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Are We Able To Recreate Pgf Today?

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What line?

PattysButtView5-2.jpg

(blown up - no retouching)

It's more of a band than a line. I can still see it. I can shrink the image on my computer without retouching and it becomes even clearer. I can still see the white moccasin-like sole, as well.

Does that mean you can't see a band that runs horizontally across the middle of Paddy's lower right leg, in this frame, just as it appears, below? PattysButtView5.jpg

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I don't see a line across Patty's lower leg, either....Frame 72 has a pretty clear view of the leg...

PattyCalfMuscle2Frames1.jpg

I can clearly see the band in frame 72.

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Guest Fister Crunchman

I can clearly see the band in frame 72.

The band seems to be a film artifact--irregular details get 'tidied up' into a more regular shape--simplified in effect--during the process of coming to be represented on film. Contours, shadow, coloration, varing thickness and disposition of hair etc. Three dimentional, some of those are, and they get blended and simplified into a two dimentional representation on film.

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xspider1

'White moccasin-like soles' are a common and very real characteristic of some primates as are 'bands' in the hair/fur. I can't seem to upload pics right now but; variations of Patty's 'impossible' body, hair, muscle and facial features can easily been seen in images of other real primates. A diligent 'googling' reveals this, beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Edited by xspider1

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I can clearly see the band in frame 72.

Yikes, Guys, while everybody is nit picking, where are Patty's toes on her foot?

Yikes, Is this a costume? :(:o

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Wheellug

Optical illusion.. they are there. Has to do with film speed/motion blur/reflective surface..

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Guest LAL

Yikes, Guys, while everybody is nit picking, where are Patty's toes on her foot?

Yikes, Is this a costume? :(:o

Toes:

Pattys-foot.gif

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Why would anyone, especially a fine craftsman such as Roger, make a suit that had only 1 foot with toes? The "shadows" between the toes can't be seen on frame 72 for a few reasons:

1) The left foot was fully exposed to the sun so there were no well defined toe shadows.

2) Patty's step was not exactly 12 frames so her left foot was at a less favourable angle relative to the camera to expose shadows.

3) The sun tended to overexpose the lighter regions of the film.

4) The left foot was captured in motion. Note the motion blur at the right edge of the foot as it swings outward (swinging gait).

Could someone use some red crayons to point out the "leg band" being referred to? And while we're at it, what is Patty's calf muscle supposed to be? Bob H said there was no padding in the legs, didn't he? In which case it must have been loose Morris gorilla fabric over hipwaders right? So is the calf a bulge/fold in the hipwaders? Or is it Bob's monstrous calf bulging thru the hipwaders? Which is it?

72calf.gif

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Toes:

Pattys-foot.gif

Thank you LAL, and Wheellug.

Edited by Susiq2

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Guest

OK, I've read this entire thread and I'm ready to render the verdict on the subject. Know that I am a skeptic and reject the PGF as a real BF for many reasons. However:

All attempts at reproducing the PGF presented here have failed.

Objectivity MUST be the rule. Regardless of your point of view, the truth is that none of the recreations have satisfactorily reproduced the PGF subject. This does not mean it is a real BF, just that it MAY be and nobody has YET reproduced it.

Thanks gigantor, I think the same way. This is one reason that I am a believer in BF.

i

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Guest

Wow. I was thinking maybe my posts only showed up to me on my computer! Just kidding. :)

What do I believe the band is? First of all - dissecting each frame individually will just have us shooting arrows at shadowplay. And moving, heavy hair captures and reflects light in quite a chaotic way.

That being said - I personally think that the darker area on the right calf is either some musculature under the hair showing as a shadow.....or I think it is the shadow of the subjects right hand and curved-back fingers as it swings past the leg. So there.

Ever see that video version that makes it look like the driver shot Kennedy? If you haven't, I can provide a link. It looks VERY convincing. I believed it myself. Until you see a higher resolution version, and you realize it is shadow and reflection on the drivers or passengers hair that looks like a hand and gun coming around the drivers head. (supposed to be the drivers left hand crossing over the right shoulder)

What I am saying is that analyzing this video, at this quality, is chasing your tail in circles. There is not one thing that can be pointed out which will not have us disagreeing.

That being said - I personally think that the darker area on the right calf is either some musculature under the hair showing as a shadow.....or I think it is the shadow of the subjects right hand and curved-back fingers as it swings past the leg. So there.

If you think that it is underlying musculature, that's fine. Just pointing it out. Think it's a little too low to be fingers brushing hair, though.

What I am saying is that analyzing this video, at this quality, is chasing your tail in circles. There is not one thing that can be pointed out which will not have us disagreeing.

But Harry, if we don't analyze the video, i.e., frames gifs clips, then the PGF Forum would be reduced to talk about the back story.

Disagreeing??? :D Try to think of it as having an exchange of ideas. ;)

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If you think that it is underlying musculature, that's fine. Just pointing it out. Think it's a little too low to be fingers brushing hair, though.

But Harry, if we don't analyze the video, i.e., frames gifs clips, then the PGF Forum would be reduced to talk about the back story.

Disagreeing??? :D Try to think of it as having an exchange of ideas. ;)

Fair enough. I guess it just gets frustrating when it starts to feel like arguing.

I just wanted to add that I didn't say that I thought it was brushing of fingers over hair. I meant that I think it is the shadow of the hand and fingers on the lower leg from the sun at a high angle.

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The band seems to be a film artifact--irregular details get 'tidied up' into a more regular shape--simplified in effect--during the process of coming to be represented on film. Contours, shadow, coloration, varing thickness and disposition of hair etc. Three dimentional, some of those are, and they get blended and simplified into a two dimentional representation on film.

It appears in both frames at different angles, relative to the frames, but in the same location, relative to Paddy's lower leg, in both frames.

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Fair enough. I guess it just gets frustrating when it starts to feel like arguing.

I just wanted to add that I didn't say that I thought it was brushing of fingers over hair. I meant that I think it is the shadow of the hand and fingers on the lower leg from the sun at a high angle.

My apology. I misread what you said.

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I just wanted to add that I didn't say that I thought it was brushing of fingers over hair. I meant that I think it is the shadow of the hand and fingers on the lower leg from the sun at a high angle.

Good eye Harry. The shadow of the right arm is constantly casting shadows on the right leg.

305_319_legs.gif

ETA: If someone is willing to assume the same approx. body posture as Patty, a line can be estimated from the shadow of the right hand on the calf muscle to the right hand. Plot these 2 points on the wall and you have your sun angle (relative to the floor). This altitude angle can be tested against the time of day, 1:30PM PDST Oct 20th 1967 at Bluff Creek, to look for discrepancies. If'n you like.

Edited by Gigantofootecus

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