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Patty's Feet.....and The Footprints (Part 2)

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I like how Kitakaze says "Patty" instead of "Heironimus". :onthequiet:

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Backdoc

Kit,

 

While the two photos you provide in #45 are not only barely similar but viewed in a static way.   We are talking about dynamic movement.

 

If you watch the actual video on the left and right in actual moving video form you will see Patty's toes extend while the Stanford walking foot of Bigfoot on the left does not.   Your post actually furthers my point once you look at the video.

 

By taking just a static look it might barely look as if the two are the same.  We have video so we can get the full story.

 

A person might argue a chain saw does not work as well as a regular saw if we fail to turn the chainsaw on and use it as intended.

 

Backdoc

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SweatyYeti

 

I would say the real issue is making sophistry out of nothing. I see nothing about Patty's feet that is not explained thus...

 

 

 

 

Hey kit....have you ever made an argument against Bigfoot creatures being able to survive the harsh/cold winters in the northern latitudes of N.A.??? :popcorn:

 

Something along the lines of it being a certainty that, by this time, such creatures would have either been found dead, from cold and/or starvation....or they'd have been found hibernating. 

 

 

Do you recall ever making such an argument? If so....care to make it again? :) I can provide a link, if need be.

 

I'm asking, because....(in contradiction to that)....you have also stated that you think there is a "reasonably good" probability that they exist within the PNW....(with their harsh, cold northern winters). 

Edited by SweatyYeti

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Guest Bigfoothunter

^The feet with the moving toes in that scene weren't a part of the actual costume. They were animatronic feet worn on the arms -

 

http://propstore.auctionserver.net/view-auctions/catalog/id/22/lot/2553/?url=%2Fview-auctions%2Fcatalog%2Fid%2F22%2F

 

 

Other Harry pieces and misc Baker movie props:

 

http://propstore.auctionserver.net/view-auctions/catalog/id/22/

 

Once again Kit the Bigfoot skeptic tried to tell you everything you don't know about a subject that you know much better than he does.    :)     Of course there is the other option that he did know that additional piece of information and  withheld it for a reason.

Edited by Bigfoothunter

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kitakaze

Hey kit....have you ever made an argument against Bigfoot creatures being able to survive the harsh/cold winters in the northern latitudes of N.A.??? :popcorn:

 

Something along the lines of it being a certainty that, by this time, such creatures would have either been found dead, from cold and/or starvation....or they'd have been found hibernating. 

 

 

Do you recall ever making such an argument? If so....care to make it again? :) I can provide a link, if need be.

 

I'm asking, because....(in contradiction to that)....you have also stated that you think there is a "reasonably good" probability that they exist within the PNW....(with their harsh, cold northern winters). 

 

The argument I have made is not that Bigfoot can't survive a cold winter, but that it could do that, get enough calories in a day, have a breeding population and do all of that with zero type specimen becoming available to us. I think the post you refer to is here...

 

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4612950&postcount=118

 

I think the best probability of Bigfoot doing that anywhere and eluding scientific classification to this day is 1%. Very low, but reasonably good enough in my opinion to keep me interested in claims of reliable evidence.

 

I have said the following regarding cold temperatures being a fallacious argument against Bigfoot...

 

A small population of reclusive upright apes living in some secluded valley in the Pacific NorthWest is not an impossibility but never let a Footer try to pass that off as the concept. Footers like our SweatyYeti would have us believe that Bigfoot will come into human habitation such a Valatie, New York and spook people by the road.

In our modern world the living great apes consist of the chimpanzees, bonobos, mountain and lowland gorillas, and orangutans. All of them live in jungle-type enviroments with heavy precipitation. During the Miocene epoch, from 22 million to 5.5 million years ago we know of around 100 species of ape in the Old World. Many of those apes such as Dryopithecus in Europe and Sivapithecus in Asia lived in temperate forested climates much the same as purported Bigfoot climates.

Here is a good article from Scientific American on Miocene apes:

http://www.primates.com/history/index.html 

One does not need to look into antiquity though to see that the argument about the cold of Siberia preventing ape access to North America is not exactly solid. Though not apes Japanese snow monkeys do just fine with the cold.

 

 

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121684

I like how Kitakaze says "Patty" instead of "Heironimus". :onthequiet:

 

Yes, very weird to use the commonly held name for the creature Heironimus portrayed...

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kitakaze

Once again Kit the Bigfoot skeptic tried to tell you everything you don't know about a subject that you know much better than he does.    :)     Of course there is the other option that he did know that additional piece of information and  withheld it for a reason.

 

Actually, I was addressing this claim...

"The toes do not extend or move in this movie." 

 

As I remember the toes moving in the movie...

 

http://giphy.com/gifs/televandalist-the-addams-family-HZjMe18JVLNKw

 

How they move is beside the point as the movement of Harry's toes and what is happening with Patty's feet are very different things. I do not accept that Patty's feet are doing anything other than flapping in a clownfoot manner.

Edited by kitakaze

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Guest Bigfoothunter

Kitakaze:

How they move is beside the point as the movement of Harry's toes and what is happening with Patty's feet are very different things. I do not accept that Patty's feet are doing anything other than flapping in a clownfoot manner.

 

 

 

I know what you mean ..... but 'sophistry out of nothing' appears to be what you did when saying Heironimus must have thought the sand in Bluff Creek was "white as snow" because he wore a dark mask despite the fact that according to the story Bob H told .... it was only for a minute did he wear a dark mask during his entire time of being in Bluff Creek.

 

Then there was the sophistry of claiming that Roger hand dug the tracks by hand without crushing any of the high places of the uneven sandbar next to them with his own weight. That Bob Heironimus shoes inside a bedroom slipper with foam toes despite the film showing foot bends like those seen in the cibachromes.

 

And then there is the problem you have these in days getting people to believe that you only see flopping clown feet or anything else you claim for that matter.

Edited by Bigfoothunter

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kitakaze

I don't claim having one eye is a dark mask is the only explanation for Heironimus remembering the sand as snow white.

 

I was on a parade square many days when it was not blinding white, but rather it's normal grey, but I only recall the sliding white. I also do not have decades of seeing blinding white on film to tamper my memory. People can have that happen without any indication of deception.

 

You could not show what kind of impression Roger should have made if he wore something to prevent making tracks if you tried.

 

Heironimus's foot in Morris' costume bends much the same way it does in the PGF. Doesn't mean he has a midtarsal break... (click to enlarge)

 

yz89.jpg

 

 

https://imageshack.com/f/mkyz89j


The arms and legs look like big pieces of foam slipped over the extremities and covered in bad hair.

 

Backdoc

 

The hair work on Harry Henderson is fantastic...

 

http://giphy.com/gifs/horroredit-bigfoot-harry-and-the-hendersons-to0GZko7jk2SQ

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Backdoc

Kit,

 

Not that it will matter to you but here is the context of what was said:

 

There is a scene toward the end where a man is hunting Harry.  There is a close up of the feet walking.  The toes don't really move and do not extend at all.  Very fake.

 

You have to go to the scene and see the context of what I mean.  I spelled the scene out.  The scene is Harry walking.  I am not referencing toes not moving at all in the whole movie only during the scene I am trying to describe.   Next time you come across the film, look at the end scenes where a man (based on Rene I believe) is hunting Harry with a rifle. 

 

You are convinced the Patty toes are clown feet flopping anyway.  If so, I wonder why Harry's clown feet don't show this flop effect in the walking scenes.  That is, why do the scenes of the clown feet of Harry failed to flop in a Patty-like way if you are correct?

 

 

Backdoc

Edited by Backdoc

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Backdoc

The argument I have made is not that Bigfoot can't survive a cold winter, but that it could do that, get enough calories in a day, have a breeding population

 

 

 

This is my concern as well.  I am less concerned we don't have a body. If the PGF would prove to be a real encounter, Gimlin simply could have shot the creature and we would have a body. 

 

I agree a reasonable and continued food source, ability to continue the species and so on would be needed.  Those factors I call Support Factors would be needed.  I don't see these as a deal breaker for the existence of such a creature but I don't blindly disregard the issue of support factors either.

 

Backdoc

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kitakaze

Well, first off, Heironimus is a little over 6 ft. Kevin Peter Hall was 7'2" and wore size 17 shoes. That is certainly going to mean less flopping. Then there is the fact that the construction of the Harry feet are known, outer shell of slip latex and inner layer of flexible latex where as Patty's costume feet construction are not known for certain...

 

http://propstore.auctionserver.net/view-auctions/catalog/id/22/lot/2557/?url=%2Fview-auctions%2Fcatalog%2Fid%2F22%2F

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Guest Bigfoothunter

 Patty's costume feet construction are not known for certain...

 

So you are saying that you do not believe Heironimus when he said the feet were like bedroom slippers with foam toes? You see, no matter how they were made even if you no longer believe Heironimus as to how they appeared - did he not say that he wore his boots/shoes when in costume??

Edited by Bigfoothunter

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Guest

Kit, you are such a denialist. When did Bob H ever mention the toes? Don't you think he would have, if he had actually worn the feet?

Bob: "Hey Roger, how the heck did you make these bigfeet slippers? They have toes!"

Roger: "I'm just super talented, like Rick Baker will be someday. Call me Mr. Animatronics. Note how the hinged toes push off and contract as you walk. These are no ordinary bedroom slippers my friend. These feet exceed anything Hollywood will ever accomplish, even though no one will ever notice them in the film. Well at least almost no one."

311_336.gif

Bob: "Whatever Rog, they do help me stride out tho! Roger, you're a genius!"

Edited by Gigantofootecus

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SweatyYeti

The argument I have made is not that Bigfoot can't survive a cold winter, but that it could do that, get enough calories in a day, have a breeding population and do all of that with zero type specimen becoming available to us. I think the post you refer to is here...

 

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4612950&postcount=11

 

 

 

Thanks for providing the link to your post, kit....but it isn't the one that I was referring to. I can find that one tomorrow, for you. :)

 

 

In the meantime....from the posts you linked to, you said:

 

 

 

I think it would be more apt to say "why Bigfoot is just really painfully the dumbest thing ever," rather than "why Bigfoot can't exist." A small population of reclusive upright apes living in some secluded valley in the Pacific NorthWest is not an impossibility but never let a Footer try to pass that off as the concept. 

 

And:

 

 

I think it takes very little critical thinking to realize that such conditions inevitably lead to situations where Bigfoot eluding identification is unlikely in the extreme

 

 

 

And, you just said...regarding the probability of Bigfoot's existence:

 

 

 

I think the best probability of Bigfoot doing that anywhere and eluding scientific classification to this day is 1%. Very low, but reasonably good enough in my opinion...

 

And, a while ago you said:

 

 

 

I would think it is reasonable, and this is really pushing it, four American states - Alaska, Washington, Oregon and California and two Canadian provinces - British Columbia and Alberta. That is where I think if the 1% were to be a reality, would be the only reasonable places. Anywhere else and I think you're dealing with a pure social construct. 

 

 

 

Which is it, kit??? :popcorn:

 

Is the probability of Bigfoot's existence "reasonably good"....or, is it "unlikely in the extreme" and "painfully the dumbest thing ever"?

 

It can't be both. 

Edited by SweatyYeti

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Squatchy McSquatch

IMO Kit's concession of 1% is a generosity and placation to his current stance within the bigfoot community.

 

One percent would be bag it tag it sell it to the butcher in the store.

 

If you divide the PGF by the total number of recorded sightings the numbers are less flattering.

 

The math is there if you want to do it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbHa1xidZXM

 

 

 

 

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