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Patty's Shoulder Width


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Has anyone, other than Dr. Krantz, tried to calculate Patty's shoulder width? I believe Grover concluded that their width is around 28 inches. If that's the case, could Patty really be a human in disguise? Krantz made the argument that a six-foot-tall man couldn't even fit into a costume with that measurement. Maybe Patty's shoulder width is the key to her being real or a guy "made up." Put aside her height, weight, muscle movement, hair pattern, and the way she walks. If there's anyone out there who's six feet tall, has a 19-inch chest, and 28-inch shoulders, please come forward. I have the feeling that we'll be waiting until "the twelfth of never."

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SweatyYeti

Has anyone, other than Dr. Krantz, tried to calculate Patty's shoulder width? I believe Grover concluded that their width is around 28 inches. If that's the case, could Patty really be a human in disguise? Krantz made the argument that a six-foot-tall man couldn't even fit into a costume with that measurement. Maybe Patty's shoulder width is the key to her being real or a guy "made up."

Put aside her height, weight, muscle movement, hair pattern, and the way she walks. If there's anyone out there who's six feet tall, has a 19-inch chest, and 28-inch shoulders, please come forward. I have the feeling that we'll be waiting until "the twelfth of never."

The key to Patty's identity is more than simply the 'shoulder width', Karajan. The key lies in how far Patty's elbows are able to reach...from her spine.

One factor in that is the width of her torso/shoulders....and the other factor is the length of her 'upper-arms'.

That is why I made this comparison.....comparing the area encompassed by a triangle...using points on the body....(the 'level of the eyes' and the elbows)....which are unaffected/unaltered by any potential suit/padding...

PattyRV-H1966-ArmsSpreadMC2.jpg

The area of the triangle is determined by both actual, skeletal 'shoulder/torso width' and by 'upper-arm length'.

There is no way to make that area on Bob equal to that of Patty's.....via 're-scaling'....or 'finagling' of the images. :)

Edited by SweatyYeti
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Guest Kerchak

^

And as you have pointed out before Sweaty, look at the arm gap.

Humans in big bulky costumes do not have such arm gaps.

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SweatyYeti

^

And as you have pointed out before Sweaty, look at the arm gap.

Humans in big bulky costumes do not have such arm gaps.

Thanks for mentioning the 'arm gap' detail, Kerchak... :)

I have posted quite a few images showing how the gap between the upper-arm and the 'side of the body' is easily, and quickly 'diminished' by any type of padding....on either the chest....or on the upper arm.

Here is a new comparison...between Patty and Bob......note how wide Patty's shoulders appear, beyond the outer-edge of her legs...and, despite that "padding" on "Bob's upper-body".....there is still a noticeable 'arm gap'....above the level of the elbow...

PattyBob-ArmGapComp5.jpg

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Guest RayG

If there's anyone out there who's six feet tall, has a 19-inch chest, and 28-inch shoulders, please come forward. I have the feeling that we'll be waiting until "the twelfth of never."

I'm 6 feet tall. Here's a picture of me without any shirt, shoulder pads, fur, or other type of covering on my upper body. I'm holding two chessboards edge-to-edge against my chest, whilst my daughter took a photo from behind. She was less than 10 feet from me, and the results would have looked the same whether I held the chessboards, or had them nailed to a wall and pressed my chest against them. The combined width of the chessboards is nearly 27" wide. (26 and 3/4 inches to be exact). My 'actual' shoulder width is only 21.5", but had I been wearing shoulder pads, I have no doubt it would extend my shoulders beyond the edge of the chessboards.

26point75inches.jpg

RayG

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And do you think your arm would look naturally attached, or do you think you would look like a football player with shoulders extending to far? Also I question your answer in regards to if you where wearing 1960's style shoulder pads, your shoulders would still not extend out to the chess boards, you probably would not even equal them. Your talking about seven inches of gain here, that's quite a bit.

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Guest RayG

Do YOU think my shoulders look naturally attached? Do YOU think they look nearly 6 inches smaller than the chessboards? At least I'm using objects that are measureable, whereas Dr. Krantz is guesstimating.

RayG

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Do I think your shoulders would look like Patty's in shoulder pads? No Do I think your bulk is in the same ball park as Patty's? No

Do I think your shoulders and arms would look as convincing as Patty's once in pads and costume? No

I do think you have a really good shot at replicating Belvins creature though.

Put the chess boards on your back, and take the pic again. Your shoulders will disappear, even with padding,Patty;s would still stick out.

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Guest Tontar

Hey Ray, kudos to you for doing the photo. You look like you could probably take the squatch in the Melissa thread pretty easily, especially since you don't have as much hair for it to grab onto when wrassling around! :-)

If you're game, have your daughter take another shot, from a bit further away (to avoid the fisheye and barrel distortions, it would make your arms and legs look shorter than they are), full length. I'll sketch Patty over it to see how squatchy you could be made to look. In other words, how well you could fit into a Patty suit.

Adding shoulder pads would define the shoulders, squaring them off more, as we see in Patty, and lift them up, shortening your neck. Fact is, it would make your arms look like they were hanging straight down even more than they do in this shot, where they look like they are slanted slightly outward. Pads would widen the top, making the arms appear more parallel, spreading them visually, at the top.

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Guest RayG

Upper arm length, I thought this was about shoulder width? Impossible, 'twelfth of never' existing humans, with nearly 28" appearing shoulder width.

Had I pulled the top of the chessboards down to the lower red line, I suspect they may have disappeared from sight altogether, and those chessboards are a quarter of an inch short of being 27" wide.

And that's without padding, clothing, fur, or anything other than me and my natural skin. I'm not claiming to BE Patty, nor that I match up with Patty in any other way. What I AM showing, is that a puny bare-skinned human can appear to be nearly 27" across the upper back and shoulders area.

Keep in mind we have no comparable picture of Patty in a similar pose, holding measurable chessboards from only 10' away. And Dr. Krantz didn't seem to settle on a definitive measurement for Patty's shoulders either. His estimates of 29.1", 28.5", 27" (page 106, Big Footprints), and 28.2" (pages 108 and 118, Big Footprints) have never been confirmed nor verified. They're simply guesstimates.

RayG

Edited by RayG
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Guest Tontar

Ray, keep in mind that if the argument is about one specific detail, the moment you resolve that detail as you have (yes, humans can have broad shoulders too), the argument will automatically and instantly switch to another standard. It's not about any specific argument or point, as each one can generally be resolved, but more so about evasion and never being pinned down. You resolve the shoulder width detail, and it switches to arm length. If you resolve that one, it will switch to where the butt is relative to the hands, and if you resolve that, it will switch to the bent knees, and so on. You will never get an acknowledgement that you resolved a debate point even when you do! Well, not from those arguing with you! I think you nailed the 28" impossibility pretty well.

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