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Thoughts About Munns' Book - " When Roger Met Patty " (2)


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To add..here is Patty's standing height according to the foot ruler. If Patty's foot was 14.5" then her standing height was 6' 4", providing I scaled frames 61 and 352 correctly. Note how the radius (forearm) is foreshortened in frame 61, which would be expected from that camera angle.

 

armrulerhgt_zps394498ba.png

 

If the foot ruler can be trusted, then we can work backwards to determine how far away Patty was from the camera at frame 352 for a 25mm lens = ~124 feet.

Edited by Gigantofootecus
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To add..other biometrics to measure include: Patty's shoulder to wrist = 28" using the foot ruler. I am the same height as Patty and my shoulder to wrist is 22". But the most important is the elbow. Hand extensions are 1 thing but there are no elbow extensions. If Patty's elbow went beyond Bob H's unforeshortened maximum then he is done. It would not be physically possible for him to have been Patty. My humerus (upper arm) bone measures to 11". Patty's humerus, as per the above graphic, measures to 15". An actor's elbows can not be extended out 25% the length of the humerus. The placement of the elbow also confirms that hand extensions were not used and Patty's entire arms were ~25% longer than the average bloke's. However, it's the elbows that disqualify Bob H and probably most of the population from being Patty. The head and legs too, but I digress.

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Gigantofootecus, couldn't that same method of projecting the PGF subject on a wall work to verify the exact height and dimensions of Patty?  

 

I don't believe it will ever be possible to verify the exact height of Patty to the inch.  

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Guest pinkmoon67

We might have been in the same class, pinkmoon... :drinks:

I had a cross eyed teacher the school fired her she couldn't control her pupils.

I don't believe it will ever be possible to verify the exact height of Patty to the inch.

not to the inch but maybe just accurate enough to prove it couldn't be old Bob in that suit.

A question for you all on this fine sunny morning Kit who claims to have seen the patty suit (but can't supply a photo of it)has he ever mentioned what material it was made out of.

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Guest Bigfoothunter

not to the inch but maybe just accurate enough to prove it couldn't be old Bob in that suit.

 

The exact height of Patty would be interesting to know, but its not needed to discredit Heironimus.

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Backdoc
BFF Donor

^^^

 

Exactly. 

 

On Heironimus, the only thing needed to prove Bob Heironimus was not the man in the suit is Bob Heironimus' mouth.

 

Backdoc

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Bill's book wasn't written as a dissertation to be defended. It was his opinion based on his extended research and expertise in many areas related to the PGF. Since he didn't publish all his methodology in the book you need to ask him personally how he measured the head. And keep in mind that measurements from the film will include distortion from various sources. You must take any head model with a grain of salt unless you can rationalize all the parameters used to construct the model. Bill knows the difference between his opinion and proof. Disagree with his findings but not just because you're a skeptic.

 

And what do you make of Bob H's elbow extensions Drew? When Patty and Bob are scaled to the exact same height their limb proportions don't match up. Whattup widdat? :popcorn:

 

You say skeptics don't like the results, but I don't know the results. 

The skeptics just don't like the results.

 

I want to know what the head dimension he measured on Patty is.  

 

I think it's quite probable, that the vectors are not properly placed at the shoulder joint.

Edited by Drew
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A question for you all on this fine sunny morning Kit who claims to have seen the patty suit (but can't supply a photo of it)has he ever mentioned what material it was made out of.

 

Bull excrement. :gaming:

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You say skeptics don't like the results, but I don't know the results. 

I want to know what the head dimension he measured on Patty is.  

 

I think it's quite probable, that the vectors are not properly placed at the shoulder joint.

 

Drew, it seems you are the only one I am talking to here. No one else seems interested in the way Bill measured the images. My comment was more for Squatchy because he seemed hell bent on refuting Bill's head model. Bill's "results" were that he could not wear the mask as he had measured and designed it. You are justified in asking how he designed the model. I would take any photogrammetric analysis with a grain of salt without it being accompanied with the methodology used. That's just good science.

 

As far as the placement of the shoulder joint goes, it doesn't matter if I located the top of the humerus bone exactly. As long as I was consistent in locating 2 markers on Patty, one "near" her shoulder joint and one "near" her elbow. If I correctly identified any 2 body markers on 2 different frames I can scale them to the same size for comparison.

 

My shoulder joint placement was identical to Bob H's, so you really can't complain about it.

 

BobPattyArmlength.png

Edited by Gigantofootecus
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This is a sort of open note to one and all regarding my work and questions about the head.  I know that there is a lot of process documentation that needs to be set up and published, and it's on my "Things to do" list, but the PGF simply isn't my singular priority at this point in time, so the things that need to be done will happen when I can get to them, but on a schedule I dictate. So if anyone feels that what I've released and published thus far doesn't satisfy them or answer all their questions, well then so be it.

 

There's a lot more work to do, and I aspire to do it, but I can't project a schedule of when anyone might expect it.

 

One of my priorities is to set up a public access to my research archives, but that's a rather ambitious endeavor and will take time. But once done, other researchers will be far better equipped to do their own research to expand beyond my own.

 

Bill

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In comparing the two pictures the bodies are in a different arrangement. The comparison appears account for only two dimensions. Pattys body is perpendicular to bobs. Do bobs elbows lie in the xy plane with his chest or do they extend outside of it. When your hands are in your pockets don't your elbows extend a bit behind your abdomen. Vectors In three dimensions are needed. Also what happens with the assumption of shoulder pads and or arm/hand extensions.

Maybe you've already done that I don't know. I've seen several pictures demonstrating the impossibility of bob or a human in the suit. On the skeptics forum I've seen pictures showing the opposite. Sorta like everything bigfoot I guess believe what you will.

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xspider1

Hand extensions are 1 thing but there are no elbow extensions. If Patty's elbow went beyond Bob H's unforeshortened maximum then he is done...

 

Well said.  The only other possibility would have been to disguise the full length of a mime's arm into the top part (or, humerus) of a costume arm and then add a fake lower arm extension and a fake hand.  With that scenario, the knees, ankles and other articulation points don't line up very well: )~

 

post-131-0-53658400-1427607809.jpg

 

Imo, this is closer to the skeletal proportion between a PGf star wannabe and the real deal:

 

post-131-0-78030400-1427607873.jpg

Edited by xspider1
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