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Patty's Feet.....and The Footprints (Part 2)


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Axe bat tree gimlins heels rounded heels of a biped

 

You are talking in circles and appear to be confused.

 

Faenor I'm out of plusses for the day.

 

Carry on...

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In a normal human gait there are two peak forces on the foot when it pushes off and when it lands. Look at the force graph in figure 3.

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/206/9/1437

If I purposely push harder, dig in, or stomp my foot I can create deeper footprints, with the same body weight, but that's not what is witnessed in a normal gait.

 

 

 

Again, my point was that the leg muscles provide additional force...above and beyond the subject's 'body weight'. A few posts ago...you claimed those muscles do not provide additional force. That claim of yours was incorrect.

 

Also, Patty's thigh muscles are much larger than a typical human's....and hence, her 'normal walking gait' may have produced more force, and a deeper footprint impression than a typical human's....(in proportion to the 'body weight'.)

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Sweety what is the circumference of Paddy's thigh? Imperial or metric your choice.

 

What was the compression factor of the substrate at Bluff Creek that day?

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One last point here.

A simpler way to look at is to suppose both Gimlin and the pgf figure jumped off the same four foot log.  Gimlin lands on his high heel and they both sink to identical depths.  Gimlins heels have a surface area of 5i n^2 and pgf figure 66 to 80 in^2.  But  the figure will land on its heel not its whole foot say 25% of the total area so 16-20 in^2.  

This will give the pgf a weight 3 to 4 times that of Gimlin say 495 to 660lbs.  Believable weight I suppose for what is seen in the film.  But the figure in the film isn't jumping off a 4 foot log it's just walking.  It's weight is going to need to increase by several magnitudes to get footprints to the depths of Gimlins high heels.

Sweaty yeti will have you believe the figure is doing a karate kick on the ground as it walks. And Bigfoot hunter relays on this priceless logic

Man walk behind horse

Man footprint deeper than horse

?????????? ??????

Proof pgf  figure footprints 5-6 times that of a man

If you have any common sense you at least must admit the footprint observations must be discarded and Gimlin was lying or a total fool.

I think it indicates a hoax the footprints were faked the exposed zipper to the hoax so to speak.

Everytime you hear Bigfoot hunter bring up 5-6 times that of a man, which he surly will you'll know I'm laughing and I'm sure Gimlin is as well.

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Faenor wrote:

 

 

Sweaty yeti will have you believe the figure is doing a karate kick on the ground as it walks.

 

 

That's not what I said, Faenor.

 

Patty...under the 'real' scenario....has massive thighs, capable of producing a tremendous amount of force. They certainly could have added to the depth of the footprint impressions...above and beyond the subject's body weight.

 

 

You would have us believe that the thigh muscles supply only the force necessary to lift the leg off the ground....as you said..."no more and no less". That was incorrect.

Edited by SweatyYeti
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Guest Bigfoothunter

Axe bat tree gimlins heels rounded heels of a biped

 

You are talking in circles and appear to be confused.

 

Faenor I'm out of plusses for the day.

 

Carry on...

 

 

Well McSquatch ... you are way off base and will plus anything that a skeptic says regardless of how ridiculous it may be. Faenor doesn't believe the nonsense he is saying in my view. You can jump off a 4' high stump and I can assure you that the rate of force of you hitting the ground will be much more than let us say you would use to push a spade (shovel) into the ground which would go far deeper. Why you ask? Because the shovel is made to cut into the surface where the semi-rounded heel of the foot relies more on force in forward motion. (see below) Gimlin made it a point to say that the heel's of his boots is what made the mark on the ground.

footdynamicsinthesteppingprocess_zpssapq

Edited by Bigfoothunter
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Guest Bigfoothunter

One last point here.

A simpler way to look at is to suppose both Gimlin and the pgf figure jumped off the same four foot log.  Gimlin lands on his high heel and they both sink to identical depths.  Gimlins heels have a surface area of 5i n^2 and pgf figure 66 to 80 in^2.  But  the figure will land on its heel not its whole foot say 25% of the total area so 16-20 in^2.  

This will give the pgf a weight 3 to 4 times that of Gimlin say 495 to 660lbs.  Believable weight I suppose for what is seen in the film.  But the figure in the film isn't jumping off a 4 foot log it's just walking.  It's weight is going to need to increase by several magnitudes to get footprints to the depths of Gimlins high heels.

Sweaty yeti will have you believe the figure is doing a karate kick on the ground as it walks. And Bigfoot hunter relays on this priceless logic

Man walk behind horse

Man footprint deeper than horse

?????????? ??????

Proof pgf  figure footprints 5-6 times that of a man

If you have any common sense you at least must admit the footprint observations must be discarded and Gimlin was lying or a total fool.

I think it indicates a hoax the footprints were faked the exposed zipper to the hoax so to speak.

Everytime you hear Bigfoot hunter bring up 5-6 times that of a man, which he surly will you'll know I'm laughing and I'm sure Gimlin is as well.

 

How many times have you spoken to Bob Gimlin, Faenor? How many hours did you spend with Bob Gimlin going over the details of that day?? By the way, Gimlin and Roger did walk up to the tracks that the subject in the film left behind and they barely left marks on the ground when the creature's tracks were deep into the ground. (see 1992 interview with John Green/Bob Gimlin)  Gimlin wasn't laughing about the track depth difference, nor was anyone who saw the evidence on the second reel. I also want to point out that unlike the film of the creature who was in motion ... the track-way footage was quite clear according to those who saw it.

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Guest Bigfoothunter

Faenor wrote:

 

 

Sweaty yeti will have you believe the figure is doing a karate kick on the ground as it walks.

 

 

That's not what I said, Faenor.

 

Patty...under the 'real' scenario....has massive thighs, capable of producing a tremendous amount of force. They certainly could have added to the depth of the footprint impressions...above and beyond the subject's body weight.

 

 

You would have us believe that the thigh muscles supply only the force necessary to lift the leg off the ground....as you said..."no more and no less". That was incorrect.

 

The Forensic Science Journal article talked about this, but Faenor doesn't feel it necessary to read the citations from the article in the thread provided to him because I assume he feels he was born with more knowledge that the scientist and experts who wrote the article. Many of us were not born 'all-knowing' like Faenor and had to rely on the article for information, which we all discussed in that thread.

 

BTW, the trailing leg in the animation in post 247 demonstrates the push off force you spoke about. It also shows the hinging of the tracking foot during that push off which supports the data reported about the dynamic forces attributing to track depth. No better of an observation can be made as the push-off of the trailing foot comes when the forefoot and toes are the only parts of the foot at hat point which is in contact with the ground. This is why the forefoot, and then the toes, are pressed even deeper into the ground when the substrate allows it than the mid-tarsal area of the foot when the entire foot was in contact with the ground.

RPfootcastdynamics_zps2a28a35b.jpg footdynamicsinthesteppingprocess_zpssapq

Edited by Bigfoothunter
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Guest Crowlogic

In all of the decades since the film was made not a single molecule  of the beast has ever been delivered to science or for that matter to the bigfoot proponent contingent.  That pretty much tells the tale that the film was a fabrication.

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In all of the decades since the film was made not a single molecule  of the beast has ever been delivered to science or for that matter to the bigfoot proponent contingent. 

 

 

Oh...Crow said it again!! :banghead:   I hate when he/she says it....he/she is so right!

 

 

I hope you don't say it again, Crow. :)

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Guest Bigfoothunter

In all of the decades since the film was made not a single molecule  of the beast has ever been delivered to science or for that matter to the bigfoot proponent contingent.  That pretty much tells the tale that the film was a fabrication.

 

That kind of approach also caused you to believe that there was a heel imprint in one of the PGF track-way cast and/or that it was pitch-black outside when Gimlin went to the film site to cover the tracks so to protect them just before the official time that sunrise came on 10/21/1967. Should we go back and count how many times you defended that nonsense because you wouldn't think past what you wanted to believe. Were you not told ahead of time that it was the altering of the light and contrast to that photo you used that gave a false impression. And did you choose to ignore that possibility even after you were told where to inquire about it.

 

Crowlogic:  "Pat this is what that photo suggests.  I has I've learned been observed before and from observers independent of my own observation.  Actually  the way the bottom right photo shows the pronounced indention across it's width could imply that the high heel of a cowboy boot inside created an unsupported gap between the heel and ball to allow for the terrain to force it into that hollow section that gets tagged as a mid tarsal break.  That is one heck of a lot of distortion for an organic foot to go through mid tarsal break or not.."

 

As people are supposed to learn from their past mistakes ... how about being the first skeptic to come up with a rational idea as to why Patty's tracks were so deep into the ground while other men couldn't hardly make an imprint when walking next to her tracks. Could it be perhaps that she was walking barefoot and weighed much more than any other subject there with the exception of Gimlin's horse.

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Guest Bigfoothunter

 

In all of the decades since the film was made not a single molecule  of the beast has ever been delivered to science or for that matter to the bigfoot proponent contingent. 

 

 

Oh...Crow said it again!!  :banghead:   I hate when he/she says it....he/she is so right!

 

 

I hope you don't say it again, Crow. :)

 

 

SweatyYeti,

 

One thing they leave out is that while there has not been another Patterson film even though cameras had been around since the turn of the Century before Roger got his and no one had gotten a good photo of one of these creatures though encounters of them had been reported all along .... they have not produced a suit with someone seen inside performing in the manner that Patty had and were able to leave such deep tracks at a place where other men could not. They overlook why someone with the expertise of Dr. Dimiti Donskoy had talked about observing a whole lot more than a subject with a thick coat of fur on it.

 

A Qualitative Biomechanical Analysis of the Locomotive Movement of the Subject of the 1967 Film Footage

Dr. Dmitri D. Donskoy

Chief of the Dept. of Biomechanics at the USSR Central Institute of Physical Culture in Moscow, 1973

As a result of repeated viewings of the walk of the two footed creature in the Patterson film and detailed examination of the successive stills from it, one is left with the impression of a fully spontaneous and highly efficient pattern of locomotion, with all the particular movements combined in an integral whole suggesting a smoothly operating and coherent system.

In all the strides the movement of the arms and of the legs is well coordinated. A forward swing of the right arm, for example, is accompanied by that of the left leg. This is called cross-limb coordination and is a must for man, and is natural in many patterns of locomotion in quadrupeds (in walking and trotting, for instance).

The strides are energetic and big, with the leg swung far forward. When man extends the leg that far he walks very fast and thus overcomes by momentum the "braking effect" of the virtual prop that is provided by the forward leg. Momentum is proportional to mass and speed, so the more massive the biped the less speed (and vice versa) is needed to overcome the braking effect of the leading leg in striding.

The arms move in swinging motions, which means the muscles are exerted at the beginning of each cycle, after which they relax and the movement continues by momentum. The character of the arm movements indicates that the arms are massive and the muscles strong.

After each heel strike the creature's leg bends, taking on the full weight of the body and smoothing over the impact of the step, acting as a shock absorber. During this phase certain muscles of the leg are extended and become tense in preparation for the subsequent toe-off.

In a normal human walk such considerable knee flexion as is exhibited by the film creature is not observed; it is practiced only in cross country skiing. This characteristic makes one think that the creature is very heavy and its toe-off is powerful, which would contribute to rapid progression.

In the swinging of the leg, considerable flexion is observed in the joints, with different parts of the limb lagging behind each other: the foot's movement is behind the shank's, which is behind the hip's. This kind of movement is peculiar to massive limbs with well-relaxed muscles. In such a case the movements of the limbs look fluid and easy, with no breaks or jerks in the extreme points of each cycle. The creature uses to great advantage the effect of muscle resilience, which is scarcely used by modern man in the usual conditions of life.

The gait of the creature is confident, the strides are regular, and exhibit no signs of loss of balance, of wavering, or any redundant movements. In the two strides during which the creature makes a turn to the right, in the direction of the camera, the movement is accomplished with a turn of the torso. This reveals alertness and, possibly, a somewhat limited mobility of the head. (True, in some critical situations man also turns his whole torso and not just head alone.) During the turn the creature spreads its arms widely to increase stability.

In the toe-off phase the sole of the creature's foot is visible. By human standards it is large for the height of the creature. No longitudinal arch typical of the human foot is in view. The hind part of the foot formed by the heel bone protrudes considerably back. Such proportions and anatomy facilitate the work of the muscles which make standing postures possible and increase the force of propulsion in walking. Lack of an arch may be caused by the great weight of the creature.

The movements are harmonious and repeated uniformly from step to step; harmony is provided by synergy (the combined operation of a whole group of muscles).

Since the creature is man-like and bipedal, its walk resembles in principle the gait of modern man. But all its movements indicate that its weight is much greater, its muscles especially much stronger, and its walk swifter than that of man.

Lastly, we can note a characteristic of the creature's walk that defies exact description: expressiveness of movement. In man this quality is sometimes manifest in goal-oriented sporting or labor activities, and leaves the impression of economy and accuracy of movement. This characteristic can be noted by an experienced observer even if he does not know the specifics of a given activity. “What need be done is neatly done†is another way of describing expressiveness of movement, which indicates that the motor system characterized by this quality is well adapted to the task it is called upon to perform. In other words, neat perfection is typical of those movements which through regular use have become habitual and automatic.

On the whole the most important thing is the consistency of all the above-mentioned characteristics. They not only simply occur, but interact in many ways. And all these factors taken together allow us to evaluate the walk of the creature as a natural movement, without any signs of artfulness that would appear in intentional imitations.

At the same time, despite the diversity of human gaits, such a walk as is demonstrated by the creature in the film is absolutely non-typical of man.

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Guest Crowlogic

You hate it when I'm right well  Sweaty if you or any other bigfoot proponent can furnish anything that runs counter to what I've stated then please by all means do so.  It would be a truly appreciated contribution to the entire bigfoot question.  However it's going to require stepping out of Patty land since I did say that nothing in the post PGF world has delivered solid validation.   

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Guest Bigfoothunter

^^

 

We step out of Patty anytime we entertain how certain observations we have made could have been hoaxed. It is not being able to explain them away as a mere man in a suit that forces us to step back into Patty being something other than a man in a suit wearing cowboy boots as you had claimed.

 

As far as you being right in saying another PGF has not been made since Patterson - stating the obvious isn't much of an accomplishment when it comes to being right an.ymore than someone saying water is wet and fire is hot

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