Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Guest

Are We Able To Recreate Pgf Today?

Recommended Posts

Guest

No-one has even come close to re-creating the realistic features that we see on Patty, Susiq. :) Dfoot included.

The only thing he ever accomplished was to make 'static sculptures' of Patty's body....and, without replicating the most significant feature....the 'Elbow position/reach', that Patty has.

To date, any and all pictures and videos of 'men in suits'...(seen under conditions comparable to Patty)....are flat-out unambiguous. They wouldn't make a person wonder what they're seeing for 43 seconds...let alone 43 years...(and counting).

Now, as for this comparison...which kit continues to cling to......for dear life... :lol: ...

PattyBob352CompAG2Fade1.gif

...it does not contain any information regarding the location of Bob's elbow.

Here is a comparison, with information, regarding the elbows...

PattyBobElbowComp77.jpg

The comparison of Bob and Patty shows that with Bob's scaling adjusted so his elbow is close to, but still not equal to, the position that Patty's elbow reaches down to....his 'body height' is seriously OVER-scaled.

And, it's in similar fashion to Dfoot's suit "recreation"...information regarding the position of Dfoot's elbow, is very limited, at best....and, as with Heironimus....it appears that Dfoot's upper-arm length/elbow-reach...comes up a tad short of Patty's...

PattyDfootPattyElbowCompAG1.gif

Don't be fooled by kitakaze's, and Dfoot's, over-simplified analysis, Susiq.

There's much more to be considered....in a thorough comparative analysis.

I'm noticing several areas where Patty's hair is thinner, possibly in areas of her body where she may scratch herself. Imagine living in the woods with ticks, fleas, built up dirt etc, she would be scratching, and wearing her hair/fur(?) down with constant scratching. I see on the side of her leg where her hand moves back and forth that she has almost bald spots where her hand moves across as she walks.I believe that Patty has a habit of sliding her nails along the side of her leg as she walks which would explain the uneven look to the fur/hair there. That is making me lean towards believing Patty is the real deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Bill is quite right and anyone who ever says something to the effect of...

"Patty and the PGF have never been able to be recreated."

Or something like this...

...is simply spreading misinformation. Bill is quite right about the most important element - money. Money is exactly what it comes down to. Bigfooters will often have a skewed perception of the effect of the PGF or the importance of the subculture of Bigfootery. It is simply a fringe interest comparable to more popular fortean interests such as ghosts or UFO's and when TV shows are made on the subject, they are almost always geared towards a greater mass audience that is not deeply invested in the topic. They don't bother with whether or not they can meet the expectations of the fringe culture of Bigfootery, simply because Bigfootery has way too many expectations, and the aim of the average Bigfoot show is to shoot off an hour of recycled footage and interviews addressing the essential question, "Is It Real?" with the requisite outcome of "Mmmm... Could be!"

If you want to see the sum total of professional Hollywood suitmakers who have undertaken a corporately financed effort to recreate the PGF, the subject, with the materials used at the time, the number is...

0

There have been about three individuals who have made a private effort. Here they are...

1) Hollywood stuntman Jeff Pruitt aka Dfoot...

47203.gif

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0699231/

Jeff started out as a PGF/Bigfoot believer, but became a skeptic after examining the PGF in depth. Jeff had a variety of theories regarding the suit construction and the whodunnit which I won't bother rehashing here. Jeff had no funding beyond his own and underttook the effort as a personal project. Jeff's efforts became sidetracked into the usual antisocial drama of Bigfootery and he eventually abandoned his efforts for lack of funding.

Here's a look at some of his efforts...

111copy.jpgdFOOTWALKS-WITH-pAT-WEBcopy.gif

leg-1.jpg

http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/Dfoot/?action=view&current=DARKFACE-YARD.mp4

Next are the efforts of amateur enthusiast Leroy Blevins...

89614cb7b93cbb3db.jpg

Finally are the efforts of Phil Morris for NatGeo's Is It Real? episode...

PattyBob352CompAG2Fade1.gif

896149da772b378c7.jpg

Phil had only a week to prepare his suit and was unable to get the appropriate colour dynel. He did later remold the mask and apply the appropriate colour hair when he had more time for a display (nevermind the CG face overlay)...

89614c22eac396afa.gif

As noted by Bill, the suit filmed by the BBC created by Optic Nerve Studios was an off-the-rack suit which was used in an effort to create a re-enactment of the action, not the subject, of the PGF. See here from 4:15...

This is then twisted by the BFRO into this...

PGFcomparison_01.jpg

"The BBC's 'identical match' of the Patterson 'costume'." - BFRO

http://bfro.net/REF/THEORIES/pgfdebunkings.asp

The BFRO is a for-profit business that succeeds on its ability to convince people of the existence of Bigfoot. They have a financial motivation when misinforming people about the nature of the BBC X Creatures episode.

So the question of the thread is can we reproduce Patty and the PGF? As noted in other threads, the Bigfoot suit from Letters From the Big Man is a good starting point...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_M2XtZR91Tag/TT_dMbJF8AI/AAAAAAAAAYM/ewEzfllJq10/s1600/letters_from_the_big_man.jpg

Have a look at the suit from the 00:41 mark for an excellent comparison to Patty...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jNS0_t4EpI

Matt Moneymaker has seriously mistaken that suit for being CGI...

http://bfro.net/news/letters_big_man.asp

Can we recreate the PGF today? I think absolutely yes, and that is why I will seek to do so with the assistance of Phil Morris for my documentary film project. No matter the outcome, I think the effort will be educational and entertaining.

I absolutely agree that it looks like a real creature. The movements look genuine to me. Wow, what a great job someone did with animal movement, IMHO, but I am *no* expert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
xspider1

I think yes, anything can be recreated, to some extent. The attempts at Bigfoot costumes seen above, as with all others to date, pale in comparison to the PGF, in my opinion. Money is of course one reason for that but, there is also another very simple explanation. ;)

Edited by xspider1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill

Jodie:

"Well just out of curiosity, if it costs so much to recreate now, how was it financially feasible the first time around? That reason doesn't make any sense to me."

That's actually an excellent question, and shouldn't go overlooked amid the repeaded picture galleries above.

Any person who would be considered qualified to make a good costume is unlikely to do it for free, or even for just material costs, because there's no upside or benefit to their career if they do. If they do it exactly as Bob Heironimous describes, and it looks like a joke (and probably would) they would see their professional reputation damaged by people thinking that's the best they could do. So they wouldn't take the assignment unless they were asured enough money to do something professional enough to at least protect their reputation.

But a lot of that cost is labor (which in theory Roger didn't pay himself), a workshop overhead (which he didn't have, and we must wonder where he did the work), and a crew (it's actually rare to find a creature maker who can build a full suit, start to finish, alone, so most anyone today wuld hire crew to help do it, and of course Roger was one of those gifted guys who could either do it himself, or get helpers for free).

I am really hoping somebody saying the film's a hoax would actually try to make a suit to Bob H.'s specifications, for very little money, and we could all see how close it is to the PGF. It would be a wonderful argument for the implausability of the idea.

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Fister Crunchman

I have been looking on Youtube for the interview Kitakaze posted, with Philip Morris the maker of an ape suit he claims was used at Bluff Creek.

Anyone know where Kitakaze posted the Morris interview video?

Fister

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BobZenor

...

1) Hollywood stuntman Jeff Pruitt aka Dfoot...

Posted Image

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0699231/

Jeff started out as a PGF/Bigfoot believer, but became a skeptic after examining the PGF in depth. Jeff had a variety of theories regarding the suit construction and the whodunnit which I won't bother rehashing here. ...

He became a "skeptic" about the time he apparently decided to try to imitate it. That was right after the NG program where they basically trashed the PGF if I remember correctly. I think it was Bigfoot, Is it Real. It would obviously be worth more as someone debunking than someone simply imitating a real creature. NG clearly looked foolish with their pathetic BobH. Patty imitation. He had been studying in depth for what must have been years before his apparent sudden change of heart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Jodie:

"Well just out of curiosity, if it costs so much to recreate now, how was it financially feasible the first time around? That reason doesn't make any sense to me."

That's actually an excellent question, and shouldn't go overlooked amid the repeaded picture galleries above.

Any person who would be considered qualified to make a good costume is unlikely to do it for free, or even for just material costs, because there's no upside or benefit to their career if they do. If they do it exactly as Bob Heironimous describes, and it looks like a joke (and probably would) they would see their professional reputation damaged by people thinking that's the best they could do. So they wouldn't take the assignment unless they were asured enough money to do something professional enough to at least protect their reputation.

But a lot of that cost is labor (which in theory Roger didn't pay himself), a workshop overhead (which he didn't have, and we must wonder where he did the work), and a crew (it's actually rare to find a creature maker who can build a full suit, start to finish, alone, so most anyone today wuld hire crew to help do it, and of course Roger was one of those gifted guys who could either do it himself, or get helpers for free).

I am really hoping somebody saying the film's a hoax would actually try to make a suit to Bob H.'s specifications, for very little money, and we could all see how close it is to the PGF. It would be a wonderful argument for the implausability of the idea.

Bill

I started this forum's topic because I sincerely wanted to know if anyone had ever been able to duplicate the PGF. Apparently, no one has been able to do so yet. IMHO, I think they have been unable to do so because Patty is a real creature, and even today, without using computer graphics, Patty is unable to be recreated to look as natural as she does, along with her muscle movement and hernia's clearly seen, because she is the real deal.

I also noticed that Patty brushes her hand along her leg as she walks. The hair there looks thiner so I suspect that is an habitual movement for her, and that is why the hair seems thiner on her leg at that place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Other than money, the other big problem with a recreation is deciding the parameters of the recreation. For instance, does the creature need to be 7' tall?, 6-1/2'?, 6' ?, how about 5'?. Mathmatically speaking, if Patterson used a 25mm lens, then 5' is close to correct. If 10 people had the money and time, you would get 10 different results and it would still not "prove" things either way. If someone makes a recreation that looks like the PGF it would mean "its possible", but not necessarily that it is what happened. On the other side, even if 10 people fail, it doesn't mean the next attempt wouldn't be "right on the money". It would only mean the 10 attempts didn't work.

As the old saying goes "there's more than one way to skin a cat" (or an old red horse as the case may be)

Limiting attempts to only fit BH would be a mistake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I started this forum's topic because I sincerely wanted to know if anyone had ever been able to duplicate the PGF. Apparently, no one has been able to do so yet. IMHO, I think they have been unable to do so because Patty is a real creature, and even today, without using computer graphics, Patty is unable to be recreated to look as natural as she does, along with her muscle movement and hernia's clearly seen, because she is the real deal.

I also noticed that Patty brushes her hand along her leg as she walks. The hair there looks thiner so I suspect that is an habitual movement for her, and that is why the hair seems thiner on her leg at that place.

Hi Susiq2,

You have mentioned a couple of times, the thigh where you believe that Paddy has rubbed the hair off her leg. There is certainly nothing wrong with commenting on, or wanting to discuss that subject, but just so you know, it has been cussed and discussed ad nauseam on this board. If you are interested in checking our some of the discussions, here are two threads you might want to check out if you haven't already done so: :)

PGF The Film Itself

Patty And The Subducting Thigh Line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
parnassus

Jodie:

"Well just out of curiosity, if it costs so much to recreate now, how was it financially feasible the first time around? That reason doesn't make any sense to me."

That's actually an excellent question, and shouldn't go overlooked amid the repeaded picture galleries above.

Any person who would be considered qualified to make a good costume is unlikely to do it for free, or even for just material costs, because there's no upside or benefit to their career if they do. If they do it exactly as Bob Heironimous describes, and it looks like a joke (and probably would) they would see their professional reputation damaged by people thinking that's the best they could do. So they wouldn't take the assignment unless they were asured enough money to do something professional enough to at least protect their reputation.

But a lot of that cost is labor (which in theory Roger didn't pay himself), a workshop overhead (which he didn't have, and we must wonder where he did the work), and a crew (it's actually rare to find a creature maker who can build a full suit, start to finish, alone, so most anyone today wuld hire crew to help do it, and of course Roger was one of those gifted guys who could either do it himself, or get helpers for free).

I am really hoping somebody saying the film's a hoax would actually try to make a suit to Bob H.'s specifications, for very little money, and we could all see how close it is to the PGF. It would be a wonderful argument for the implausability of the idea.

Bill

Bill

Patterson got the basic suit already made by a man who has come forward, a man and his wife, a man who made many more costumes than you ever did, but you choose not to talk to.him/them. So is it surprising that you don't know how the suit was made? The cost? Patterson probably got it for free (using money he got from Radford) and apparently added some spare parts that he got from the maker and could have scrounged up. You say he didn't have a shop but he clearly did have a workshop and he did have the ability to get people to help him for free if needed. He also had lots of free time, imagination, artistic and construction ability. The big payday was in sight. The suit is not perfect as many can see in the stabilized versions and gifs now available.

You don't know how it was made. Fine. That is your problem. Or maybe it's not a problem for you. With all due respect, this was not a Hollywood production with makeup crews building this and set designers buiding that. This was not your world. This was a glorified home movie. Phillip Morris has a pretty good idea of how it was made. Maybe we should listen to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill

parnassus:

see whatever you want to see, and believe whatever you want to believe.

What I'm looking at will burst your little amusing bubble, will burst Morris's claim, and will take Bob H. forever out of the PGf picture.

I just hope the evidence I am tracking down still is available to evaluate.

Maybe this'll resolve, maybe it won't. Can't say.

Guess we'll just leave it at that and see what the future holds.

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LAL

parnassus:

see whatever you want to see, and believe whatever you want to believe.

What I'm looking at will burst your little amusing bubble, will burst Morris's claim, and will take Bob H. forever out of the PGf picture.

I just hope the evidence I am tracking down still is available to evaluate.

Maybe this'll resolve, maybe it won't. Can't say.

Guess we'll just leave it at that and see what the future holds.

Bill

Bill, the edge of my seat is really getting hard. Can we fast-forward in time or have me frozen like Eric in South Park until all the results are in and you can tell us about it? :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill

Lu:

"Can we fast-forward in time or have me frozen like Eric in South Park until all the results are in and you can tell us about it?"

Oh, how I wish we could.

I am so tired to the "Morris in Wonderland" fantasy and those who cling to it.

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SweatyYeti

Good job, Bill, of keeping your cool. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Incorrigible1

Patterson got the basic suit already made by a man who has come forward, a man and his wife, a man who made many more costumes than you ever did.........

And you see a modified Morris costume in the PGF? Seriously? I respectfully disagree as much as forum guidelines allow. Yikes, that silly Three Stooges suit is not what I see purposefully striding across the terrain at Bluff Creek, putting meaningful distance between herself and her voyeurs.

Your crusade seems to be tilting at windmills, but carry on, gallant knight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...