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Guest Crowlogic

Ok Read This And Go Make Your Patty Suits!

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Guest Crowlogic

A successful PGF/Patty suit is a very simple thing.  All it has to do is look convincingly enough like the PGF to make an observer need to scrutinize it to see the differences, if any.  It needs to be made from materials existing in 1967.  It can't have excuses of lighting and film vs digital vs video tape as an arguing point.  Excuses of exact capture devices, lighting and location are hollow.  We can very easily look at real film, real video, real photos of existing animals in varying conditions to determine how effective any recreation is.  I've yet to see a film (color or black and white) that I couldn't tell a real gorilla from a fake one and a real gorilla always looks like a real gorilla regardless.  Same is true for video tape and digital.  When something "is" something it looks pretty much identifiable and of itself no matter the conditions.

 

I'm going to go out on a stout limb here and say nobody will or can make such a suit without excuses.  And if you need to make an excuse then you haven't truly nailed what is often deemed to be a suit in the Patterson Gimlin Film. 

 

Mr. Winston said it can be done for $200, chump change here in the 21st century

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Serohs

Subscribed!

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Guest

Hey $200 aint chump change i only make $500 a week crow ;)

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Backdoc

Skeptics will go to the default position Patty is not real until proven to them.  Only a body will convince them.  Fine.   But it should equally be OK for those who believe in Patty to say nearly the same thing? Until I see a suit, I will believe.  A suit should be easier to come up with than a Bigfoot Body.

 

Skeptic Position:  I will not believe until I see a body.  Skeptic say that is reasonable and scientific

Believer Position:  I will not think Patty is a man in a suit until I see the suit.  Skeptic thinks that is crazy and not good science to test the skeptics actual theory.

 

 

Backdoc

Edited by Backdoc

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Drew

I have had footers say " I will not believe Patty is fake, until I see that Bigfoot is completely different than Patty."

 

I've also had them say "Even if a Bigfoot is killed and completely different from Patty , then hey, two species."

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kitakaze

I like Bill and respect his efforts, and I know he'd more than welcome the opportunity to make a rebuttal to the following...

 

Academy Award winning FX master Chris Walas, former PGF believer who became a skeptic after examining the film on the first BFF had this to say on Facebook recently (not from personal correspondence)...

I've read some of Mr. Munns observations and he seems to make statements about why it can't be a suit based on supposition and pseudoscience as well as a limited experience in making and wearing suits. But he is saying exactly what the believers want to hear, so somehow his words overwhelm the vastly more experienced statements of more qualified individuals. It's unfortunate that the believers have such a need to hold the PGF up as the Holy Grail of bigfootery as it really does get in the way of more honest research.

 

Mr. Munns also makes a rather large assumption that the PGF suit had to be made of fake fur. There were countless techniques for creating fur suits from the teens onward and many old gorilla suits were still floating around in the sixties, leftovers from the nightclub scene of the forties and fifties. Many of these May not have looked much like real gorillas, but they certainly had quality fur or hide work. The fur on my first gorilla suit was as stiff as it could be and still be considered cloth, but it did not inhibit movement at all.

 

This is Chris Walas' first gorilla suit, made when he was 23 years old, for $200...

 

1924957_545526218878827_993967481_n.jpg

 

1962293_545525988878850_646863590_o.jpg

 

1618190_545526055545510_321938703_o.jpg

 

988403_545526315545484_1502022851_n.jpg

 

23 years old, $200. Holy cow.

 

walas-fly.jpg

Edited by kitakaze
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Cotter

^Any vids of it walking?
 

And the first paragraph has no substance.  

 

The second well, I would like to hear Bill's response to why it did have to be furcloth.

But from the dozens of variations of the stories you hear about the suit, this is the first time I heard of the variation that he collected various gorilla jackets from nightclubs and used em.

 

Maybe he used wet gorilla hide?  

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kitakaze

I agree, Cotter, seeing Walas' first ape suit in motion would be ideal, even so, $200 and 23 years old... wow.

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Cotter

^Agreed, good suit for the age of the guy and the cost.  But I would question if it only cost him 200 bux, did he get some of the stuff for free.

At 23, was this guy already trained and in the business?

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salubrious
Moderator

One thing that has been a problem in all the suits I have seen is the location of the head. (The gorilla costume above looks fun, but it only suggests a gorilla, put a real gorilla beside it and there are all sorts of problems.)

 

It does not look like a BF; arms are too short, head is too large and too much atop the shoulders. For  BF, the head should seem forward and lower with obviously powerful shoulder muscles bunched up behind the neck This causes the head to look quite small in a forward or rear profile. This is a quality I have yet to see in a BF costume.

 

Back when I was in high school a friend of mine had a furry vest made out of some kind of synthetic. It was pretty convincing as fur though. Otherwise the material was woven and pretty flexible. I would start with that rather than a raw skin.

 

I knew an audiophool once that thought that if musicians held instruments in their hands, that the LP should be supported by flesh as well during playback. So he went to the stockyard and bought himself a raw pigskin, from which he cut 12" diameter 'platter pads' for his turntable. They made the backside of the LP greasy... He had to keep the platter pads in a mayonnaise jar in his refrigerator. That would work for a few days until the flesh-eating bacteria got after it and he had to toss it (I never heard if he thought they made the record sound any better). When the guys at the stockyard (who have a pretty creepy job to start with) found out what he doing with the raw pigskin, they stopped selling to him as they got totally creeped out. I know this story has some relevance here :)

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kitakaze

Bigsweats23.jpg

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Bill

Chris Walas is certainly entitled to his opinions, even about my work, but until I see a rebuttal to the scientific papers, I won't be impressed by his remarks.

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Backdoc

Kit,

 

Could you please share the Chris Walas report link so I can review his 'Munns Report'.  I won't ask for his Patty suit since he did not try to build one.  Please note, while seeing things he has made for movies will be interesting, we need to stay on the matter at hand. That is, his actual analysis report or 'work product' video so we may review his evidence and conclusions.  Thanks.

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