together unexpectedly, so I'm starting to feel 2012 is a really good year for the PGF.

:)

Bill

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Guest CT Seeker

Bill, I am new to the research you are working on and it sounds fascinating. Excellent!

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Bill

CT Seeker:

Don't believe we've ever chated before. Welcome to the forum and the never dull quest for a solution to the Patterson Gimlin Film.

As mysteries go, this one's a beaut.

Bill

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