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Reasons Not To Consider The Pgf A Hoax (2)


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Backdoc

I find it ridiculous for some to say that Roger and Bob had the burden to prove what they did by encountering a Sasquatch, when they did in fact proved it when they filmed it, which is all they could do unless they shot and killed the darn thing.

 

They then filmed the trackway and cast two of the best prints. Patterson called for a tracking dog to be brought down so to try and track the animal. The film is their proof that what they say occurred did in fact happen. They didn't attempt to conceal the film site from anyone. The site remained intact for any and all to go there and see the evidence for themselves, which was the case for those who bothered to go find it. If someone is to claim they faked their experience, then it is without a doubt in my view that the accuser of fakery bares the burden of proof.

  

Bigfoothunter,

 

Thank you for this excellent point.  The skeptics only answer is, "it has to be a guy in a suit"   I think you make a great point.

 

Backdoc

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roguefooter

I think the believer camp (former member) has wrapped the whole PGF sequence of events up into a nice convenient package, and are hoping an ongoing study of the film is going to put a nice little bow on the top. All other evidence regarding the film is to be ignored. Kit pretty much proved that the entire backstory is full of holes. And he did a good job of laying out his arguments. Of course, most just piled on, and chose to ignore his findings. But just the work he did on Patterson's beard growth was enough to taint the whole 'story'. Not to mention the bent stirrup. And where is the other reel? Bet that has some interesting footage. 

 

It seems you've only been paying attention to Kit, because the whole beard growth idea has been shown to be most likely just over-exposure in the film. I even posted other examples to show the same 'instant beard growth' from over-exposure. Why did you ignore that?

 

The backstory being full of holes is the primary reason it's not worth anything. Especially the overwhelming lack of tangible evidence to back any of it up, and of course Bob Heironimus' ever changing story. With so many flaws why even bring it up as anything of value?

 

Nobody is ignoring any so-called evidence. All of Kit's ideas are based purely on speculation, and that doesn't equal evidence. If there was any merit to it then you wouldn't be sitting here spouting sour grapes. 

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Guest Bigfoothunter

 

Nobody is ignoring any so-called evidence. All of Kit's ideas are based purely on speculation, and that doesn't equal evidence. If there was any merit to it then you wouldn't be sitting here spouting sour grapes. 

 

 

Speculation that often contradicted other speculations Kit made. I'm beginning to think that summitwalker has not really read the responses Kit got hit with or there would be no justification for suggesting that anyone ignored Kit's alleged evidence.

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xspider1

I'll admit that, after a few years, I did in fact begin to ignore kit's 'evidence'.  The "face-melting" proof of a PGf hoax that he touted ad nauseam, never materialized in any form that I am aware of.  He garnered a lot of interest here and on that other site (where skepticism abounds regarding pretty much everything) but, nope: nothing, nada, zilch.  The gift of gab just can't touch this one.   

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AaronD

Yeah, I was just about to ask, was there ever a revelation of the "suit" Kit claimed to have?

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Backdoc

SUIT SPECULATION:

 

Every 1980's legal drama has a scene where the lawyer knows his client might be guilty accused of killing his missing wife.   They then in the courtroom declare the murdered wife "is about to walk in the door in 1 min"  When she does not they say, "if you looked you have reasonable doubt.  So you must think my client did not kill his missing wife"  This suit thing is the same thing. Some skeptics use this technique when they say, "I have found a suit" and then they fail to ever produce one.

 

There is no suit because there has never been a suit.   Any suit that comes forth will resemble some Lost in space suit for $9.99 in a novelty catalog from 1985.

 

Backdoc

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Bill

Kit didn't actually have it. He just knew where it was, and as he described to me in a Skype conversation, he had somebody with access to it go there and send video through a cel phone as he watched and could tell the person "get closer to this part', or "show me more of that" sort of thing. So apparently he did see something that physically exists.

 

But access to it is a problem, because apparently it's in a room of Al DeAtley's mansion which is off limits to uninvited people, and Al has no reason to allow it to "go public".

 

What has not been resolved is exactly what it is, when and why it was made, whether it's just a costume made to help promote the movie he and Roger took around the country, or (as some would like to believe) it may be "the real suit".

 

So it's probably still there, in the private room, and not accessable to anyone but either trusted family members or someone Al allows to go into that room.

 

The best chance I can think of for anybody seeing it, is if Al passes away and the State takes over his mansion as a state historical site, and them curators who manage the property may allow requests to see it, sort of like the William Randolf Heast mansion which became a California state historical site and now allows tours of the mansion.

 

So I don't see any immediate prospect of clearing up this particular controversy.

 

Bill

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AaronD

But Bill, since you believe the PGF to be the real deal, whatever "suit" is wherever, you don't believe it to be anything but something else, yes?  Sorry, my conveying skills are suffering at the moment.

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xspider1

Excellent comparison above, Backdoc. 

 

It's too bad that the guy "sending" the video to Kit couldn't record it and then send it and that, evidently Kit couldn't record it either.  If streamed then, point camera at phone to record??  :rolleyes:

 

I was just thinking that I should ask Bill:  Is it even possible to build a convincing static replica of the PGf subject 45+ years later?  Google can't seem to locate any of those but, I did find this:  >

 

post-131-0-33114700-1369968841_thumb.jpg

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SweatyYeti

Kit didn't actually have it. He just knew where it was, and as he described to me in a Skype conversation, he had somebody with access to it go there and send video through a cell phone as he watched and could tell the person "get closer to this part', or "show me more of that" sort of thing.

 

So apparently he did see something that physically exists.

 

 

 

 

How do you know that to be true, Bill?

 

 

But access to it is a problem, because apparently it's in a room of Al DeAtley's mansion which is off limits to uninvited people, and Al has no reason to allow it to "go public".

 

 

 

 

It seems kinda strange that kit was making plans for you and him to go to Al's, to inspect the suit....when apparently Al isn't cooperating in revealing the "suit". 

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It's touching, is what it is.

 

Day by day, the evidence builds that sasquatch is real.

 

Then we have people who have waited 45 years for something that if it didn't show by now, it never will.  Yet still they wait.

 

Great Pumpkinesque, that.

Edited by DWA
to remove name calling
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Backdoc

Kit didn't actually have it. He just knew where it was, and as he described to me in a Skype conversation, he had somebody with access to it go there and send video through a cel phone as he watched and could tell the person "get closer to this part', or "show me more of that" sort of thing. So apparently he did see something that physically exists.

 

But access to it is a problem, because apparently it's in a room of Al DeAtley's mansion which is off limits to uninvited people, and Al has no reason to allow it to "go public".

 

What has not been resolved is exactly what it is, when and why it was made, whether it's just a costume made to help promote the movie he and Roger took around the country, or (as some would like to believe) it may be "the real suit".

 

So it's probably still there, in the private room, and not accessable to anyone but either trusted family members or someone Al allows to go into that room.

 

The best chance I can think of for anybody seeing it, is if Al passes away and the State takes over his mansion as a state historical site, and them curators who manage the property may allow requests to see it, sort of like the William Randolf Heast mansion which became a California state historical site and now allows tours of the mansion.

 

So I don't see any immediate prospect of clearing up this particular controversy.

 

Bill

 

 

 

Bill, I am not saying there is not someone who might have seen or heard of a suit.  All I am saying is the same can be said of the Bob Heronimus episode.   I sometimes wonder what would be harder to find:   Bigfoot- if he really exist or the suit Bob and Roger used- if he does not exist.

I did not mean to say or imply that someone in good faith relating some suit story or whatever.  And a person be they a skeptic or not, I do not want to attack anyone's personal integrity.  Just think this suit story will turn out to be nothing.  If not, I would be the first to change my mind as new evidence surfaces in either direction.  

 

Backdoc

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Bill

But Bill, since you believe the PGF to be the real deal, whatever "suit" is wherever, you don't believe it to be anything but something else, yes?  Sorry, my conveying skills are suffering at the moment.

 

Aaron:

 

I'm sufficiently confident that Patty is biologically real and is not a costume of any kind that I would expect any suit or costume, if properly examined, would prove it's origin or use was something other than the PGF we know. I still hope to one day see what Al's got, and if a betting man, my money would be on either a replica for display purposes, or a promotional costume for the theatrical tour Al and Roger did.

 

The challenge is it's being examined by someone with sufficient knowledge to analyze the details of it, because the truth of what it is will be in those details. It's no big deal to make an excellent replica, given a source image. Bill Malone made perfect replicas of Robby the Robot  (From "Forbidden Planet") and I'd defy anybody to look at his and not think they were looking at the movie original. So if this thing actually does look like Patty, that just isn't enough to prove it "IS" Patty.

 

Sweati:

 

All I can say is that Kit described the event. I think he was truthful, because of some details I won't disclose (like who was on the other end of the phone), but for the record, all I have is his word. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.

 

Bill

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It's touching, is what it is.

 

Day by day, the evidence builds that sasquatch is real.

 

Then we have people who have waited 45 years for something that if it didn't show by now, it never will.  Yet still they wait.

 

Great Pumpkinesque, that.

 

 

 

That's touching, please describe how the evidence in building. Seems to me there isn't a single molecule of evidence, if there is, why does mainstream science not seem to care? Wait, because of some fictitious agenda to keep BF a secret? Come on, there is no evidence. All you have is some footage from almost 50 years ago, and a study on the film where the stated goal is to prove it isn't a suit. No bias there! 

 

 Too bad Kit is no longer here, I liked the way he brought the PGF into the light, and basically showed it was a complete hoax. He shredded the back story and people could only resort to insults to try and push back. There was a huge sigh of relief when he left, the PFG film was safe once again. But whatever, the film is what it is, a dude in a suit. A hoax planned and orchestrated to make a buck. It worked and is still working, well, for the minute portion of the population who care. But it surely deserves a spot in the Hoax Hall of Fame...in my opinion. 

Edited by AaronD
to remove part of quote in violation
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