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Attn: Closet Witnesses

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Thanks LLP for the topic and hope all witnesses feel comfortable enough to share with us.

Your welcome, Sunflower. And I share your warmth toward those just looking for someone to listen.

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This whole thread has been enlightening and inspiring. I think everyone spoke their mind with great clarity. Myself having to define my thoughts and considering everyone else's ideas and positions concerning BF witnesses was sobering. As a relative newbie to this forum I will say as I read everyones thoughts I didn't come away with the impression any hard feelings had been "carried forward". I did come away with a new understanding of how deep the underlying emotions run secondary to any sort of BF incident.

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Another pervasive sense that I see cropping in this thread is the idea that a witness can just post any claim.

Let me be very clear about the pervasive attitude of this forum. Outlandish claims by "witnesses" will be questioned on this forum. And rightly so. This forum is not going to become a "landing zone" for every paranormal, supernatural bigfoot advocate in the world.

It doesn't matter if you think these creatures or more human or more animal, posting a story that gives them some special ability that is against the laws of physics or contrary of what we know of this physical world won't be acceptable to the general membership of this forum. That isn't my decision, it is just the nature of this forum.

People want to come to this forum to discuss bigfoot and find out what is real about these creatures, to the best of our ability to discern. They don't want to come here and read about fairy tales and unicorns.

It is the "fairy tale", "science fiction" claims that will run off more members of this forum than the critical questioning of witnesses. People come here for serious bigfoot discussions, for the most part. They won't participate if we have stories of "Bigfoot had my baby" or "I lived with a bigfoot family for 20 years". ;)

Ok, I'd like to chime in on this. And I even have a humorous emoticon for comic relief.

1106.gif

First off, I got a chuckle (not from the quote above) when it was mentioned that there were threads started where witnesses could post accounts without being questioned. Why did I chuckle? Because I saw this thread the other night- noticed there was a note right on there that said it was for witnesses, and that no one should be replying to ask questions or make accusations etc- that the questions should be posted in a seperate thread, if and only if the witness wanted to address the questions. And then, right away, I noticed that immediately some members ignored the "rule" and started asking questions about the encounter noted. I found this funny.. but I also understood because many of us who've had even limited encounter or even none, are curious and want to be involved. We're all looking for answers here, and although I realize that some witness's may be traumatized from their experience- I would say the vast majority of the members here are going to be supportive... unless its some far out story that defies (as you put it) the laws of nature/physics, or also seems out of place as far as behaviors and attributes that seem common to encounters/sightings.

Regarding the quote above, I personally agree 100% with what your saying above, but here's the problem.

With such a diverse group of people coming on to the boards here, your going to get some very different reactions to certain stories.

I believe that each of us has a threshold as far as what/how much we're willing to believe.

I've read every report imaginable over the last several years- from your average BF running across the road, to people bumping into them (physically) in the woods, being chased, being assaulted, having sonic waves overcome them, and even BF and/or themselves passing through portals into other dimensions.... Even some of the more colorful ones, I normally will give the benefit of the doubt, because this is a human being reporting something that happened to them, or something they truly believe happened to them. But, it's especially hard to get a feel for someone's truthfulness in words typed on a screen. It's easier if you can see them face to face. We all know that we've had someone stand in front of us and lie to us, and you picked up on something and you knew you were being lied to.

When it comes to BF sightings/encounters, for me personally, its the cohabitation stories that flip the switch in my head and start the old skepticism turbine whirring away. To me a cohabitation story is akin to someone telling me they saw BF running through the woods, flapping his/her arms, and took off in flight and proceded to fly over the trees like a bird.

As far as how members on here (most not all) reacted when I posed some (IMO) valid and thought provoking questions in the "Enoch" thread, I was warned that my questions were an attack on this persons credibility, and that I should basically cease and desist.

I made it clear that because of things that happened in my youth, and in years to follow, that I had personal reasons to believe in the existence of BF/Sasquatch, but that when it came to certain types of reports that I was indeed a skeptic. Why ? Because they seem to go against everything I've read in books, reports, and documentaries on these creatures. Curious ? (check), sitting in your campsite with you making s'mores ? (umm i dont think so.. sorry.) Repeated sightings ? (sure, check)... The "clan" lets you get close (especially to youngsters) and hang out with them ? (errr again, sorry not buyin it).

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a skeptic. I mentioned this yesterday in the "Enoch" thread.

There's extremes in both camps- some skeptics will not accept any story, any evidence, and will flat out deny any chance your story/experience was real. On the other hand there seem to be people (yes even on here) who if I told them I saw a flying BF in the woods, they'd ask me what color were the feathers under his arms...?

We need to find a healthy balance between the extremes, and regardless of whether its a "rule" or not- I think skepticism, even extreme skepticism can be communicated in a polite fashion.

Oh, and people on here need to stop comparing someone telling a BF story/encounter/sighting, with someone accused of a crime - who is "innocent until proven guilty". The two things are so different- its not even apples and oranges, its apples and bowling balls.

No one with a sighting report, or encounter has to prove anything to anyone.

In my opnion, as I mentioned- with "certain" instances, when someone is making super extraordinary claims... well that's the same answer. You dont have to prove anything, but dont be surprised if your met with at least a certain amount of skepticism.

Oh, and as a footnote- the experience/encounter I had as a boy.. left me with several years of deep seated fear of going anywhere in the woods. Open fields, fine... into the woods = high level of anxiety, bordering on shivering and near panic attack.

I've posted some class B and C stuff in the NY sightings thread, but I dont like talking about, (and probably wont share just yet) my one A encounter..... it was not a "warm and fuzzy" experience.

Ok.. nuff for now.

Art

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Well Art, you have made some valid points. As have a lot of others that have posted in this thread.

There has always been a conundrum when it comes to dealing with witnesses. Members of this forum want the witness to come and tell us what they saw and heard. On the other hand, the members of this forum are pretty smart and will not brook anyone coming here and trying to test that intelligence.

If the witness would just post what they saw, without trying to elaborate more to the story than what actually happened, then even some of the weird stuff wouldn't necessarily be out of hand. I know that people want an explanation for the things that they see, but sometimes a person can over analyze what actually happened. Then they can get pretty flustered when members of this forum start offering logical reasons for the event. That is where the critical thinking comes in.

Sometimes we get a person that didn't see an actual bigfoot, but some weird things happened to them while they were in the woods, and they think it was bigfoot related. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. But they have so convinced themselves that it was bigfoot, that they throw critical analysis completely out the window. So when members offer alternate explanations of what could have happened to them, they get mad and leave the forum.

Now, who's fault is that? And it's even more frustrating because we have many people in this world that venture into the woods that have absolutely no woods experience to speak of. No hunting skills, no camping skills, no tracking skills, etc. And yet those are the ones that have the bigfoot experience. There are a lot of animals making a lot of noise in the woods. Not all of them are bigfoot.

Then there is the problem of the "extraordinary" bigfoot. That is the bigfoot that defies the laws of physics. We can only determine things that surround us, in this world, by what we already know about physical science. Things that go against what we know are true just won't fly. It totally goes against our reason. So when a witness comes to the forum with a story of the paranormal or supernatural bigfoot, they will meet with certain criticism.

I can't flap my arms and fly, so don't tell me that bigfoot can, for instance.

There are some weird things in this world, but man usually wants to offer a reasonable explanation for them.

You brought up the "habituation scenario". That one is always a blood pressure raiser. :lol: And it doesn't help the witness to this situation when they spend so much time with bigfoot and they can't even provide photo or DNA evidence of their story. Habituators are their own worst enemy. ;)

Personally, I would just prefer to let the witness come to the forum, tell their story and answer any questions that the membership has. If the story is simple, then they will appreciate the questioning. If the story is outlandish, then they will get their dander up when questioned.

I have always thought that it was up to the membership to allow what stories they chose to believe. The membership is supposed to weed out the problems, not the Staff. The Staff's job was to make sure it didn't get out of hand.

Now, with this new forum and with it's kinder, gentler attitude approach, we are trying to establish "question free" zones for the witness. So far, the effort hasn't been too successful. That isn't the Staff's fault, nor the general forums fault. We can't make the witness come and post their story, even in a safe zone.

We understand the witness very well on this forum.

So, what are we to do?

Splash

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I would like to add a suggestion so that you will get more co-operation from the members. I was one of those that wanted a thread like this established. Unfortunately, the title of thread doesn't indicate that this is THAT THREAD. Please put a clarification in the title that will alert those that didn't get the memo that no questions should be asked in this thread. A redirect to the appropriate thread where questions can be asked should be placed in the opening post.

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Jodie, I think you posted in the wrong thread. This thread is certainly open for questions and statements.

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Jodie, I think you posted in the wrong thread. This thread is certainly open for questions and statements.

I think when Jodie said "this thread" she was referring to the one I mentioned- the one that people were responding to the witness's stories in...

I think it does mention in the first post about not responding- but I dont believe its mentioned in the header... which might help.

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Yes, please put something in the title that indicates that this is not a debate thread or something to that affect. Then if some kind of mention could be made regarding the other thread where Q&A can be addressed, that would be great. I read this entire thread, I do remember the directions in the opening post. I personally took it to mean that you weren't supposed to ask for evidence, didn't think it meant you couldn't discuss it. It just isn't clear IMO what you are wanting. Back when I was in the loop of things I thought we were thinking of doing a separate forum for this and wasn't aware a thread was created instead. I'm sure if I didn't get it, many, many others didn't either.

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I think when Jodie said "this thread" she was referring to the one I mentioned- the one that people were responding to the witness's stories in...

I think it does mention in the first post about not responding- but I dont believe its mentioned in the header... which might help.

No I was speaking of the witness thread and the one where the Q&A on the witness reports can be asked. But when I went back to review I am in the wrong thread. But I still think my suggestion for those two threads would work better. You can use this post as an example of the confusion it is causing. :lol:

Edited by Jodie

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I added to the title for the BFF Members Sighting Reports thread. I am afraid that people will just have to read the OP for the other one.

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Sometimes we get a person that didn't see an actual bigfoot, but some weird things happened to them while they were in the woods, and they think it was bigfoot related. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. But they have so convinced themselves that it was bigfoot, that they throw critical analysis completely out the window. So when members offer alternate explanations of what could have happened to them, they get mad and leave the forum.

While I agree with this statement, on the flip side I think it's important to note that some get it into their head that it can't be a sasquatch and that the member is being disingenuous by saying that s/he thought it was. I've talked to several people with convincing non-visual encounters. While those people think they know what caused the sounds, no one (you, me, or them) saw it happen so we can't say for sure. I think it's important to note that some throw critical analysis out the window on the opposite side. Just because a claim is extraordinary doesn't make it impossible. I could just as easily fabricate a story that *sounds* good, that would be far more believable because it has more hallmarks of a classic sighting - but it would still be a lie. Without evidence, the only thing sighting claims rest on it people's words. As Art said, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt - whether they thought they saw a sasquatch out of the corner of their eye, for 30 seconds, for 5 minutes, or on a regular basis.

Without evidence, it's all the same to me.

At the end of the day, the Steering Committee, along with the FMT, was established to handle decisions like these. A special area or thread and the rules surrounding them is being discussed by the Steering Committee and how good/bad of an idea it is along with a whole host of other issues. I think the discussion in this thread has been pretty good so far and represents the fact that we all have different opinions as to how things should proceed and I'm sure the Steering Committee and the Forum Management Team will rely on the opinions and arguments presented here to come to a conclusion.

Lastly, flaming and insulting members isn't allowed here. Members are free to not believe a story but not to insult the member posting it. If you believe that something like this has happened or is happening to you or another, you've got to hit that "Report" button to get the situation resolved as soon as possible. Again questions don't equal insults, but I don't want to see people driven away from this place from being roasted either. The membership here is very diverse and represents all manner of opinions, theories, and experiences that make up their posts. It's that diversity that makes this place a good one to discuss this topic. It's not a research organization, a witness-support group, or a skeptical inquiry. It's all of those things, and more. Because all of you are, and more.

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Sometimes we get a person that didn't see an actual bigfoot, but some weird things happened to them while they were in the woods, and they think it was bigfoot related. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. But they have so convinced themselves that it was bigfoot, that they throw critical analysis completely out the window. So when members offer alternate explanations of what could have happened to them, they get mad and leave the forum.

I should have been more clear with this part of the post. My point was that even when members offer an alternate explanation to a members "bigfoot" incident, instead of staying the course, if they are adamant that no other explanation makes sense except bigfoot, they get mad and leave the forum. Just because a member disagrees with a witnesses conclusions, doesn't mean that the witness has to get mad and leave.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Splash

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So today while I was getting my nails done, it just sort of gently dawned on me that I often think about that fateful day in the wilderness when I was a kid while I'm daydreaming or don't have anything particular on my mind. Usually I'm not aware that I've slipped into the past until the dull thudding of my quickening heart starts becoming impossible to ignore. I start to tingle, my face heats up, I shake a little inside and my breathing becomes shallower as the movie playing before my inner eyes progresses to just before I turn to look to see where the breathing sound behind me is coming from. I tend to pause the playback at that point, if I've become conscious of the content of my daydreaming, and try to play it back real slow so I can maybe see that what I'm about to encounter is something other than the boogie man I've remembered all these years. Maybe it was just a tree stump afterall. That would be just such a total relief. Sometimes, knowing what is about to happen, I snap out of it and rush back into the present where I'm safe. But she was a little girl who went through something terrifying and earth-shattering, and she went through it alone... so I usually try to force myself to watch the inner video again, hoping to eventually just become reconciled with having seen something that I intellectually KNOW doesn't exist, can't exist, is a fairy tale, a myth. But there it is. And what I think I should know has to give way to what is right there, clear as day, solid, three dimensional, made of flesh and blood.

I'm here, on this thread and at the BFF in general, because something awful happened to me over 30 years ago, and I never came here to satisfy the curiosity of those who are looking for bigfoot. I'm interested in reaching out to other under-served BF witness who arrive here daily looking for other witnesses so they can talk about what they've gone through after encountering BF. BF searchers can have their thorough examinations of incoming reports in search of hoaxes -- that's another valid function of these forums -- but there needs to ALSO be a place available for witnesses to have long term contact with others who offer the support of a caring community. Anyone who feels that this is something they want too should make the effort to post here. Others who feel it's a bad idea have the whole rest of the BFF to go start threads on and do their thing.

I hope this subject finally receives the care and positive exposure it has been denied for so long. Thank you for respecting and contributing to the original purpose of this thread.

Lea/LPP

Edited by LePetitPied

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