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The Actual Developing Of The Pgf (2)

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ThinkAboutPools
7 hours ago, Backdoc said:

 

I am not impressed by it.

 

Would you be open though to the results of the testing?  The TV producers got an Olympic sprinter in scientific tracking gear to run as fast as he could that same path.  The result was a man (at least a man in that kind of physical shape) could easily run faster than the subject in the memorial day footage.  yet, consider this:  In spite of how bad of a bigfoot hoax attempt you might think it to be, had the sprinter failed to run as fast as the subject on the film, it could only mean it was something real.  That is, something non  human as a human couldn't best it in a race.

 

We need to consider things as they come to us.  when they do we need to weigh them the best we can with the best we have available to us.  Better yet, doing this based on objective testing (such as the runner vs subject) and not just rely on our guy feeling.

 

I have made my feeling clear.  I am not impressed with it esp after it was tested.  That still does not make it a hoax.  (For me, I think it is).  Had the runner ran slower, it proves it could not be a hoax.  Doesn't explain what it is, but it makes certain what it cannot be.

 

BTW  WELCOME to the BFF Thinkaboutpools.

 

(final thought:  It is still possible it could be something nonhuman which happens to run at a pace that just happens to be slower than the sprinter. I mean. If I run that same path I would be slower than the test runner and still end up being something real after all)

 

What I mean is if I'm out with friends on Memorial Day and someone spots a small figure running across the field the last thought in my mind would be that it's Bigfoot. Unless you are out looking for Bigfoot....

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Old Time Lifter
6 hours ago, OkieFoot said:

I thought I would mention this, even though it doesn't really mean much one way or the other. In "Cracking the Bigfoot Code", Thinker Thunker measures the body proportions of the figure in the Memorial Day footage; the same way he measured Patty, Bob H. and other humans.

The figure measured 7%, which is non-human range; humans measured 20%. By comparison, Patty measured 5%. 

From the standpoint of a hoax: It should be noted the footage was made in 1996 when technology was more advanced than in 1967 and since the figure's body proportions are very close to Pattys, (per Thinker Thunker)", did the hoaxers (the Pates) and /or suitmaker utilize arm extensions? And who was the suitmaker?

I'm guessing it would probably take someone that could more closely examine the arms and hands, where the arms bend and how they move and are used to really determine much of anything but I don't know if that's possible with this particular footage.

I should mention in "CTBC", TT also shows the upper arm as longer than the lower arm. One analysis of the Mem. Day footage I saw also showed the same type arm proportions; upper longer than lower. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have a link to ThinkerThunker's video?  Too often he forces his comparisons often saying one thing when if you look at the screen he's stretching it to be nice.

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OkieFoot
11 hours ago, Old Time Lifter said:

 

Do you have a link to ThinkerThunker's video?  Too often he forces his comparisons often saying one thing when if you look at the screen he's stretching it to be nice.

 

OTL, at the bottom should be a link to the video. If you go to the 7:18 mark, a blurry frame of the Mem. Day figure appears and at the 7:22 mark, TT has a frame with his green "markers" illustrating what he thinks is the arm and leg lengths. I'm wondering if he used a somewhat clearer frame for his measurements than what is shown in his video with the green markers superimposed. 

 

I mentioned the upper arm being longer than the lower arm. The way TT has it, the upper arm is considerably longer than the lower arm; it has 14 markers for the upper arm and 9 for the lower arm. 

 

I'll try to find the analysis I mentioned earlier and post a link to it; that person shows an outline of what he thinks is the arm; it's slightly more bent than in TT's video.

 

 

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OkieFoot

This should be a link to the analysis I mentioned earlier. From the videos it brought up, it's the one that's in the top row, second from right, titled "Bigfoot Memorial Day Video Analysis."  It's shows the length as 7:35.

At the 2:48 mark it shows a frame with the arm, as the reviewer sees it, outlined in yellow.  

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=sfp&p=memorial+day+bigfoot+video#id=4&vid=fdb9fa05a04a920b3c552431918a541a&action=click 

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Old Time Lifter
6 hours ago, OkieFoot said:

 

OTL, at the bottom should be a link to the video. If you go to the 7:18 mark, a blurry frame of the Mem. Day figure appears and at the 7:22 mark, TT has a frame with his green "markers" illustrating what he thinks is the arm and leg lengths. I'm wondering if he used a somewhat clearer frame for his measurements than what is shown in his video with the green markers superimposed. 

 

I mentioned the upper arm being longer than the lower arm. The way TT has it, the upper arm is considerably longer than the lower arm; it has 14 markers for the upper arm and 9 for the lower arm. 

 

I'll try to find the analysis I mentioned earlier and post a link to it; that person shows an outline of what he thinks is the arm; it's slightly more bent than in TT's video.

 

 

 

Thanks, I'll watch it once the hectic pace of Christmas slows down a bit.

 

I'm not a fan of TT though as I said I think he fudges the measurements considerably.

 

Have a blessed and Merry Christmas!

 

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OldMort
Posted (edited)

Here are some more odds and ends regarding the processing of the PGF that I have come across recently:

Mainly very old and mostly differing versions of events...

 

 

** "At the Ohio conference, M.K.’s analysis is based (in part) on 8 glass slides that he obtained from Mrs. Patterson. The slides are taken from the original film. The slides show that the original film was "touched up" by the processor who is a friend of Mr. Patterson’s who worked for Kodak. Also the slides show that the markings that indicate who processed the film were punched out of the original film." (My bolding) ~ Robert Kittoe, May 27, 2008. Cryptomundo (Link is down)

 

 

** "What actually happened in the Patterson Case was that a mutual friend, - Jim McClarin rang me (Ivan Sanderson) late one night from California to say that word had come out that Roger had obtained some film of a Bigfoot and was on his way to have it processed. He requested help in handling matters, which we immediately promised, and we then started laying on all possible scientific, commercial, and publicity outlets." Ivan Sanderson  http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/pursuit68.htm

 

Then we have this conflicting version from McClarin:

 

** "If I had taken the film, I don't think I would have sent it off on an airplane unless I was deep in a wilderness someplace. Even then, I'd probably have insisted on flying out with the film. Why it was deemed so important to get it to DeAtley I can't quite fathom. What would an extra day or two hurt? At any rate, all I know is that I remember they had reportedly sent it by plane. I didn't get the story from Roger but from someone else.

I met Dahinden at Hodgson's variety store. I think he was there by the time I made it over there. Hodgson had come over earlier that morning (October 21) to the Bigfoot Motel where I had spent the night and informed me of Roger's story. I got dressed and headed over to the store. That may have been my first meeting with Dahinden although I was quite aware of his work in the field. We decided to get up to Yakima as fast as possible so we could see the film. We caught a plane from McKinleyville to Portland, then from Portland to Yakima where we were among the first seven people to view the film." Jim McClarin  http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/informal-interview-with-jim-mcclarin.html

 

 

 

**"This is the end of the Patterson-Gimlin story, and they have neither added to it nor detracted from it since. Nor, for once, have others attempted to do so, though there has been a great deal of both comment and criticism. This was occasioned by the nature of the story itself, and it is more than worth just mentioning, as a lot that has come to the surface throws new light on this knotty problem. But first, it is probably best to explain what happened after Patterson had his film developed.

To get this done he went to Hollywood where he sensibly had dupes made and then took the original back to Yakima and deposited it in a bank vault. He then tried to get some American scientists to look at it but none would, so he went to British Columbia at the invitation of the two oldest "Sasquatch"-hunters there--John Green, a newspaper publisher, and René Dahinden, originally a Swiss professional mountaineer but for nearly two decades employed by the Canadian Forestry Service. There, a showing was put on for a number of scientists. At this meeting, there were, in addition to Dr. Ian McTaggart-Cowan (Dean of Graduate Studies at the University of British Columbia, and the province's leading zoologist) a dozen or so scientists, including Don Abbott, an anthropologist with the Provincial Museum in Victoria. Most of the scientists admitted in print that, though they had come to the meeting as skeptics, they had left somewhat shaken. Here's how they stated their reactions in the Vancouver Province next day..."

(My bolding) Ivan Sanderson  http://www.bigfootencounters.com/biology/chapters.htm

 

You can read these in a lot of different ways...

Edited by OldMort
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Bill

I can correct one remark. Mrs. Patterson has transparencies, not glass slides. So whomever wrote that is allowing his imagination to distort fact. Some of the transparencies are 4x5", and others are 3x4", but all are on a film stock acetate base. I've personally inspected them and scanned them.

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Backdoc
On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 5:28 PM, OldMort said:

Here are some more odds and ends regarding the processing of the PGF that I have come across recently:

 

Then we have this conflicting version from McClarin:

 

** "If I had taken the film, I don't think I would have sent it off on an airplane unless I was deep in a wilderness someplace. Even then, I'd probably have insisted on flying out with the film. 

 

All I can say is what I think I would have done.  If I had such a film or in this case thought I had such a film I can't imagine trusting it with anyone.  I have to think I would behave however Zepruduer might have with the JFK film.   I would have been protective of it even If I had to leave most everything else behind.  If someone had asked to mail something like  that off I would have been reluctant.  I know the Diamond Industry is said to use normal post office at times.   So you insure the package.  big deal if it is lost or destroyed by accident.  I would drive it personally to the lab and wait until the hand delivered the product to be along with several copies.

 

Now if Roger was passing it off to someone who Al normally trusted and used I guess that is less of a concern.  However, to just mail something off like that, not me.

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OldMort

^^ I totally agree with you Backdoc.

 

Anyone with even the slightest degree of common sense would have done as you suggested.

 

But not these two for whatever reason.

 

As it turned out, they left for home less than 12 hours after paying big bucks to allegedly have it shipped by plane.

 

That's why their "tale" has never made any sense to me... :)

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SweatyYeti
4 hours ago, OldMort said:

^^ I totally agree with you Backdoc.

 

Anyone with even the slightest degree of common sense would have done as you suggested.

 

But not these two for whatever reason.

 

As it turned out, they left for home less than 12 hours after paying big bucks to allegedly have it shipped by plane.

 

That's why their "tale" has never made any sense to me... :)

 

 

And let's re-cap what Bob Heironimus "did"... :)  .....after "mailing the film to Yakima", he walked out of the Post Office, got into his car....and drove home to Yakima.  

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xspider1
9 hours ago, OldMort said:

Anyone with even the slightest degree of common sense would have done as you suggested.

 

"I would drive it personally to the lab and wait until the hand delivered the product to be along with several copies."

 

^ One point to me being that:  at some point they had to trust somebody(ies) else with the film.  For instance, I'm fairly sure that they could not have demanded access to the film development lab to 'supervise' the processing, but even if they had, that would not have made very much difference.  The processing still could have been botched.  If a plane was made available for them to fly the film to a lab then, I see nothing impossible about them doing just that.  🙄

 

 

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OkieFoot

Someone correct me if I have something wrong. The reason Roger had the film flown out

was because at that time he planned on remaining in N. Calif. and do more searching if there wasn't anything on the film. When they got back to their camp they were still planning on remaining to look for more evidence and it wasn't until around 5:00AM or so when it began raining heavily that Roger decided to return home. 

Wasn't flying the film out and getting it developed something he and Al D. had already worked out ahead of time? I doubt Roger just left everything to chance. 

And, since Roger had planned on remaining in N. Calif., his two choices were fly the film out or have someone drive back with the film. This goes to the point spider made above; it means the film would have to be entrusted to someone else regardless of how it was sent. 

 

When you consider Roger's plans, what he did makes more sense than making a 12 hour drive back to Yakima to get the film developed to see if there was actually anything on it and if there was not, turn right around a make another 12 hour drive right back to Bluff Creek to do more searching.

 

side question: Regarding the tracking dogs. Roger contacted Don Abbott on the same day of the encounter to see about getting tracking dogs brought down. When did Roger actually learn that there would be no tracking dogs brought down? Was it while he was still on the phone asking for the dogs, or later on? The reason I ask is did Roger have to wait around for a reply.

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OldMort
7 hours ago, OkieFoot said:

side question: Regarding the tracking dogs. Roger contacted Don Abbott on the same day of the encounter to see about getting tracking dogs brought down. When did Roger actually learn that there would be no tracking dogs brought down? Was it while he was still on the phone asking for the dogs, or later on? The reason I ask is did Roger have to wait around for a reply.

 

According to Chris Murphy in Bigfoot Film Journal, it was Al Hodgson who made the call to Abbot during the time that Roger and Bob went off to Eureka to mail off the film.

 

Abbot denied the request and said that he would "wait and see the film."

 

Abbot then called John Green and Al DeAtley and informed  them of the events etc.

 

On the way back home from Eureka, Patterson and Gimlin stopped at the Lower Trinity River Ranger Station around 9pm and met again with Hodgson and Syl McCoy.

 

It seems probable that it was at this point that Roger was informed that there would not be any dogs flown down from Canada.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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OkieFoot

^^

Thanks Mort. I would think you're right that Roger probably learned at the Ranger Station there wouldn't be any tracking dogs coming. 

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Backdoc
On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:22 PM, SweatyYeti said:

 

 

And let's re-cap what Bob Heironimus "did"... :)  .....after "mailing the film to Yakima", he walked out of the Post Office, got into his car....and drove home to Yakima.  

 

it makes sense for Roger and Bob to think they were staying longer and then when conditions changed they left.  These were:

 

-Weather changing 

-No tracking dogs coming

-Being tired.

-The realization they got lucky once and they were unlikely to be so lucky again.   This faced with other factors might be enough to have them go home.  Then, as they thought of home the thoughts would turn to the hope of seeing the developed product when they got back/ vindication.

 

 

For me this explains how they could mail the film out urgently and then end up traveling back to that same location (Yakima) anyway a day later.   Yes, had they known that they could have just carried the film with them.  It is something I THINK I would have done but then again, they had another roll of film and maybe thought they might get another.

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