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Problems That Need Addressing.....


Guest BF believer

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Guest BF believer

Hi guys. I do not post here that often but spend an endless amount of times reading the differing views. I shall start by saying that I am a firm believer in both Sasquatch and the P/G film. But problems that sceptics of the film have come up with have been bugging me and they are problems that need addressing. Let me explain.....

#1 - the problem with the continuity of the film, for example, the concerns with the alleged growth of Roger's beard. There is an issue with the fact that Roger seemed to have grown a beard in 90 minutes. Another continuity problem involves some plaster on Roger's leg, which sceptics say mysteriously vanishes in a later shot.

So what explanations, if any, have we as believers put forward for these supposed mistakes? What evidence is there that these problems exist?

Another problem that I feel needs addressing is the polygraph that Bob H allegedly passed. Is there any truth to what I have heard about there being dubious circumstances behind the test, for example, that Bob H would only agree to a lie detector if they could choose who would carry it out. If this is the case, and Bob H was calling the shots so to speak on who conducted the test, then can it really be taken at face value??

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Guest Bipedal Ape

They are very relevant though.

Going only by the film itself is not ideal when we are dealing with a blurry distant subject, that has been shown could be matched by a suit.

The pgf should be viewed as a whole, the backstory and the film itself, including those continuity errors.

There are big problems with the back story and the film itself, and thats why the debate continues 40 years later.

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As for being shown it could be matched by a suit, that is a matter of opinion as well, I personally have not seen any overly convincing suit evidence. But that is my opinion,and others may feel differently, and I will resist speaking for them.

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I cannot even find a definitive answer, or proof that anyone can even get the proportions right, let alone match them, again, its all opinion, there is not enough info to make the claim its fact.

As for the polygraph, I don't even pay attention to that, myself,not that my opinion means much, but there are so many things that make them unreliable, I think its a waste of time even taking it into consideration, especially that long ago, on this type of subject.

Edited by JohnC
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kitakaze

Notice that none of these issues are with the subject of the film itself. These are called straw man arguments.

With the beard issue, I disagree, gigantor. This is the PGF...

Plaster pour scene = PPS

second-film-roger-pouring-cast.gif

Trackway scene = TWS

Casts2ndreel.gif

Cast display scene = CDS

patterson-moves-frames-added.gif

Also, if you ignore addressing the source of a purported piece Bigfoot footage, you are ignoring the history of exposed hoaxes in Bigfootery. I feel this is extremely unwise.

More so than the polygraph stuff, I would strongly want to have a coherent noncontradictory answer from Gimlin why he had Heiroonimus' horse at Bluff Creek and why he trusted Heiroimus so much if Heironimus was telling people Gimlin was a hoaxer.

Gimlin+Bluff+Creek.jpg

"I know Bob. He's been a friend of mine for a long time, but as far as I'm concerned, he was not there that I know of, and I don't think he was there at all. And he probably tryin' to make a buck. These guys are coming out of the wall saying the've been in a suit down in Norrthern California."

"I'd say the story Bob has come up with is pretty far-fetched as far as I'm concerned. You know, I've confronted Bob on that. I've said, 'Hey, what's going on?' But he won't talk about it. We're still friends. He just lives a little ways from me. I've worked with him and I've done things with Bob. I've rode horses with him. But this thing he's telling all the people around that he was in a suit in Northern California, it kind of just don't make sense to me."

"I used to trust Bob a lot, but then lately him and the whole family kind of prevaricates. They think things. You know, I don't make statements against my friends or neighbours, but this thing is kind of out of proportion as far as I'm concerned."

Bob Gimlin to Greg Long - September 18, 2001. MoB, p. 422

This is not proof of anything, but why does a friend of Roger Patterson's indicate the Gimlin was not honest?

Greg Long: Does Bob Gimlin strike you as a truthful and honest man?

Patterson friend and Bigfoot: America's Abominable Snowman cast member John Ballard: I'd rather not say. He's a very likable guy, he's a very likable guy. Real smooth-talking fellow. He has a nice voice.

GL: So you won't answer the question if he's truthful or honest?

JB: No, I won't answer that question.

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/interviews/gimlin-lied.htm

John Ballard - second from the left beside his friend Roger Patterson. Gimlin's in the wig over beside his former trusted friend Bob Heironimus.

Lund-Horsemen+in+Yakima.JPG

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SweatyYeti

kitakaze wrote:

With the beard issue, I disagree, gigantor. This is the PGF...

Plaster pour scene = PPS

The Plaster Pour footage is not necessarily a part of the 'PGF', itself. It may be a 'demo pour'.

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roguefooter

1. The beard growth- what we're looking at could possibly be overexposure. Notice how the pour footage is bright sunlight compared to the cast display footage which is taken in a dark shaded area. The pour footage is so washed out that you can't even distinguish between the plaster bucket and Roger's hands- that much detail has been lost.

Compare these two images taken of scruffy Robert Pattinson at the same event, the first picture taken with a bright flash -

r90g1c.jpg

The difference we see is due to the lighting- he didn't just grow a beard at the event.

The plaster on the jeans- the last time i messed with plaster I remember it crumbling and falling off of clothing pretty easily, so this is really a non-issue.

The polygraph- no polygraph can be taken at face value. For one it's a pseudoscience, and it can also be passed if you know how it's done. Apparently Roger passed a polygraph too, so which exam was right? Just goes to show that polygraphs are not dependable.

Edited by roguefooter
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kitakaze

kitakaze wrote:

The Plaster Pour footage is not necessarily a part of the 'PGF', itself. It may be a 'demo pour'.

1) The plaster our is one of the first scenes on reel 2, which was chronologically supposed to be after Patty was filmed.

2) Roger himself said in a radio interview with Jack Webster in Vancouver after the two showings of the film on October 26th, 1967 that he had not taken any film at Bluff Creek before Patty Day...

Now Roger, what took you to that place, and precisely where was it, and why did you go there?

Roger: Well first of all, the reason that we were in this place was that I’d been filming a documentary on this thing for the past eight months or so and I’d been going to areas interviewing people that have seen these creatures, other than myself now, and we went to this particular area because a month before this they had found three different sets of tracks up in that area.

W: Now come back to yourself, first of all you showed some routine film of your packhorses, didn’t you?

R: Right.

W: Now what were you doing filming at that particular time on the pack horse trip?

R: Well, we hadn’t taken any and I thought right of that particular area there, before, and it was a beautiful area right in there, there was some of the ….

W: You were just taking odd shots, then?

R: We were just taking some shots of the scenery and of myself and Bob and ….

W: Alright, just jump to what you first saw that made you excited.

R: Well we rounded a bend in the road ….

3) Gimlin not only said he shot the plaster pour after Patty was encountered, he has never in any account said anything about Roger having him shoot a plaster pour scene only a few days before Patty.

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SweatyYeti

1) The plaster our is one of the first scenes on reel 2, which was chronologically supposed to be after Patty was filmed.

.

There are (at least) 3 details indicating that this footprint is not part of Patty's trackway...

RogerCastPour-FullViewOverlay1.jpg

As far as it being at the start of 'Reel 2'....if that is the case regarding the "2nd Reel" as it exists today....it may have been spliced onto the reel of film.

Also....I highly doubt that you could have the '2nd reel'...fully intact....when it was reported, years ago, that a section of the 2nd Reel film was 'torn off', and given to someone....(I forget who it was given to.)

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kitakaze
Compare these two images taken of scruffy Robert Pattinson at the same event, the first picture taken with a bright flash -

r90g1c.jpg

The difference we see is due to the lighting- he didn't just grow a beard at the event.

The flash changed his suit and cut his bangs, did it?

Robert Pattinson at the November 14th, 2011 Twilight: Breaking Dawn Part 1 premiere in LA ...

Twilight%20BD%20Pt%201%20world%20premiere%20Kristen%20Stewart%20Robert%20Pattinson.jpg

http://www.catwalkqueen.tv/2011/11/all_the_fashion.html

Roger Pattinson signing autographs at the German premiere of Twighlight: Breaking Dawn Part 1 at the Sony Center in Berlin November 18th, 2011 with four days beard growth after the LA premiere...

Robert-Pattinson-at-the-German-premiere-images.jpg

http://hollywooddame.com/2011/12/05/robert-pattinson-cheating-with-sarah-roemer-video/robert-pattinson-gibt-autogramme-bei-berlin-premiere/

Sweet mother, I hate Twilight.

Rogue, you do know that someone would bust google-fu on your comparison, right?

There are (at least) 3 details indicating that this footprint is not part of Patty's trackway...

RogerCastPour-FullViewOverlay1.jpg

1) What distance do you estimate between the footprint and the debris?

2) Do you think Patterson is not at the same location where Patty was filmed?...

Dahinden+Film+Site+Photo.jpg

3) What technique do you think Patterson used to fake that track he would show in his "documentary"? His hands only?

4) Why does Gimlin say he shot the plaster pour right after Patty yet says nothing about filming a fake track sequence for the film?

5) Do you have a report of the original second reel having a section torn off before Patterson made copies in Seattle only five days after Patty Day?

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Guest Transformer

I am not an investigator and I sure could see the difference between the two pictures immediately! The suit and tie and the hair are all different. Roguefooter, I will now know whose opinion I will no longer trust when it comes to these types of things whether or not it was an attempt to deceive or just an incredibly bad demonstration of observational abilities. :negative:

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Guest Twilight Fan

1. The beard growth- what we're looking at could possibly be overexposure. Notice how the pour footage is bright sunlight compared to the cast display footage which is taken in a dark shaded area. The pour footage is so washed out that you can't even distinguish between the plaster bucket and Roger's hands- that much detail has been lost.

Compare these two images taken of scruffy Robert Pattinson at the same event, the first picture taken with a bright flash -

r90g1c.jpg

The difference we see is due to the lighting- he didn't just grow a beard at the event.

The plaster on the jeans- the last time i messed with plaster I remember it crumbling and falling off of clothing pretty easily, so this is really a non-issue.

The polygraph- no polygraph can be taken at face value. For one it's a pseudoscience, and it can also be passed if you know how it's done. Apparently Roger passed a polygraph too, so which exam was right? Just goes to show that polygraphs are not dependable.

This post made Twilight Fan laugh! :lol:

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