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Explorer

Panic Attack In The Woods Is Not Evidence Of Bf Presence

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Cotter

If scent marking isn't an ape characteristic then why do redneck men pee in their own yards rather than going back into the house to use the restroom? If bigfoot exists why would he not do the same? I imagine a bigfoot would have some stout pheromones.

 

I do it to save water.

 

Oh - edit- and because I can!

Edited by Cotter

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DWA

Because I can too.  Man, if you have never peed in your backyard, it is just not, in any significant way, *your* property.  All's I can say.

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Explorer

Guys and Gals, let us stay on topic and not pee all over the place.

I was looking for a scientific paper that could shine some light on the claim that infrasound could cause a panic attack on humans.

I found a good paper by Dr. Jurgen Altmann titled “Acoustic Weapons—A Prospective Assessment: Sources, Propagation, and Effects of Strong Sound†published in 1999 by Cornell University.

The paper is available in PDF at link below:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpacs.einaudi.cornell.edu%2Fsystem%2Ffiles%2Foccasional-paper22.pdf&ei=ht9TVOKYF82MyATp9oCABw&usg=AFQjCNF271TYEl0HUTTc58u_Ze5M_KVTUQ&bvm=bv.78677474,d.aWw

While the paper covers the full range of acoustic frequencies, the author does reach some conclusions on what was known about infrasound back in 1999.

One of the tables in his paper shows many sources of natural infrasound, their frequencies and sound pressure level (see attached image). However, he points out that there is no evidence or published scientific studies showing that infrasound causes panic or negative effects on humans.

I extracted 3 of his key conclusions regarding infrasound:

• On the Effects of Low-Frequency Sound on Humans: In the 1960s and 1970s there was a wave of articles ascribing exaggerated effects to infrasound, not only in the general press. Much of this was anecdotal. In some cases, effects observed in one laboratory could not be reproduced in another, e.g., concerning the evocation of nystagmus (involuntary eye movements) by infrasound. One reason may be production of harmonics in test systems. Harmonics need to be controlled carefully, otherwise—because the sensitivity increases rapidly with frequency—they could influence the results.

• Contrary to several articles in the defense press, high-power infrasound has no profound effect on humans. The pain threshold is higher than in the audio range, and there is no hard evidence for the alleged effects on inner organs, on the vestibular system, for vomiting, or uncontrolled defecation up to levels of 170 dB or more.

• On the idea of Infrasound Beam from a Directed Source: The first obstacle is diffraction. Waves emitted from a source immediately diverge spherically if the wavelength is larger than the source; i.e., the power is spread over an area increasing with distance, and consequently the intensity and sound pressure decrease with distance. For source sizes on the order of one meter, this holds for frequencies below a few hundred Hertz. "Beams of infrasound" have no credibility. But even at higher frequencies with shorter wavelengths, where focusing or a beam of constant width can be achieved up to a certain distance, eventually spherical spreading will take over as well.

On the opposite side of the debate is Coonbo, who claims to have done research on infrasound for the US Government and believes that BF is emitting them and causing panic attack like symptoms. He discusses this in a Moneky Chasers Forum back in 2002 (see link below).

Back then, Coonbo also raised the pheromones alternative.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/99679/thread/1016845917/Panic+Attacks+and+Bogus+Logic

Some of these topics get repeated over the years (obviously because we have no answers and no resolution to the mystery).

post-18859-0-73120200-1414786027_thumb.j

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jayjeti

One of the tables in his paper shows many sources of natural infrasound, their frequencies and sound pressure level (see attached image). However, he points out that there is no evidence or published scientific studies showing that infrasound causes panic or negative effects on humans.

• Contrary to several articles in the defense press, high-power infrasound has no profound effect on humans. 

 

 

 

So, then are zoologists wrong when they say Tigers use infrasound to immobilize their prey, and also dolphins and whales stun fish with it?  Whale blasts called "gunshots" have been observed blasting fish apart.

Edited by jayjeti

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jayjeti
Explorer,
 
You should have copied more from the same PDF file you quoted from.  It notes some effects of infrasound.  It states, "Beyond hearing, some disturbance in balance, and intolerable sensations, mainly in the chest, can occur." 

 

Supposed symptoms from infrasound varies with individuals, irritability or fear are just some symptoms people claim.  Some claim to feel pressure on their chest and internal organs.  I've heard two different people ascribe a tightness in their chest as a result of BF induced infrasound.  Your PDF article you linked to states, " intolerable sensations, mainly in the chest, can occur."  

 

Here is a study done on the effects of infrasound produced by wind turbines. The study notes how many studies fail to understand it can effect people differently.

 

 "Many studies fail to take into account the fact that some people are more sensitive than others to the sensory impact. Some are significantly affected by the pulsating sound pressure while others are not affected by it in a significant way. . . . .  The rhythmic, pumping infrasound from wind turbines stimulates inner ear sensory functions [7, 8]. Such sensory stimulation can occur in people with sensory hypersensitivity . . . causing symptoms such as unsteadiness, dizziness, headache, difficulty concentrating, visual disturbances, and more [9].  The problems arise even if the noise level is relatively low, since infrasound constantly affects . . . the pressure in the inner ear via the vestibular organs. The pulsing sound pressure from wind turbines indirectly activates the autonomic nervous system, causing increased secretion of adrenaline with consequent stress effects, risk of panic disorder, high blood pressure and heart attacks for people with increased sensory sensitivity."

 

http://PDF] “Infrasound from wind turbines: An overlooked health    

 

The PDF file you copied from makes this statement:  

 

"• On the Effects of Low-Frequency Sound on Humans: In the 1960s and 1970s there was a wave of articles ascribing exaggerated effects to infrasound, not only in the general press. Much of this was anecdotal. In some cases, effects observed in one laboratory could not be reproduced in another."

 

But as the article I quoted from states, "Many studies fail to take into account the fact that some people are more sensitive than others to the sensory impact. Some are significantly affected by the pulsating sound pressure while others are not affected by it in a significant way."

 

So, when your article states that one study shows effects on people, then another study fails to reproduce those same effects, they are failing to account for infrasound effecting different people differently.

 

You make this statement about naturally occurring infrasound.  "One of the tables in his paper shows many sources of natural infrasound, their frequencies and sound pressure level (see attached image). However, he points out that there is no evidence or published scientific studies showing that infrasound causes panic or negative effects on humans."

 

But naturally occurring infrasound might be different than what is produced artificially, say from a BF or other sources.

 

The following study notes effects on humans from naturally occurring atmospheric infrasound.

 

"Slight atmospheric pressure oscillations (APO) in the extra-low-frequency range below 0.1 Hz, which frequently occur naturally, can influence human mental activity. This phenomenon has been observed in experiments with a group of 12 healthy volunteers exposed to experimentally created APO with amplitudes 30–50 Pa in the frequency band 0.011–0.17 Hz. Exposure of the subjects to APO for 15–30 min caused significant changes in attention and short-term memory functions, performance rate, and mental processing flexibility."

 

http://The pain threshold is higher than in the audio range, and there is no hard evidence for the alleged effects on inner organs, on the vestibular system, for vomiting, or uncontrolled defecation up to levels of 170 dB or more.

 

This study found a relation between natural occurring infrasound in thunderstorms and changes in human behavior, it states, "The results suggest that a correlation may exist between the presence of infrasonic disturbances in the Chicago area and changes in selected human behavior."

 

http://scitation.aip.org/content/asa/journal/jasa/44/5/10.1121/1.1911286

 

A study of weaponized infrasound showed significant effects on the performance of rhesus monkeys.

 

http://multi-science.metapress.com/content/a05211543226h835/

 

Other parts of the pdf file you copied from notes effects from infrasound.  The following is just a small sampling from table 1 on p. 4 of the pdf file.

 

May affect labyrinths, vertigo, imbalance, etc.; resonances in inner organs, e.g., heart, with effects up to death. Intolerable sensations, imcompacitation, disorientation, nausia, vomiting, bowel spasms, etc.

 

 

file:///C:/Users/Daniel/Downloads/occasional-paper22%20(2).pdf

 

Claims from people who have experienced BF infrasound can differ depending on the individual.  I've heard of two cases of people passing out, one whom I personally spoke to.  The person walking next to him heard a buzzing noise in his ears at the time he passed out.  It effected two individuals walking side by side differently.  This same person, on that same day, walked back down that trail on the way back and passed out at the same location again.  The person walking with him heard the buzzing noise again at that location.

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Guest

@cotter, jayjeti

Yup, more than a few studies on wind turbines. There is also a study from the 70s called the Ghost and the Machine not be confused with the nf book by the same or the awesome Manga series Ghost and the Shell which was the basis for even better anime movie and great video game! The study is interesting if your into ghosts and spirits.

As far as everybody having panic attacks it's obviously common enough to be listed as a disorder aptly named, wait for it.........Panic Disorder, I know, crazy, right?

My point is Cotter when you throw in severe storms and avalanches than you have at least a half dozen known explanations why would you consider an unknown? In the words of my good Vulcan friend "that is illogical."

Now I've used up one of my two allowable posts for today to do your homework, I am not happy about this, especially since I had to wait 24 hours to reply to you -_-

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David NC
BFF Donor

JasonW no avalanche and no thunderstorm = back to another explanation or unknown. Funny thing the definition of panic in Webster's new world medical dictionary 3rd edition is: " A sudden strong feeling of fear that prevents reasonable thought or action. The word comes from the Greek woodland god Pan, who was a frightening figure-part human, part goat- and whose pet caprice (favorite thing to do) was to terrify people who ventured into rural areas". So the oldest definition of panic came from being scared in rural areas by a half human, half beast figure. Mmmmm that is interesting. Panic attacks do happen to a lot of people and tend to happen ongoing and possibly often if a person has/develops this disorder. No one here has stated that everyone that has a panic attack is caused by a Sasquatch. These feelings of panic, uncontrollable fear and or dread are reported by too many people that get the feelings when they are in what they knew or now know to be an active Sasquatch area.

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Guest

David, avalanche and severe weather, were only 2 of a half dozen "logical" explanations that I mentioned in my first post and I forgot to add rivers and waterfalls. So to recap, going from most plausible to unlikely: Wind over mountains, wind through trees, rivers, waterfalls, seismic activity, mining equipment, diesel engine, severe weather, avalanche, large cats.

Of course since "The Rockstar" has been seen shopping for a 3 bedroom 2 bath double car garage slice of suburban Chicago, according to a post on this forum, than by definition, Squatchy areas = everywhere that one could experience, fear, dread and panic, cause unknown, than it must be Bigfoot using one of his (no offence Patty) many talents on unsuspecting humans.

Silly me, what was I thinking to suggest otherwise?

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Divergent1

In order to have an enjoyable conversation as a skeptic here, it helps if you assume the "what if" and just go with the pro stance. I've gotten a lot out of this forum in a short amount of time by doing that because you end up researching all of these other topics as a benefit. At least that's how I see it, if it frustrates you then why bother? Don't take yourself so seriously that you forget to have fun with it.

Edited by Divergent1
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DWA

^^^Pretty much that.  If you aren't actively playing with this, rather than coming here to Lecture Wrong People, how are you getting any entertainment out of it (other than the kind that, well, makes some of us kind of wonder)...?

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Explorer

JayJeti,

I read thru the links you sent and did not see any claims that infrasound causes panic attacks or terror on humans. The articles do indicate some effect, but they appear to be minor and not something that the US government will weaponize to induce terror on enemies. You also quote from Table 1 of the paper from Dr. Altmann, but do not point out that the title of the table is: “Selected examples of alleged properties, effects, and targets of acoustic weapons from the available literatureâ€. The author’s conclusion does not support the alleged claims.

I agree that the literature and common sense says that every person is different and will have different reactions to infrasound. So maybe some people will react with panic and studies have yet to find that out or cannot replicate results with consistency.

Another potential reason for a lack of published studies tying panic attacks with infrasound could be that these studies are classified by the military and the research results are secret. This is what Tim Coonbo claimed in the link I sent.

JasonW,

I don’t agree with your conclusion that because there are natural infrasounds all around us that that is the simplest explanation for panic attacks in the woods. Again, I have not seen any scientific article proposing that natural (or artificial) infrasound causes sudden panic attacks. I would think the simplest explanation would be what JiggyPotamus suggested, that it is internally generated by your mind and not caused by external factors, triggered by some random thought.

Folks,

The original post was about sudden panic attacks in the woods, when no BF is seen and that some folks attribute them to BF if the area is squatchy. Based on Harpur’s article, these type of panic attacks may occur all over the world (and not only in squatchy areas) and are rare.

If BF is present and people panic, what causes the panic is a different question/issue. BF sending infrasound waves, pheromones, psychic signals, or just being plain scary are many of the possible explanations for panic/terror that I have read (but all speculation). On the other hand, on many of the reports that I have read from BFRO’s database on close encounters with BF, panic does not occur. In most cases, an unknown creature is seen for a few seconds and then some fear kicks in at the realization of the strange encounter (but not panic). We need to separate a sense of fear/anxiety from a panic attack that makes us run for our life away from a particular location.


 

Edited by Explorer

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jayjeti

JayJeti,

I read thru the links you sent and did not see any claims that infrasound causes panic attacks or terror on humans. 

 

If you read it again the study I quoted from on infrasound produced by wind turbines made this statement, " The pulsing sound pressure from wind turbines indirectly activates the autonomic nervous system, causing increased secretion of adrenaline with consequent stress effects, risk of panic disorder, high blood pressure and heart attacks for people with increased sensory sensitivity."

 

So, I did present something related to panic attack.  Moreover, what many report from being hit with BF infrasound is more in the way of heavy stress and depression and a general uneasiness and irritableness or they have physical symptoms in their bodies.  Its affects differ on individuals and its a misnomer to throw it all into one category called "panic attack."  That study noted that people have different sensitivities to infrasound and react differently.  As I noted one comment you quoted from the pdf file said that effects found in one lab study could not be reproduced in another lab study, the implication being that infrasound effects could not be reliably confirmed, but I quoted a study that said many studies failed to account for infrasound affecting people differently.  

 

 

 You also quote from Table 1 of the paper from Dr. Altmann, but do not point out that the title of the table is: “Selected examples of alleged properties, effects, and targets of acoustic weapons from the available literatureâ€. The author’s conclusion does not support the alleged claims.

 

 

 

You were selective in only noting the conclusions of one person and not noting the findings of other's research in the pdf file, and by doing so what you wrote sounded as if no studies found any adverse effects on humans from infrasound.  

 

You originally wrote this:

 

"One of the tables in his paper shows many sources of natural infrasound, their frequencies and sound pressure level (see attached image). However, he points out that there is no evidence or published scientific studies showing that infrasound causes panic or negative effects on humans."

 

That sounds like no one has ever produced a single study that shows infrasound had any negative effect on humans when the pdf file you were using as your one source shows otherwise itself.  Although it is hard to tell from that statement if it is only a reference to naturally occurring infrasound?  The main issue is artificially produced infrasound, not what occurs in nature.  Moreover, I included links to some studies that showed negative effects on humans from naturally occurring infrasound.  It would have been good if you would have provided the page numbers for the sources you used in that long pdf file to check your references.

Edited by jayjeti

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