Jump to content
Guest

Bill Munns' Pgf Presentation From The Texas Bigfoot Conference

Recommended Posts

PBeaton

Dang it ! Guess it is no longer showin' the presentation ? Pat...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ike

Bill, I really appreciate and enjoy the work you've put it to this, and it was great to hear you on the Bigfoot Show. While I tend to look at all of this with a skeptical eye, I have become fairly convinced (with no small thanks to you) that Patty just may be the real deal. However, in the interest of looking at other possibilities, this mesh thing has made me think about something that perhaps you have already thought of. If not, perhaps you would like to weigh in on it. Years ago, I was in an antique mall and ran across a very old halloween mask which was made out of screen wire and had been painted up to have a "devil" face. Clearly, it had been formed to a real human face or model thereof, and gave an overall very disturbing effect. In recent years, I thought it might be fun to have one and did some looking around. Apparently these are big for Mardi Gras celebrations:

http://www.louisiana...wire_masks.html

Is there any possibility that a hood or helmet could conceivably have one of these attached, upon which hair has been glued? Or do the mechanics of the thing make it impossible/unlikely?

1_b73eba1b8979f51be115f08f12ce5b69.jpg

To me, it's definitely something like a talented amateur could come up with. Though truthfully, I have a hard time buying that Roger Patterson, no matter how many saddles and miniature stagecoaches he built, or how many campy gunfight towns he hung out at, would have the expertise to pull something like this off.

Edited by Ike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill

Ike:

Interresting idea. Any solid part (with hair, for example) will have a different photographic intensity than the mesh, and a transition from solid to mesh seems like it would be quite abrupt and have an obvious line of demarcation. I've never shaped wire mesh, but I suppose you could start with a wood positive face shape and pound the mesh with a rubber hammer to shape it around the wood form.

If time and resources permit, I may try it.

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
xspider1

The Bigfoot Show is very interesting. It's fascinating to hear actual dialogue from the PGf trenches. Thanks, guys!

:preved:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zenmonkey

Thank you Bill for all of your research and hard work I am about half way through the BFS with you on it very good episode as always. I must say I personally tend to lean with Scott about the PGF but all the work that you have put into it is very very convincing although it is the back story to the PGF that strawys me away from the film being real. One more but......when I watch the film I can't help but be blown away by what I see. Thanks Chad

Edited by zenmonkey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Galahad

Bill, I have completely enjoyed Your process of discovery. Thank You for keeping the ball rolling. I know that "Suit" proponents are holding fast and as frustrating as that seems it has value. It is not the proponents that keep you experimenting it is the antagonist pushing you for incontrovertible evidence. You don't seem to be the type to back down from a challenge. You answer skeptics with a test to demonstrate the evidence. If there is disagreement then you push forward with more testing. The analysis of the filmed subject has to be put into true context. By adding up ALL the scientific points you have examined, skin, tissue, hair flow, breasts with compound curves, head placement, joint placement, flexing hands, flexing feet, walking mechanics, foot morphology, it becomes difficult to refute. The volume of the "Yeah but" crowd seems to be diminishing. Thank you for your undeniable persistence and framing your observations with a testable methodology. It keeps the focus on the data which is exactly where this discussion needs to stay.

Edited by Galahad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill

Galahad:

Thanks. I've actually enjoyed the process of discovery myself. It's been quite an adventure, and I've learned some truly fascinating things myself in the last 5 years.

And I certainly will keep the focus on the data, the film, etc. and keep reminding people that is the best evidence, and the "backstory" material is tabloid fodder really.

There's far more work to be done, and there is also the task of getting the message out to the public in a more forceful and compelling way, which I'm hoping can be done.

Paraphrasing the famous line from Star Wars, "May the science be with you".

:)

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Galahad

Bill, I have talked with Derek. We are both excited about having you as a guest speaker at an, Olympic Project expedition. Hope to chat with you soon to firm up date.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill

sounds exciting. Looking forward to further discussions.

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Orygun

Stan:

Okay, found it.

The problem of tailoring furcloth that way is that it still has a tailoring seam right across the armpit fold, and a tailoring seam is stiffer than the furcloth alone, and thus more likely to buckle, which the PGF never does. But we'd be hesitant to use that design for a suit because the arm hair lay would be pointing to the arm, not directly down to the chest area, and no amount of brushing of the hair will get it to lay on the chest and look natural. And the fill in piece on the torso center (covering the collarbone) would have a hair lay straight down onto the chest, and so the seam where the arm hair goes sudeways and the center section goes down, that disparity of hair lay would make the seam very obvious.

It would take a very sophisticated furcloth tailor to resolve those issues and make it look good.

Bill

Why do you assume that furcloth was used? If, in 1967, I wanted to recreate a fur I would have used actual fur/skins. What made you dismiss that hypothesis?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill

I've used real fur on several jobs, and know others who have also, and the tailoring challenges of real fur pelts are actually more complicated than fabricated furcloth. If you want to suggest a "PATTY SUIT" was made of real fur hides, the task of doing so just gets even harder for anyone to do well. The issue of hair lay, as discussed in what you quoted, remains a problem equally with real fur as it does for furcloth.

real fur, not being shaped in convenient 5' wide bolts of whatever length you order, is actually more wasteful also. Whereas with furcloth you may throw away about 1/3 to 1/2 of the cloth as trims and cutout sections, with real fur, the waste factor increases because the pelts are not usually shaped as you need the pieces and so you cut more smaller odd shapes and have more waste scraps. Then you have to match the color, unless you plan to dye all the fur once tailored, because pelts come in varied colors from different individual animals. I once made a lion paw with rabbit pelts and all I needed was about 8 to cover the arm and paw, but I had to buy about 25 pelts to get the colors to blend right from one section to another, because on many animal pelts the fur goes lighter under the belly, and those color transitions make the suit color blend more of a problem.

If Patty's a suit, the person who made it has some knowledge of suitmaking, and with some knowledge, any such person would more likely use furcloth, which is why I focus my comments on that alternative. So I have no problem entertaining the hypothesis that real fur could have been used, if you have no problem with such a hypothesis being more complicated than a furcloth hypothesis.

Bill

Edited by Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

^Bill, doesn't all this beg the question of ability to obtain said potential suit? There's been ZERO showing (other than one unsupported claim from Morris) that anyone in Hollywood made "the suit", and Patterson clearly lacked the necessary skills to do it himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill

Mulder:

Many doubtful people cling to the fantasy that a man who had some skills as a saddle maker could thus make a ape suit, but it's a silly fantasy, like saying because I have a great socket set in my toolbox and know how to use it, I can fix a car.

Currently, nobody is claiming anyone in Hollywood made such a suit , except maybe a few John Chambers holdouts who heard the stories about him and can't let go.

But except for an occasional verbal drive by firing off of a sound bite comment, nobody else in Hollywood seems to be talking much at all. I sure can't get anybody to talk about it with me.

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wheellug

back to the event..

.. missed it.. not intentionally. So wanted to meet everyone.

Ended up out of state for a farewell..

Perhaps next time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Bill, understanding you may have to be circumspect, I wonder why it is they won't talk to you...do they know something they don't want getting out, or is it just they consider it "done and done" (it's a suit, and that's that)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...