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The Pendulum Limbs In The Opening Frames

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Wow, John, how do I respond?

You feel the shoulder movement is as obvious as the sky is blue and grass is green, and my not seeing it is an indicator of dishonesty, a violation of an important tenet of this discussion. I cannot expect you to believe that I believe it shows a lack of motion. That, and the repetitive nature of the discussion, makes you want to cease participation. Okay, feel free to follow your desire and cease. Sorry to see you go.

:-)

For all the others who are enjoying the discussion, or think is has some merit, let's continue. While there is some very minor shadow changes in the shoulder which may be a subtle aspect change (far less than my physiology creates as I swing my arm), the shoulder blade (scapula) and collar bone (clavicle) seem to operate as one immobile unit. When I swing my arm, they twist. I see no twisting in the animation. They appear solid and disconnected from Patty's shoulder joint, exactly like a man wearing shoulder pads.

While the arm swings back against the lower rear of the shoulder pad (scapula area), it presses against rear pad. No shadow is seen behind the tricep. The blade does not move away but rather covers the inner tricep region.

post-22065-0-20619900-1359591538_thumb.p

When the arm swings forward, the shoulder pad structure again appears to stay in place, creating a deep upside-down V shadow in the tricep area of the arm.

post-22065-0-17689700-1359591561_thumb.p

post-22065-0-25204700-1359591838.gif

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PBeaton

HardDataLover, Might I suggest lookin' at the same area from the side view. Might help. Pat...

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Guest

Do I load the GIF into Adobe After Effects and use the 3D tool to spin it to the side, like the album covers on an iPhone?

haha

I'm betting you're saying skip those frames and look at later frames, around 315 to 352, when Roger had run up to the downed tree and Patty's lookback creates a side view. Right?

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Guest

One of the things that caught my eye in this sequence ifs the butt crack. The more I look at it, the more amazing this suit becomes. How did a man on Patterson's budget afford such a state of the art suit?

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Guest

HDL, this was discussed over two years ago in a thread started by Drew. Nothing wrong with discussing this subject, again. Both skeptics and proponents, alike, bring up and rehash things that have been discussed in the past, quite often.

Below is part of a quote from something I posted in that thread, just so you know that you're not alone in what you believe you are seeing.

"The bottom right edge of the panel runs, horizontally, too far beyond where the back would, in a real animal, tie into the shoulder area. Instead, it ends unnaturally, and appears to be tied to nothing. The vertical edge runs up behind what would be, if this were a real animal, the posterior head of the deltoid. You can follow the line up to the top of the shoulder. In one frame the "deltoid" appears to be butted up against, and under the panel. In the other frame the subject's arm is in a more forward position and the separation between the "deltoid" and the panel is even more pronounced. I see nothing that resembles a scapula, either."

There are a couple of other anomalies that can be seen in the OP gif and the frames below.

Below is a link to that thread, if you're interested:

http://bigfootforums...g-gif-of-patty/

feet.gif

feet1.gif

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HOLDMYBEER

Romano's moving gif seems to show more movement in the shoulder, the arm not just hanging from under a fixed shoulderpad. I keep reminding myself we are looking at surfaces and shadows formed by a fairly substantial hair/fur covering, not necessarily an exact representation of the underlying flesh.

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Guest

Okay Romano, why isn't there a consolidated list of the issues with the PGF that point to a potential hoax? There is a pretty good compilation of the elements that point to authenticity in the form of the Munns report.

Your original description was right on, and well articulated. But while the thread is searchable, it's all but lost to newcomers. Furthermore, it appears to have no impact on either the beliefs of forum members nor the focus of recreation efforts. I know of no adequately representative suit donned by someone in shoulder pads and filmed walking from that oblique angle for comparison.

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Guest Thepattywagon

Two words; Cow Camp.

Apparently Bob H in a padded suit didn't look convincing enough for the actual moving video to be released. All we have are stills, which are pretty laughable.

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Guest

And has anyone discusses the wristwatch banding ? That also seems unnatural, and occurs in many frames.

post-22065-0-56806500-1359644658_thumb.p

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Cotter

HDL, yeah, that points been brought up. It's been countered by folks showing pics of apes and gorillas that have similar 'wristbands' in the same area.

I'm curious, for this discussion, have you made any assumptions as to HOW the suit was donned or what it was made of? (2 pc suit, 1 pc w/zipper, modified morris, horsehide, etc)

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Drew

And has anyone discusses the wristwatch banding ? That also seems unnatural, and occurs in many frames.

post-22065-0-56806500-1359644658_thumb.p

Yes, that's been discussed for years.

As far as the back of the legs, it looks a lot like a goalie's leg.

goalie.jpg

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Guest

^ yes, the back of the left leg especially. I do't know what could account for the lighting pattern we see on that leg at that time (but I'll search for other threads on goalie legs, and wristband).

Cotter, every time I see a line that looks as if it could be a fur-covered suit separation line, some other part of the film depicts the same area as natural-looking and dispels the illusion. I will offer that I believe Patty's head to be of sufficient size that it could easily be a fur and foam covered helmet on a youthful man. I don't agree with those who posit the low forehead disallows a human head in a mask.

If it is a hoax, then *someone* had to be in the suit. If not Bob H, then who? Yet I'm not persuaded by Bob H., with the exception of his lie detector tests, about which I want to read more, as I don't believe lay people can readily pass lie detector tests.

My standing hypothesis is that it is a well executed hoax conducted with Gimlin's full participation.

Gimlin and Bob H. were friends, were depicted in the same photos, and lived near each other for most of their lives. Gimlin likely told H. of the hoax and some of the suit details. Bob H. didn't out Gimlin because there was no compelling reason to do so -- until Gimlin started becoming the toast of the town. In the past decade, Gimlin's stature has escalated to the point where he's a celebrity sought after for autographs and photos. People write that their having spent some time with Gimlin was an incredibly important moment in their lives. Even Gimlin's birthday is celebrated within the growing bigfoot community as a national event. I can easily see Bob H. resenting the growing disparity between his life outcome and that of Gimlin, all the while knowing the truth. But rather than come out and reveal that Gimlin told him he had hoaxed the PGF, Bob H. offered that he was a member of the team. Likely, he did not expect the level of scrutiny that came with the claim,and began embellishing rather than lose credibility by admitting to lying about his role.

As for the suit, I don't think a Morris suit is a good starting point. Rather, a suit of the type used in the Lost In Space episode of 1966, with a different head, appears to me to be a better match. In the episode clip on Hulu, you can see moments of butt definition and back creasing, as well as very long arms and semi-curled hands, all set to supple fur.

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Cotter

HDL, interesting theory, however, one of the hard things to swallow is that we supposedly have a guy that was 'in the know', heck he claimed to wear the suit, come up with so many versions all seem to be unreliable, and none seem to describe what your theory (and others) have put forth.

Boy, there's been tons of stuff discussed about lie detectors, their inaccuracies, and the administor of Bob H's test supposedly being a fraud...(LOL more searches for you).

I see some (most) of what you see, but I also find it hard to really be able to determine where fur ends, skin/suit begins and the like. So for the most part, i keep quiet about muscle movement/non-movement, etc.

For me, arm length and back stride (leg rise) are 2 important points to consider as difficult to replicate as a man in a suit...just me tho. I see things that make me think hoax, I see things that make me think real. It's a tough call.

Though, as a proponent, I am accepting the probability this creature exists, so I am a bit biased, but is the PGF showing a real BF? I've heard from several eye witnesses that she's pretty close to what they've seen (appearance wise).

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Guest

Okay Romano, why isn't there a consolidated list of the issues with the PGF that point to a potential hoax? There is a pretty good compilation of the elements that point to authenticity in the form of the Munns report.

Your original description was right on, and well articulated. But while the thread is searchable, it's all but lost to newcomers. Furthermore, it appears to have no impact on either the beliefs of forum members nor the focus of recreation efforts. I know of no adequately representative suit donned by someone in shoulder pads and filmed walking from that oblique angle for comparison.

HDL, There have been threads in the past that have listed several anomalies, but nothing on the order of what Bill has accomplished. Bill is obviously very committed and passionate about his work. I personally do not have the desire, and probably not the capacity to do what Bill has done, on the skeptical side.

You are correct about this particular discussion, in the past, being all but lost on newcomers. That's why there is nothing wrong with bringing up the subject again.

As far as it having no impact on the beliefs of forum members; that may very well be the case, but who really knows. I simply point out what I believe to be anatomical anomalies, oddities, and impossibilities. Forum members can decide, for themselves, whether or not there is merit to the things pointed out. (It was while viewing the PGF several years ago, that I observed and recognized what I determined to be an anatomical oddity, and eventually turned from proponent to opponent of the PGF.) As I have said in the past, I claim to have proved nothing to anyone but myself.

As far as no one having donned a suit wearing shoulder pads that rivals the PGF, I don't disagree, but I, personally, did not need to see any kind of rendering of a suit to know that the PGF was a hoax.

Also, look at the two frame gif in my post #20; the frame where the arm is in the back swing. Look at the trapezius as it slopes from the back of the head, down toward the deltoid. Notice how the trap just drops off. It does not intersect with the deltoid. There is a two frame gif that isolates and enlarges it. I'll try to locate it. At one time I believed that it was just the result of the white tree in the background washing out that area, but there is another two frame gif from further down the path that shows the same thing.

Edited by Romano

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Guest

This two frame gif isolates and magnifies an anatomical oddity. It was originally posted by

Gigantofootecus. I believed we agreed, at the time, that it was more than likely an area that had been washed out by the white tree/object in the background. I was satisfied with that explanation until I noticed the same oddity in another two frame gif, separated by numerous frames and a good portion of the subject's path.

rshoulder.gif

This second gif in which the two frames, as far as I have been able to determine, are separated by a minimum of three hundred frames and maybe fifty feet of the pathway, catches the subject in almost the identical body position, alignment and angle. The most noticeable difference between the two frames, as far as the body is concerned, is that the head appears to be lifted a little higher in one frame than in the other. The anomaly associated with the trapezius and right shoulder is apparent in both frames of this gif .

F72-F442AG5.gif

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