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Ray Wallace Hoaxing And The Pgf


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Guest Bigfoothunter
The small brown cast in that photo of four looks very similar to this Wallace stomper...

 

Second from the right looks very similar to the middle stomper pair here... 

 

Throwing grenades on Christmas ..... really now? Should this not be the one day that the propaganda nonsense should get a rest. Tomorrow is when you can be asked to do better than sharing observations about alignments from various skewed photos.

 

Bigfoothunter

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BFF Donor

It seems agreed Wallace faked some tracks.  

The Q is, did he fake the tracks at Bluff Creek in the PGF encounter of 1967? 

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Moving an OT discussion to the proper thread...

 

 

Bigfoothunter, on 01 Mar 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:snapback.png

All these months and that was the best you could come up with.     :)      Actually, I meticulously made certain that the two prints were being seen at the same angle to each other from heel to toe. If you don't believe it, then rotate the toe angles to both be pointing in the same direction and see how much you had to rotate one of the feet to get them to match.

 

 

That would be the directional orientation. The angle is different and regardless of the directional orientation, taking a photo of something with a curve to it from above will appear more curved than when photographed at a diagonal angle far from being directly overhead.

 

No, really...

 

AngleCoin-01-L.jpg

AngleCoin-02-L.jpg

 

The toe line in these two images is not evidence of a dynamic moving foot.

 

1fecfc6f-43d4-4ff6-b0db-316d17f9cde3_zps

 

 

Was this posted and I missed it?

 

I thought for a moment that Kitakaze was maybe setting up a easy field test to demonstrate how much of an angle change would be needed to have a certain effect on the vertical spacing in section A of my illustration, but I see he was just playing with Youtube edits. So tomorrow I will shoot some examples using a single casting against itself along with some other examples and share it with everyone.

 

Bigfoothunter

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Guest Bigfoothunter

^^

 

The coins not being aligned on the vertical plane was quite obvious and I am surprised that Kitakaze didn't notice this, but then again maybe he did. And while the camera being on a lower plane to take one of the coin photos effects the star lines seen on both sides of the vertical plane - it does not effect the top star point that runs north to south just as it would not effect the angle of the toes in the prints. To change the toe lines to the degree at which they are seen in my post - the camera would have to move far askew of the track and then the track angle would also change. This is not the case with the two track photos I had chosen as I made sure to pick two views with the same centered (north to south) vertical plane.

PERSPECTIVE_zps4f4850b9.jpg

 

To summarize: In the BCM track - the camera was centered over the print with the same north to south alignment as the photo of the print that John Green was squatted near the track. And while both track images were on the same north to south (vertical plane), the toe angle differences are quite noticeable. These types of observations were noted by Green, Dahinden, and the pilot while inspecting the trackway as I had spoken to all three at various times.

 

To answer the question that Kitakaze asked about a track test that I said I would do - I found that to do it correctly that I would need to make impressions in the ground. The reason for this was that I wanted to see how far from being over the track I would have to move to achieve the differences shown in my side by side illustration as the casting on its back mounds upwards which obscures the definition of the print quicker than the ground impression. The test will be done when I make more replicas as I do not wish to place my Patterson cast with the Bluff Creek sand on it in a damp substrate for fear of damaging it. The test will be fair and repeatable if anyone cares to test it for themselves.

Edited by Bigfoothunter
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Ray Wallace is a two-bit sideshow act.  He had a lot of fun but simply isn't relevant to the evidence.

Edited by DWA
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Guest Bigfoothunter

^^

 

Wallace was a prankster according to Green. However, he had moved his operation back to Washington well before 1967. I personally wouldn't care if his carving was used on the BCM trackway, but evidence like I just demonstrated points away from Wallace being involved. No one was pulled behind a truck, nor hanging off the side of one to achieve the strides - those there saw toe movement changes between tracks and the photos I used support this. When the feet went into the lose substrate .... the toes appear to have griped the ground. Even some prints demonstrated the heel striking the ground and rolling onto the ball without the mid-tarsal area touching the soil ... indicating foot flexion. Some prints were said to absorb stones into the pad of the foot which pressed the ground around them which a wood carving cannot do. Like I said, I wouldn't care one way or the other, but the evidence pointing to a real working foot is something I cannot ignore.

Edited by Bigfoothunter
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^^

 

The coins not being aligned on the vertical plane was quite obvious and I am surprised that Kitakaze didn't notice this, but then again maybe he did. And while the camera being on a lower plane to take one of the coin photos effects the star lines seen on both sides of the vertical plane - it does not effect the top star point that runs north to south just as it would not effect the angle of the toes in the prints. To change the toe lines to the degree at which they are seen in my post - the camera would have to move far askew of the track and then the track angle would also change. This is not the case with the two track photos I had chosen as I made sure to pick two views with the same centered (north to south) vertical plane.

PERSPECTIVE_zps4f4850b9.jpg

 

 

 

 

BH, we're having a misconnect on the area of the footprint beng referred to. From you first post with the above comparison sans the red lines, I though you were referring to a perceived variance in the horizontal arc line where the sole meets the toes. That's why I posted the coin as a three dimensional example showing that viewed from above the arc of the curve is more pronounced. 

 

Regarding the lines you two top red lines point to, you can do a simple test without even needing to leave your computer. Hold your right hand in front of your face, palm towards you, your fingers together and pointing straight up so that the three lines between your four fingers are straight up and down. Between that hand and your eyes, take the index finger of your left hand and line it up with the line between the index and middle finger of your right hand. Do not move your left hand. Tilt your right hand back away from your face. Your left hand index finger and the line on your right hand are still aligned. Now with the right hand that is tilted forward, angle (not point) it slightly to the left. Even in that slight angle to the left, your index finger of your left hand and the line on your right should now be quite out of alignment, the right hand index/middle finger line being around the 10 o'clock position, much like the photo you showed.

 

Thank you for the update on the experiment you were going to attempt.

 

Now an important question regarding Wallace hoaxing.

 

Where is an example in the history of Bigfootery of tracks made with the Wallace stompers we have seen being recorded and correctly identified prior to 2002 as being hoaxed by Wallace? As I have shown the stompers, particularly the double ball cracked heel pair have seen heavy use.

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Guest Bigfoothunter

BH, we're having a misconnect on the area of the footprint beng referred to. From you first post with the above comparison sans the red lines, I though you were referring to a perceived variance in the horizontal arc line where the sole meets the toes. That's why I posted the coin as a three dimensional example showing that viewed from above the arc of the curve is more pronounced. 

 

I was quite clear about the direction of the toes in my previous post and how they changed direction between those two prints. The arch was never mentioned in this particular matter that I recall.

 

Regarding the lines you two top red lines point to, you can do a simple test without even needing to leave your computer. Hold your right hand in front of your face, palm towards you, your fingers together and pointing straight up so that the three lines between your four fingers are straight up and down. Between that hand and your eyes, take the index finger of your left hand and line it up with the line between the index and middle finger of your right hand. Do not move your left hand. Tilt your right hand back away from your face. Your left hand index finger and the line on your right hand are still aligned. Now with the right hand that is tilted forward, angle (not point) it slightly to the left. Even in that slight angle to the left, your index finger of your left hand and the line on your right should now be quite out of alignment, the right hand index/middle finger line being around the 10 o'clock position, much like the photo you showed.

 

I applaud your taking the time to set up a test that has nothing to do with what I demonstrated. I discussed what you described when talking about the other points on the coin when seen at a low angle, which has absolutely nothing to do with the alignment of the toes that I mentioned in relation to the north to south alignment with the foot.

 

 

Where is an example in the history of Bigfootery of tracks made with the Wallace stompers we have seen being recorded and correctly identified prior to 2002 as being hoaxed by Wallace? As I have shown the stompers, particularly the double ball cracked heel pair have seen heavy use.

 

They won't be found on BCM. And to know heavy use has taken place, especially on dirt roads, would be to know the condition of the wood at the time they were first made. For all I know, the Wallace kids and grand-kids would play with them running up and down the sidewalk and concrete driveway for the next 40 years. But what I do know for certain is that the sponge-like gouge pattern on the base of those carvings is not seen in any of the prints in fine dry dust that I have seen from the BCM prints.

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Guest Bigfoothunter

To prove what I said through actual testing - the toe angles nor the lines in the rug changed direction like the print seen in the photo with John Green squatted near the track. The change in toe direction is shown again in this post.

 

tracktest2_zpscb3ef968.jpg

 

As the BCM witnesses said - there were toe movements noted by those who were there and saw them. The illustration I previously posted support those witnesses. (Note:  Dahinden went to BCM expecting to be able to show the tracks were fake, but was unable to do so) No rational explanation has been given to explain away these toe movements or the prints in the dust being void of the gouge pattern embedded in the wooden Wallace carvings.

 

PERSPECTIVE_zps4f4850b9copy_zpsb76f8f2b.

 

I cannot ignore the evidence before me and how it supports the changes between prints that the BCM witnesses independently described when seeing the tracks in person.

Edited by Bigfoothunter
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BH, the misconnect on what part of the footprint you were discussing happened here since there was no specifying of any particular part of the print..

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/7117-pattys-feetand-the-footprints/page-156#entry818640

 

Regardless, the red lines cleared that up.

 

PERSPECTIVE_zps4f4850b9.jpg

 

"I applaud your taking the time to set up a test that has nothing to do with what I demonstrated. I discussed what you described when talking about the other points on the coin when seen at a low angle, which has absolutely nothing to do with the alignment of the toes that I mentioned in relation to the north to south alignment with the foot."

 

You need to take into account a number of aspects here. What the implication in your graphic with the red lines suggests is that the toes on the foot have uniformly moved together to the left in relation to the sole of the foot. What needs to be accounted for on top of the three separate axis points for the footprint and angle of camera is that also the lines between the toes are not straight uniform walls but also have contours themselves that will affect the way the look when photographed at various angles. The contours between the toes being subject to particularly the Y and X axis as shown here... 

 

ill_rotation_trackball.gif

The following are crude carvings done by John Green for testing...

 

image009.jpg

 

The stompers Green carved have nowhere near the same kind of contouring on the sole and toes as Wallace's stompers do (not to mention the mistake of attaching the straps to the side rather than the top).

 

Your graphic with the red lines would give the impression that in the overhead shot, at least three of the lines between toes run nicely straight vertically down the foot. This is not at all the case and your graphic crops out most of the overhead footprint. The three toe lines in relation to the sole are actually not straight up and down in relation to the foot...

 

Bigwallace29.jpg

 

The affect of those contours in the stomper and the camera angle is clearly show here in these two sequential tracks recorded by Steve Matthes when he first uncovered hoaxing at Bluff Creek in 1960 while working for Tom Slick...

 

Bigwallace30-1.jpg

 

Seen overhead, the toe lines seem much closer in angle to the orientation of the sole, but the more the camera angle changes, the more pronounced that variation between toe lines and sole appears to be...

 

Bigwallace31-2.jpg

 

 

 

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