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Are We Able To Recreate Pgf Today?

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kitakaze

BTW, here are a couple of stills from the interview I did during Phil and Amy Morris' visit to me last year...

Bigphil4.jpg

Bigphil5.jpg

I was thrilled to be able to interview both of them. Amy was extremely helpful with her memory and many of the technical aspects of their suit making in the 60's. I have over five hours of interview recorded at the Royal BC Museum (where Don Abbott came from) and at the Marriott Inner Harbour Hotel. I also have kept the three page list of questions I made from submissions by skeptics of Phil. I look forward to seeing Phil and Amy again in this year and hopefully this time it will be at their factory in Charlotte, NC.

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Guest ThePattyArcade
I'm excited to see what Phil and I will be able to do with proper time, materials, and planning. No matter what, it should be fun and educational.

I take it from your post that you are hinting that Phil Morris is going to attempt another replica of the suit?? If so, is he going to be using only materials/techniques that available in 1967? Just asking, because, quite honestly, I don't see the point otherwise :)

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kitakaze

Surely you don't think I would have overlooked such a critical detail? ;)

The effort I am discussing is for Walking With Bigfoot. It is something I wanted to do last year but was unable to schedule. The production company that NatGeo contracted to do the Bigfoot episode of Is It Real? were highly unorganized with their production and shoot. They originally called Phil after they got the contract and said they were thinking of having him as a technical consultant, but that there were others being considered as well. There was never any mention of making any suit. He said he would be interested in doing it, but he was especially busy leading into October as his company is the largest wholesaler of costumes in North America. Months went by and then they called him in October, asked if he could be in Yakima next week, and that they wanted him to do a recreation of the Patty suit. Phil agreed to do it, but had to scramble to get anything done. The hair was suppllied by a friend at National Fabric who sent it to him telling him it was dark brown. Under the right lighting it is dark brown, but in direct sunlight it is much more red. Phil had no choice but to work with that.

The stipulations for the recreation attempt for my documentary project is that it must obviously use only materials available in 1967 and take no longer than two months. This is due to the fact that Phil and Amy Morris sold their suit to Roger Patterson in Yakima in August. It was Amy Morris who gave me the timeframe. I have no idea how it will turn out other than it will look much better than what he had to do in a week in 2005. I am by no means convinced that Patty was a modified Morris suit, but I have been leaning that way for some time now. The purpose of the attempt is to see if using a replica Morris gorilla suit from the 60's can be modified to look like Patty. I have also paid close attention to the things that amateur Leroy Blevins has been able to accomplish with his efforts...

89614cb7b93cbb3db.jpg

The down side is that the colour is too dark, the feet too bright, and when seen from the front it's not anywhere as close, but the comparison at the same angle from the back is excellent IMO. What's really interesting is that Blevins was able to do that in three days with two off the rack gorilla suits and a total of $242.

For my effort, I want to see if I can reproduce naturally some of the more whacky unnatural things about Patty, such as the hairy unmoving rocks on the chest, the unmoving diaper butt, the crazy subducting thigh. It's also really important to get the sunlight, the distance, and the camera and film right. One thing I think is that there will be a sort of psychological thing going on where no matter how successful it is, since people know it's a recreation and thus not real, the more passionate believers will dismiss it no matter what. Still, I am optimistic that no matter what happens, I'll have put a solid effort on the table that will tell us a lot more than we've known until then about recreating Patty.

No matter what any PGF proponent says, it has never been a matter of no one being able to recreate the PGF, but rather an issue of someone with the right resources and interest taking the time to do it.

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Guest FuriousGeorge

Will Chico be there?

Yeah the feet on the 2005 costume look fresh out of the box. Might not hurt to rough up the next one a bit. Looking forward to seeing the results.

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Incorrigible1

Kit, will you continue posting here after your program airs, if it airs?

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kitakaze

Kit, will you continue posting here after your program airs, if it airs?

It's a good question, Inc. I know full well your disdain for me and I might have felt the same about someone like me about ten years ago. A better question is why do I post here now. I certainly don't need the attention. I get plenty and more of that in the settings of skeptics. Some might think I'm just trolling. Nothing could be more boring. Do I want converts? Not at all. If I did, I would not spend so much time on specific claims like the PGF and I would be everywhere countering everything. Do I need the the viewership? Hardly. There's what - about a good 30 members on the forum on a good day? Maybe 10 max in the PGF section when it gets interesting?

Oddly, I get a sort of confused WTF? reaction from skeptics over why I bother to spend any time at all here. They don't know me much the same as you don't. I really am a Bigfooter. The weirdest kind. I really do love Bigfoot. It's a thing that refuses to leave me. But it's a wonderful myth. It's a spectre of the mind for me. I've been doing what I do on the Internet for about five years. It's nothing - a drop in the bucket. I've been an avid Bigfooter for about 25 years, but a skeptic for only five. Scott Herriott, Rick Noll, Brian Brown... any of these guys could rightfully sneeze at my time in Bigfootery. But who else has the effect I do? Look at this forum. Who is the most viewed member? I am. It's not a boast. Why is that? I don't believe in Bigfoot and my reputation level is a gob-smacking 81. What is that? There is something else at play and it is greater than me.

Last year I was asked to give a lecture at UBC on Bigfootery and my involvement with it. It was a great honour but I passed it up. I couldn't do it for one simple reason. I knew I would get in front of a crowd and I would have a hard time not blabbing about things I should not be talking about until my documentary is finished. I started out thinking to do a book. Then I realized a documentary was what really was needed. I was thinking something for television, but now it's become something for a single DVD release. Do I want money cash dollar bills? No. Bigfoot is about the dumbest way to make a living unless you have the singular fortune of being Matt Moneymaker. I have no Wally Hersom nor any desire for a Bigfoot sugardaddy.

The Melissa Hoveys of the world would have you believe I am some manner of ideological terror machine. They want you to think I would make fools of every single person who ever believed in Bigfoot. They don't even know me. It would be an insult to myself and where I came from. Let the belief in Bigfoot go on and on. I just don't care. All I care about are the tangibles - the specific claims. My interest in specific claims is not to burn down the house. There is a genuine hope to be wrong. But wishful thinking sustains nothing.

Will I continue posting at the BFF after Walking With Bigfoot comes out? Yes. I will do the same then as I do now - address specific claims - the best ones there are. I will spend more time on my own website, but the BFF will not fall to the wayside for me.

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BobZenor

This response would be rather off topic of the tread Modern Researchers Are Bypassing Traditional Academia so I posted it here.

I agree with Sallaranda at least to the point that most people are going to see the PGF as a man in a suit because they believe that bigfoot is too fantastic to be a real creature. They are left with only the option of a man in suit. The fact is, in my opinion, that many aspects of the PGF as a man in a suit are also very difficult to account for.

Looks like a man in suit? I have never seen a man in suit walk with such fluidity. I have never seen a man in suit have such huge completely natural arms that swing so naturally from the very broad shoulders. ... I could go on and on.

If it looks like a man in a suit then I haven't seen a comparable example. Surely one exists somewhere? Without that, it looks like a man in a suit only by default. Not only do I seriously doubt that Patterson could have made such a suit, I doubt that anybody today could make one either and make it look as natural walking on a stream bed. The red Ewok that Bob H wore sure didn't come close. Other attempts I have seen fail even when the suit is stationary and look comical in comparison when the subject is moving. Morris had more than 40 years, not a week to make that weak attempt.

I think this is a better comparison to the Bob H in his Morris suit.

.BobHMorrisSuitComparisonSC.gif

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SweatyYeti

Time to clean up the kit........*crap*... ;) ...

kitakaze wrote:

One week, the wrong colour hair, and Phil was able to achieve something pretty important. No arm extensions necessary and BH in a suit can match Patty's proportions.

First off...as kitakaze knows full well...the CowCamp suit does, indeed, extend the length of Bob's arms...

BobSuitBobCompCombined3.jpg

BobBobSuitArmCompAG1.gif

Why kit would say that it doesn't...when he knows that it does......is beyond me.

And, regarding he Blevins/Patty comparison, that kit posted.....here is a more accurate comparison of Blevin's suit, with Patty...

BlevinsPattyFR72CompAG1.gif

kit wrote:

The down side is that the colour is too dark, the feet too bright, and when seen from the front it's not anywhere as close, but the comparison at the same angle from the back is excellent.

First...the 'angle of view' is not the same. Blevins is seen at less of an angle...closer to a rear view....than Patty is.

And it doesn't really qualify as "excellent".....for a number of reasons. A couple of differences are...

Patty's shoulders, and upper-body, are wider than Blevins...and her arms hang straight down....while Blevins' arms angle-out.

One other difference, which I highlighted in the gif...is how Blevin's shoulders appear to be padded, upwards....while Patty's does not.....since the length from the 'top of the head', down to the 'top of the arm' is shorter on Blevins, than it is on Patty.

Even with her exceptionally long arms...Patty's shoulder doesn't appear to be "built-up", with padding.

And, last, but not least....when you consider the extreme shoulder-width of Patty...in combination with the length, and straightness of her upper-arm, when swung forward at about 30-40 degrees...(see my avatar)....you have to wonder how it is, that there isn't an unnatural bend in Patty's upper-arm, a few inches below the shoulder/armpit, when there would have to be, if Patty's extreme upper-body width was a product of padding around the shoulders, and chest.

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Guest demon

and again more totally pointless yellow/red lines. don't you ever get tired of doing it?

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Guest Thepattywagon

I'd be interested to see if Morris's vintage '60s Dynel will look anywhere close to natural in the sunlight. Blevins suit is a big fail in this regard, as is CowCamp Bob. Patty's hair/fur coat looks like that of any other real animal the way the sunlight reflects on it. Neither of those other two suits are in the ballpark.

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xspider1

Patty's hair/fur coat looks like that of any other real animal the way the sunlight reflects on it. Neither of those other two suits are in the ballpark.

Agreed! : B

'Are We able to recreate the PGF today?' The answer seems to be: "No, Halloween always interferes with what would be a very easy solution to one of the World's most enduring mysteries."

The only problem I see with all of the creature costumes (such as this):

morris.jpg

is that it they fail in every single physical aspect (which are virtually countless in number) compared to this:

pfwalk.gif

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SweatyYeti

and again more totally pointless yellow/red lines. don't you ever get tired of doing it?

Lots more to come. :)

And, I'll be posting more about what I mentioned at the end of my previous post...the combination of...

1) Exceptionally wide 'shoulder/chest width'...

2) Exceptionally long Upper-arm

3) Arm swung forwards, or backwards, at a significantly large angle

4) Straightness of the upper-arm.

That combination is something which cannot be duplicated on a person of 'average body proportions'......Bob Heironimus being one of them...in a suit padded-out to Patty's dimensions.

If you add a significant amount of padding to either the side, or the top...(or both)...of the shoulder...the result will be a bend in the upper-arm, at a point well below where it normally bends...

PattyArmFootballPadsComp1.jpg

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Guest demon

Lots more to come. :)

And, I'll be posting more about what I mentioned at the end of my previous post...the combination of...

1) Exceptionally wide 'shoulder/chest width'...

2) Exceptionally long Upper-arm

3) Arm swung forwards, or backwards, at a significantly large angle

4) Straightness of the upper-arm.

That combination is something which cannot be duplicated on a person of 'average body proportions'......Bob Heironimus being one of them...in a suit padded-out to Patty's dimensions.

If you add a significant amount of padding to either the side, or the top...(or both)...of the shoulder...the result will be a bend in the upper-arm, at a point well below where it normally bends...

PattyArmFootballPadsComp1.jpg

and all pointless.

explain the square shoulders,the fake static rear.the huge fake boobs.the triangle butt section.

all your lines and x's and bobs not the right size in your opinion don't make it less of a suit.which clearly it is..you cannot as a rational adult say that is a real creature..lol not even close.

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Guest demon

Agreed! : B

'Are We able to recreate the PGF today?' The answer seems to be: "No, Halloween always interferes with what would be a very easy solution to one of the World's most enduring mysteries."

The only problem I see with all of the creature costumes (such as this):

morris.jpg

is that it they fail in every single physical aspect (which are virtually countless in number) compared to this:

pfwalk.gif

and that triangle rear doesn't fail?? or that curious square shoulder pad it has

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