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Wallace Stompers On Blue Mountain Road.


Guest Crowlogic

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Guest Crowlogic

Ray Wallace is Father Bigfoot like it or not.  The major slick magazines of the mid 60's ran bigfoot stories and one of them had a photo that was teeming with prints.  I'm amazed that this photo has never surfaced in all years.  It it read that there were 1000 prints on the site.  This must have been the oil drum tossing site where there were so many prints.  It was Ray Wallace's equipment where those tracks and story were attached.  In a sense Roger is Son of Father Bigfoot.  Rog and Ray were the ones who did the deeds that captured the imagination.  And still no bigfoot.  we had prints by the thousands and clear color film and then bam it all went silent once Rog made his fortune and maybe Ray lost interest but fact remains there were outstanding sightings and happenings that went nowhere then and are nowhere today.  Yet the faithful dismiss what is made obvious all these years later.

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BFF Donor

^^^

 

We are always told of some 'evidence' of something out there which naturally we are not allowed to see or examine.  Yet, we are told we should  just know it to be true. 

 That is supposed to be enough and I am just supposed to accept it and also trust the meaning you are choosing to attach to it.

 

BD

Edited by Backdoc
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Guest Bigfoothunter

 I'm done arguing with footers but I'm not done raising questions for rational observers to consider.  I don't believe I've presented any irrational arguments .  My illustrations using the existing photo evidence support my position.

 

 

Crowlogic:  "I believe you are posting different photos as if it's all the same photo."

 

So you thought it rational to make the above statement without checking the photos for matching landmarks first.

15inch%20right%20foot%206x%20Green_Dahin

 

 

Crowlogic:  "How is it that Ray Wallace just happened to perfectly craft a replica of not one but two stompers that match those prints"

 

So you rationally decided that these carvings matched the ground prints on BCM.

0001b_%20copy%20invert_zpsluvd5f5m.jpg

 

 

Crowlogic:  "The fact remains is that all of your toe talk does not negate the truly telling detail of the heel split line and the stomper that made it."

 

So you find it rational to claim some loose debris in the base of the track was representative of the heel creek while ignoring the gross miss-match of the toe-line between the carving and the ground prints.

c41a8b6f-9e1a-4ba8-9a9f-0d5156a5d6e5_zps

 

 

Crowlogic:   "So what about the 40 year old memories of bigfooters seeing one say in 1970?  Are they somehow granted special bigfooter dispensation?"

 

The above was a response to this statement I had made:  "What evidence do you have that Green and Dahinden - who by the way wrote the size of the tracks down for the record at the time they were there examining the tracks - were relying on a 40+ year old memory??  What did you actually do to justify saying those men were wrong??"

 

So you found it rational to use the above statement to show that Green and Dahinden's on-site measurements may be the result of a faulty 40 year old memory.  

 

 

Crowlogic:  "Why no,  and I'll tell you why.  Nothing a skeptic can say or do can be any more ridiculous than believing in bigfoot."

 

 

So you find someone saying this 9" Wallace carving seen below is a match for a 13" ground print was rational.

 

wallace%209inch%20carving_zpsw3lixe2g.jp 40_BCM_15_and_13_tracks_%20JG_RD%203_zps

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Moderator

 

 

Was this supposed cracked heel line present in all of the right side footprints?

 

No.

 

The smallest of clods below can be seen through a fine dusting of the right foot track and there is no sign of a line that I can see. I have not looked at it from across the room to see if it will appear.   :)

2f748c54-14af-4754-98b4-94ef5bcf6d54_zps

 

 

I had a suspicion that "No" was going to be the answer to my question. This brings up a number of questions in my mind. (I have to admit I'm not overly knowledgeable about Ray Wallace and and his wooden stompers in the pictures.) 

 

1. If the right side tracks were faked using a Wallace stomper with a crack line in the heel, why didn't all of the right side tracks show this crack line?  If someone was going to fake some tracks, why would they use some other fake foot for several tracks, then switch to a wooden stomper with a crack line in the heel for just one track and then switch back to the first fake foot? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

How many pairs of wooden feet did Ray Wallace actually have? I've only seen the pair being held up in the pictures.

 

2. Why would somebody that's going to go to the trouble of faking some Bigfoot tracks use a wooden foot with a crack line in the heel? That would be a dead giveaway that it's a fake track. That would be like somebody putting on a fur suit to pull a hoax and then wearing a wrist watch on the outside of the suit. :)

 

3. When these BCM tracks were first discovered and then subsequently examined more closely, did these people notice a print with a cracked line in the heel? Was there a mention in any notes back then of a track with a cracked heel line in it?

 

4. BH, in your post #4, the photo showing the two tracks, with the red arrow and tape measure by the nearest track, I'm curious about the stride length between the two tracks. I wasn't sure if it's been said what the distance was between the tracks. I couldn't really tell if it was a long stride or not and wondered if it was within human possibilities and could have been matched by Ray Wallace, or some other person, while wearing a pair of rigid, inflexible wooden feet larger than the person's foot.   

 

 

I should update myself now that I started paying closer attention.

On the stride length: I saw a video showing the photo showing John Green measuring what it called the toe to heel pace with a yardstick and that it measured about 36 inches. It also said a 6' man would have a toe to heel pace of 20-22 inches.   

 

Something I learned from the video was there were 590 tracks counted, and of two different sizes; 15" and 13". One photo showed a 13" print and a 15" print pointed in different directions.

I'm having trouble believing someone faked nearly 600 tracks, and in two different sizes, and not all going the same direction.

Why fake 590 tracks? Why so many? How is faking 590 tracks any better than faking 400? Or 350?   

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Guest Crowlogic

 

 I'm done arguing with footers but I'm not done raising questions for rational observers to consider.  I don't believe I've presented any irrational arguments .  My illustrations using the existing photo evidence support my position.

 

 

Crowlogic:  "I believe you are posting different photos as if it's all the same photo."

 

So you thought it rational to make the above statement without checking the photos for matching landmarks first.

15inch%20right%20foot%206x%20Green_Dahin

 

 

Crowlogic:  "How is it that Ray Wallace just happened to perfectly craft a replica of not one but two stompers that match those prints"

 

So you rationally decided that these carvings matched the ground prints on BCM.

0001b_%20copy%20invert_zpsluvd5f5m.jpg

 

 

Crowlogic:  "The fact remains is that all of your toe talk does not negate the truly telling detail of the heel split line and the stomper that made it."

 

So you find it rational to claim some loose debris in the base of the track was representative of the heel creek while ignoring the gross miss-match of the toe-line between the carving and the ground prints.

c41a8b6f-9e1a-4ba8-9a9f-0d5156a5d6e5_zps

 

 

Crowlogic:   "So what about the 40 year old memories of bigfooters seeing one say in 1970?  Are they somehow granted special bigfooter dispensation?"

 

The above was a response to this statement I had made:  "What evidence do you have that Green and Dahinden - who by the way wrote the size of the tracks down for the record at the time they were there examining the tracks - were relying on a 40+ year old memory??  What did you actually do to justify saying those men were wrong??"

 

So you found it rational to use the above statement to show that Green and Dahinden's on-site measurements may be the result of a faulty 40 year old memory.  

 

 

Crowlogic:  "Why no,  and I'll tell you why.  Nothing a skeptic can say or do can be any more ridiculous than believing in bigfoot."

 

 

So you find someone saying this 9" Wallace carving seen below is a match for a 13" ground print was rational.

 

wallace%209inch%20carving_zpsw3lixe2g.jp 40_BCM_15_and_13_tracks_%20JG_RD%203_zps

 

The fact remains judging from your offerings your woo intoxication is beyond rational and reasonable.  I am not interested in woo addled  photo manipulations and fantasies.

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Guest Bigfoothunter

On the stride length: I saw a video showing the photo showing John Green measuring what it called the toe to heel pace with a yardstick and that it measured about 36 inches. It also said a 6' man would have a toe to heel pace of 20-22 inches.   

 

 

Here is a photo showing what you described.  ( Heel to toe pace definition )

 

002%2029_BCM_Green_trackway__zpsjxxccima

 

 

Here is the heel to heel measurement.  ( stride length definition )

001%2029_BCM_Green_trackway__zpsunrraxdz

 

 

 

Something I learned from the video was there were 590 tracks counted, and of two different sizes; 15" and 13". One photo showed a 13" print and a 15" print pointed in different directions.  I'm having trouble believing someone faked nearly 600 tracks, and in two different sizes, and not all going the same direction.

 

Why fake 590 tracks? Why so many? How is faking 590 tracks any better than faking 400? Or 350?

  

There were over 1000 combined tracks reported. They were said to of gone into the bush - up and down inclines - and back onto the road at least a couple of times. The track-way was said to cover a couple of miles in all toll. The tracks came in the dark. Clear toe movement was mentioned by several witnesses in Green's group. By the time Green arrived later that evening - the road crew had managed to preserve about 60% of the prints.

On the stride length: I saw a video showing the photo showing John Green measuring what it called the toe to heel pace with a yardstick and that it measured about 36 inches. It also said a 6' man would have a toe to heel pace of 20-22 inches.   

 

 

Here is a photo showing what you described.  ( Heel to toe pace definition )

 

002%2029_BCM_Green_trackway__zpsjxxccima

 

 

Here is the heel to heel measurement.  ( stride length definition )

001%2029_BCM_Green_trackway__zpsunrraxdz

 

 

 

Snomething I leared from the video was there were 590 tracks counted, and%

The fact remains judging from your offerings your woo intoxication is beyond rational and reasonable.  I am not interested in woo addled  photo manipulations and fantasies

 

 

 

It's never as much fun to discuss when the evidence bar has been raised out of one's reach.      :)

Edited by Bigfoothunter
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Guest Bigfoothunter

^^

 

Another excellent rebuttal, but it lacks the infamous sticking out of the tongue.

 

Should we lower the bar?

 

Example:

Look .... the image below when seen in low-res and further away looks like the famous landmark  'Stonehenge'.

stonehenge_zpsurhggfoh.jpg

stonehenge2_zpsjw4rmk5a.jpg

 

But when magnified from a clearer image - it's not!

no-line%202_zpsp0s6b3lf.png

Edited by Bigfoothunter
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Guest Crowlogic

^^^Still pathetic^^^^    Now then that said here is one of your photos from this very page.  On the photo is Mr John Green himself measuring Wallace stomper tracks (OK they're bigfoot tracks if it'll make you happy) and John is actually squatting on top of something that's been embossed onto the roadway.  There is a red arrow pointing to the detail in question.  You have maintained that the very thing Mr Green is squatting in is not present on BMC yet there is is right next to the Wallace....... opps I mean genuine bigfoot print.  In your own words can you describe what John is squatting on and what the red arrow is pointing to?

 

001%2029_BCM_Green_trackway__zpsujoag5hh

Edited by Crowlogic
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Guest Bigfoothunter

 In your own words can you describe what John is squatting on and what the red arrow is pointing to?

 

Looks like a 2D image of Green squatting down over the ground. It also looks like part of the heavy equipment tire imprinted and perhaps has been lost due to the lack of soil depth at the roads edge. I'll see if I can examine some more images and maybe find a better example before jumping to clusions. Either way .... neither are a crisp as those ground impressions.

Edited by Bigfoothunter
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Guest Bigfoothunter

Not random pebbles...

Bigwallaceline4.jpg

 

I agree that it could possibly appear like a line and is why I asked for a better scan of that image as there didn't appear to be a line made up of random pebbles in two other lo-res views you used to make a crack line claim, but better images said differently.

 

So once again you are seemingly still pushing a claim based on a pooor quality view of the evidence. That approach should have taught you better, but accuracy doesn't appear to be a big priority with you. Fow instance - like when you were claiming there were two consecutive footprints in the BCM trackway because you didn't see the left footprint between the two in the poor image you were viewing. Welcome to the world of MK Davis. Great technique to follow  - stick with it by all means.     :)

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kitakaze

A better view will not make that line disappear, will not change it from convex to concave. It's a big fat stick in the BH BCM cavalcade of comedy.

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Guest Crowlogic

 

On the stride length: I saw a video showing the photo showing John Green measuring what it called the toe to heel pace with a yardstick and that it measured about 36 inches. It also said a 6' man would have a toe to heel pace of 20-22 inches.   

 

 

Here is a photo showing what you described.  ( Heel to toe pace definition )

 

002%2029_BCM_Green_trackway__zpsjxxccima

 

 

Here is the heel to heel measurement.  ( stride length definition )

001%2029_BCM_Green_trackway__zpsunrraxdz

 

 

 

Something I learned from the video was there were 590 tracks counted, and of two different sizes; 15" and 13". One photo showed a 13" print and a 15" print pointed in different directions.  I'm having trouble believing someone faked nearly 600 tracks, and in two different sizes, and not all going the same direction.

 

Why fake 590 tracks? Why so many? How is faking 590 tracks any better than faking 400? Or 350?

  

There were over 1000 combined tracks reported. They were said to of gone into the bush - up and down inclines - and back onto the road at least a couple of times. The track-way was said to cover a couple of miles in all toll. The tracks came in the dark. Clear toe movement was mentioned by several witnesses in Green's group. By the time Green arrived later that evening - the road crew had managed to preserve about 60% of the prints.

On the stride length: I saw a video showing the photo showing John Green measuring what it called the toe to heel pace with a yardstick and that it measured about 36 inches. It also said a 6' man would have a toe to heel pace of 20-22 inches.   

 

 

Here is a photo showing what you described.  ( Heel to toe pace definition )

 

002%2029_BCM_Green_trackway__zpsjxxccima

 

 

Here is the heel to heel measurement.  ( stride length definition )

001%2029_BCM_Green_trackway__zpsunrraxdz

 

 

 

Snomething I leared from the video was there were 590 tracks counted, and%

The fact remains judging from your offerings your woo intoxication is beyond rational and reasonable.  I am not interested in woo addled  photo manipulations and fantasies

 

 

 

It's never as much fun to discuss when the evidence bar has been raised out of one's reach.      :)

 

 

You have yet another opportunity to answer correctly what John Green is perching on.  Last time you gave some babble about the freshness in the road markings.  I've pretty much idiot proofed the mark in question.   I'm asking you to identify what you see it in yellow next to the red arrow you ignored first time out.

 

001%2029_BCM_Green_trackway__zps5dq2auci

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BFF Donor

Has it occurred to the proponents engaged in this thread that you are being led down the primrose path by the denialists.     Engaging the deniers must be entertaining or something but it really only serves their purpose or they would not do it.     When they can keep Wallace and the fact he faked prints in print every day of the week, it supports their claim that all BF prints are hoaxed.    In another thread a long time ago I posted a clear unambiguous picture of a BF print.   A print deemed very interesting and worth of study by Meldrum himself and too large to be human.   It was hours old when I took the picture and not on a dusty road in California over 40 years ago.     There was some discussion of that for a day or two then no one has mentioned it since.    Nearly every day someone photographs and publishes BF print pictures.     The deniers pay no attention to new evidence but keep going back to Wallace and other known hoaxers as their golden boys because it serves their cause to debunk BF.   Wallace had stompers and hoaxed prints therefore all prints are hoaxed and fabricated.      All these never ending discussions of Wallace, stompers, costumes  and the PG film do is serve the purpose of the debunkers to instill doubt in those who are honest skeptics that are sitting on the fence.   The deniers self acknowledged mission is to convert as many people as they can to deny the possibility of BF.    

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