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Bill

Identifying Things From Rp's Footage

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Bill

Roger's Documentary footage

This thread is an open invitation for any and all to help research some material Roger Patterson filmed before his encounter at Bluff Creek that resulted in the PGF as we know it.

I had the opportunity to scan frame samples from five full 100' rolls and one 50' roll of this documentary footage. I have described it at length in my report, PDF "3.2 The Physical Film, Part 3 of 3" found at;

http://www.themunnsreport.com/tmr_site_050.htm

with the download link at the bottom of that page.

The challenge of this footage is that it contains a wealth of data, but much of that data isn't actually evidentiary in relation to the PGF mystery we are so determined to resolve. In other words, a lot of the data is irrelevant, but some of it may be very relevant, and sorting out which is which is the challenge.

In the old forum, I posted some pictures and asked some questions, and that lead to some fine new information from contributors. But when the old forum went down the pictures uploaded to it apparently were lost.

So I'm re-submitting the pictures here with various example questions. let me acknowledge that some questions can probably only be answered with estimates, and not precise answers, given the variable nature of things.

Identifying Locations:

The Beach

This has been described as a place called Caruther's Cove, as reported by Kitakaze (but I vaguely recall he may have attributed the ID of this location to another researcher). I would welcome any remarks verifying if this is the correct location, and how it was determined.

beach.jpg

The Giant Tree

This appears to be a Giant Redwood, given the scale of the tree to the VW bus. These tress have a very limited range of location, so we may be able to get a proximate geographic location for where roger's VW Bus was when this footage was taken. So any info on this kind of tree and possible locations would help.

bigtree.jpg

The Totem Pole

This is not the total carving, but I'm just wondering if anybody can fix a location or Indian Tribe to connect to it. I don't know how unique such totem polls are so I don't know if this can be positively I.D.'d as to a specific one and location. This image is a composite of several frames as Roger pans down the object from top to lower part.

totempolecomposite.jpg

NOTE:

I tried previously to do all 11 photos in one post and it failed for reasons i couldn't determine, so I'm trying this in several posts with three or four photos each. This post is part One of several.

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Bill

Part Two of Photos for identification:

The Store Roger Enters

In the footage Roger himself apparently appears in, he walks from one side of the building to go up the steps and enter the store. I seem to recall somebody offering a comment of the store location, but can't locate the remark. Kit, was it you? Anyways, a positive ID on this would be nice, to see if we can place Roger in a specific geographic location.

Rogerenteringstore.jpg

Snow Scenes

This is one example of many Roger filmed on one reel with a K-100 camera. I don't expect anyone to say exactly where this location is, but I'd welcome any time of year estimates for snow this heavy, because we only have documentation of Roger having the K-100 after May 13, 1967, and this heavy a snow in May or later seems odd to me, suggesting he may have had a K-100 before the known rental. Just exploring an option here.

snowsceneK100.jpg

Identifying People

Man and Daughter with deer

Roger films this man pouring Kellogg's Corn Flakes on a lawn, and then a deer comes to nibble on the food. The man and his daughter are currently unidentified. The girl might be about 50 or so today, so if she's alive, she might remember Roger and the filming. Small chance, but a lead, none the less.

Manandgirl2.jpg

Fred Beck

Chris Murphy identified Fred. I assume this identification is correct, but welcome any comments for or against.

FredBeck.jpg

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Bill

Part Three of Photos for identification:

Roger

This is apparently Roger himself in his own footage (taken by some other person behind the camera). It is the first segment of roll #3 which then has Fred beck, and then the VW Bus "Bigfoot expedition 67" passing the giant redwood.

Rogerenteringstore.jpg

Person in Van photo, back to camera

This apparent person being filmed (back to camera) might be Roger, but I don't know how sure a positive ID we can get. the man has a posture consistent with him also filming the VW Bus, as somebody films him.

manfilmingvan2.jpg

Identifying Other Things

type of deer and time of year based on antler growth

This is the deer Roger films in roll #6, drawn by the corn flakes on the lawn. I wonder if the deer's species and antler growth may give us any time frame or seasonal reference. It would be a very rough estimate, but might help give us some clues when this footage was taken.

deer3shots.jpg

VW Van

car dash board

This is the first few feet of Roll #3, and has the leading edge washout and sprocket burns common when loading a daylight reel into a camera. It appears to show a car dashboard, maybe the interior of the VW bus. Any thoughts on the make and model of car, based on this dashboard? The dash is only in the upper half, and the store scene starts on the lower half. So the dashboard footage is just running off a few feet of film to clear the footage exposed during loading the camera. This action occasionally catches a picture the camera operator didn't actually think about.

cardashboard.jpg

So any info on any of the above photos will be appreciated, and please share the credit or source for identifying info, so we can properly credit same in future references.

Thanks,

Bill

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Bill

Correction:

The Store Roger Enters is best shown here:

littlestore.jpg

Bill

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Crowlogic

I wonder if the store could be Al Hodgsons(SP) store near where the PGF was filmed?

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Guest

I think we can eliminate Pearsons store in Weitchpec based on the second store pic (which I'd never seen before). I don't believe there's another building behind and to the left of Pearson's.

The cornflake dude appears to be wearing a zip front hickory shirt and Ben Davis dungarees which is a very standard loggers attire even today.

The Redwood tree pic is almost certainly from Mendocino county north but that's still a lot of territory. Email that pic to the logging museum in Eureka and I'd bet they can find someone that knows its location. I'd do it myself but I'm just not geeky enough to know how to email a picture.

Hope that helps. :P

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Bill

Norcallogger:

"Email that pic to the logging museum in Eureka and I'd bet they can find someone that knows its location."

Do you have a correct full name of the museum? If so, I'll be glad to send over the inquiry with photo.

On the store, I recall some claim it was in Weitchpec, but I don't have a source or confirmation.

Bill

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Just got off the phone with Bill Pearson at his store in Weitchpec and he said that it's flat going into the store and always has been. He should know since he's owned it since '55. :P

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Guest

info@timberheritage.org and there's a good chance that it's open today with the holiday and everything. :P

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Guest

Steve Streufert has a pic of the old Bluff Creek Resort store then and now and it looks nothing like the store where RP is going up the stairs. Two down and aaargh... now I have to use my memory!

Oh wait! I think the store in the pic burned down... yea, that's the ticket. It burned down. And then got bulldozed. And there's a Walmart there now. Yea, that's the ticket...

Whhhhell, that sure was easy! :P

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parnassus

The coastal scene is definitely the Carruther's Cove/Gold Bluffs Beach/Prairie Creek Redwoods State park/Ossagon Rocks site, just off Highway 101, 50 miles north of Eureka. Carruther's Cove is the trail you hike down to get to Gold Bluffs Beach. You can see the Ossagon Rocks near the center. It is a really cool place, because there are redwoods and also elk all over the place.

here is an image of more recent vintage, from almost the same perspective. It was taken by a journalist/biker from McKinleyville. There is a view point in that area. When I say almost, I mean what most people mean. I don't mean it is shot from exactly the same spot. Nor does the tide appear to be the same. But I think most reasonable people would recognize this as the same spot. Your mileage and temperature may vary. goldbluffsbeach.jpg

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Bill

norcallogger;

You are on a roll here.

Since you are a logging guy, any thoughts on this set of frames from reel #4:

forestsandlogging.jpg

Paranassus:

Thanks for the updated caruther's cove photo.

Bill

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Bill

Driftmark:

"edit to add , upon further investigation, looks to be a mule deer, still looks like its from late april or mid may"

So that estimate puts that roll within the possible range of the known K-100 rental (and the footage is definitely with a K-100), but this camera has a zoom lens on it, and the May 13 rental document has no record of a zoom lens rented with the K-100. So if it is the same camera, the Zoom lens came from another source or supplier.

Bill

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Guest

Well, just guessing but all the commercial trees appear to be Doug Fir. Even the culls on the ground look like DF based on the fact that there are still some chunks of bark on them. Redwood bark peels off in long strips and rarely leaves "chunks" of bark. Also, with the exception of the upper left pic none of the pics appear to have any stump sprouts which will happen quite quickly after a Redwood has been cut so again I'm thinking DF. Even the upper left pic doesn't look like sprouts, just some underbrush or trees starting to grow. And it's foggy which generally means coastal although that could be low clouds from a storm in a more inland setting. While there are plenty of DF stands in the CA fog belt there are no natural coastal Redwood stands inland from the fog belt. Coastal Redwoods need fog.

So I'm gonna take a stab in the dark here. This tree footage occured before the Caruthers Cove footage? That would suggest RP shot coastal Oregon DF on his way down to CA. Anybody that's still breathing would be awestruck be the size of the coastal Redwoods and probably wouldn't waste their time filming CA DF.

How'd I do? :P

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