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Patty's Feet.....and The Footprints (Part 2)


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This quote cannot be correct about Patty's feet from Wiki:

 

"Esteban Sarmiento is a specialist in physical anthropology at the American Museum of Natural History. He has 25 years of experience with great apes in the wild. He writes,[205] "I did find some inconsistencies in appearance and behavior that might suggest a fake ... but nothing that conclusively shows that this is the case."[206] His most original criticism is this: "The plantar surface of the feet is decidedly pale, but the palm of the hand seems to be dark. There is no mammal I know of in which the plantar sole differs so drastically in color from the palm."[207] 

 

 

I am surprised if this is a real quote.  Clearly fake or real the bottoms of the feet are covered with soil from bluff creek which is light grey on a bright day.  He should know this.

 

 

 

And the rest of the quote from Wiki:

But see Meldrum, 170–71.) His most controversial statements are these: "The gluteals, although large, fail to show a humanlike cleft (or crack)."[208] "Body proportions: ... In all of the above relative values, bigfoot is well within the human range and differs markedly from any living ape and from the 'australopithecine' fossils."[209] (E.g., the IM index is in the normal human range.) And: "I estimate bigfoot's weight to be between 190 and 240 lbs."[210]"

 

Where does that 240 max estimate come from?   And as low as 190lbs?  Again, can this be a correct quote?  What is the basis of this?  Clearly if it a man in a suit it would be man-weight.   But how is this determined by the doctor?

 

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Guest Bigfoothunter

^^

 

The weight of 190 to 240lbs was given by Esteban Sarmiento from what I gathered. How he reached that conclusion is puzzling to me still. As a primate expert - he must know that a 5.5' tall Gorilla has weighed as much as 776 pounds - the depth of the track-way supports the heavier weight. Those are the facts as we find them.

 

To merely look at the subject in the film and say it only weighs 190 to 240lbs is like looking at a image of a large box and merely guessing if it contains something made of light plastic or if its made of heavy iron.

Edited by Bigfoothunter
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Sarmiento seems to say two things at the same time every time I see him on the TV.  In that way I guess he is not different than many others who conflicted about what the see.

 

Going to the Weight of the PGF, if it is a human in a suit then by definition it would be in the human range.  If I knew it was a human in a suit, I could right away guess it would weight under 300lbs using the NFL lineman analogy.  Now in the 1960s NFL lineman was this according to the net:

 

At 6-foot-5 and 250 pounds, Cam Newton is bigger than most offensive linemen in the 1960s.

 

Thus I would put Patty -- if she was a man in a suit-- at max the weight of a 1960s NFL lineman.

 

What difference does it make what Dr. Sarmiento thinks the weight of a person might be if that is what he is getting at?  The issue would be the weight if this was a real creature. In that way we can just use as a reference the ape in the zoo weight as a point of reference.

 

Back to the feet.  For someone as intelligent as Dr. S, it seems to me to be puzzling he does not know --all these later from 1967-- the soil at bluff creek was light in color.  A person walking on that soil or a creature walking on it might reasonably have the look of light colored feet.

 

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Guest Bigfoothunter

^^

 

Muscle mass - not height determines weight. Oddly 425 pounds equals about 190 kilos  525 pounds equals about 240 kilos.  Makes me thing an error in pounds or kilos was made. I would have to look for consistency to know if its an error or not - and its not an issue if one or the other is not supported by the total evidence.

Edited by Bigfoothunter
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^^^^

 

Makes more sense and Dr. S seems to smart to propose a weight so light. Maybe there is more in the context of what he said that would explain that which I do not have.    I'll bet your guess is about right.

 

On the Mass issue:  Bob Gimlin on many occasions have talked about how 'Massive' Patty was.  To pull off this 'massive' look, it would take a lot of mass of something.  Real Mass seems like a good possibility.  Padding would be required in a big way for a fake suit. I doubt that look could be pulled off with Bob Heironimus shoulder pads.  Too bad for him he never told about the suit being padded.

 

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MODERATOR

^^

 

The weight of 190 to 240lbs was given by Esteban Sarmiento from what I gathered. How he reached that conclusion is puzzling to me still. As a primate expert - he must know that a 5.5' tall Gorilla has weighed as much as 776 pounds - the depth of the track-way supports the heavier weight. Those are the facts as we find them.

 

To merely look at the subject in the film and say it only weighs 190 to 240lbs is like looking at a image of a large box and merely guessing if it contains something made of light plastic or if its made of heavy iron.

 

Would it be a correct guess to say Dr. Sarmiento must not have done any reading up on the PGF and the depth of the tracks before coming up with a weight of 190-240lbs? 

Apparently he must not have known anything about Bob Gimlin weighing about 165-170lbs and leaving little impression with his own footprints because I'm not sure how Dr. Sarmiento could have thought only an extra 20 - 70 lbs. could make impressions 5-6 times deeper than Bob G. 

 

Even if Bob G. had weighed 220lbs. he still wouldn't have made footprints much deeper than he actually did.

Edited by OkieFoot
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^^^

 

More troubling to me is the idea he states (wherever the Wiki quote comes from) the Feet are light and the hands are dark. He seems to use this as the basis for being suspect.  Yet, this seems like the easiest thing to explain from the soil. 

Put another way, why would a suit maker make a suit and leave the bottom of the feet unpainted or a different color than the hands.  If it is a suit and Dr. S thinks this is a big deal, we are to think this happened by design.  That is, the suit maker controls what color the bottoms of the feet are.

 

It should be obvious walking on the soil might lighten the feet the same color as the soil.  If this is a deal breaker for Dr. S it seems the weakest issue.

 

This misunderstanding makes me think when these experts are consulted for TV they may only put in 5 minutes worth of viewing of the film.  We might be lead to think they may have studied these various issues for a few hours/ days/ weeks and then come up with some conclusions.  This may not be the case.   Having seen him on some of these various Bigfoot shows I have to think he has a great working knowledge of the PGF.

 

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Guest Crowlogic

Patty does not have a double ball foot.   So which is real?   Double ball feet or Patty feet.  They both can't be real but they both can be fake.

 

BH%20OVEFLAY_zpseyvrimua.jpg

 

ouch_to_believers_zpsarcessep.jpg

Edited by Crowlogic
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Guest Bigfoothunter

^^

 

You do know do you not that not all human feet look the same either. Once again you are supposing something that you have no knowledge about. It's just another 'diaper-butt' claim IMO.

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^^^

 

More troubling to me is the idea he states (wherever the Wiki quote comes from) the Feet are light and the hands are dark. He seems to use this as the basis for being suspect.  Yet, this seems like the easiest thing to explain from the soil. 

Put another way, why would a suit maker make a suit and leave the bottom of the feet unpainted or a different color than the hands.  If it is a suit and Dr. S thinks this is a big deal, we are to think this happened by design.  That is, the suit maker controls what color the bottoms of the feet are.

 

It should be obvious walking on the soil might lighten the feet the same color as the soil.  If this is a deal breaker for Dr. S it seems the weakest issue.

 

This misunderstanding makes me think when these experts are consulted for TV they may only put in 5 minutes worth of viewing of the film.  We might be lead to think they may have studied these various issues for a few hours/ days/ weeks and then come up with some conclusions.  This may not be the case.   Having seen him on some of these various Bigfoot shows I have to think he has a great working knowledge of the PGF.

 

Backdoc

 

Good point. I guess we're to think we had a person(s) making this suit that was light years ahead of it's time but they flat forgot to make sure the palms on the hands and the bottom of the feet were the same color.   ;) 

 

If I'm remembering Dr. Sarmiento correctly, he was on a TV show several years ago where he and another man got an athlete and hooked him up with electrodes to create a moving computer image in an attempt to see if they could duplicate Patty's walk.

I think their attempt failed.   

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Scarecrow,

 

Thanks for link.

 

Pat...

 

ps  It has always looked to me like she has her hands slightly cupped, a natural position, which would not catch the light quite as much as the flat open surface of her foot, thus the over exposure isn't as strong on her hands as it is on her feet.

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Guest Crowlogic

^^

 

You do know do you not that not all human feet look the same either. Once again you are supposing something that you have no knowledge about. It's just another 'diaper-butt' claim IMO.

Oh gee I didn't know that.  So does this mean some humans have a double ball foot or some bigfoot have 14 toes and triple ball feet.  Sorry but no cigar.  If anything there are small numbers of bigfoot and what are the odds of finding such different feet in such close proximity in location and time?  Then there is the most famous double ball feet belonging to Ray Wallace stompers.  Roger at least was leaning on known biped biology.

 

An excellent video worth watching.

 

Edited by Crowlogic
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JustCurious

I think what Dr. Sarmiento is saying is that he doesn't believe it's an ape of the chimp, gorilla or orangutan variety (ie., pongid).  He's saying there is no grasping big toe, etc. that an animal variety ape would have.  What he doesn't come right out and say clearly is that he thinks it's more human, but I think it's somewhat inferred when he says that if bigfoot exists, it's our closest relative.  Being the smart scientist that he is, without a body to study and classify, he can't say what is in the PGF film.  Thus it follows that he'd guesstimate the weight based on human rather than ape.  It still doesn't explain how he came up with the specific numbers he did, but it has something to do with water weight/volume. 

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