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How much longer should we wait for a PGF recreation before it's determined it can't be done?

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hiflier
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Until there is proof, i.e. body on a slab, then the whole subject could be viewed as a trap. I've pushed too hard sometimes to get past that but pushing hard by someone is what it will take. So take the evidence to the pros to get them on board and be done with it.

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Backdoc
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15 hours ago, Martin said:

That's how they got Uri. He couldn't bend spoons under controlled conditions. It had nothing to do with the fact that others appeared to be able to bend spoons.

 

 

The most important point is not what Uri failed to do.  It is the fact Randi was ABLE TO DO the same thing Uri was able to do on many occasions.  This put doubt in his supernatural claim.  As far as some test on the tonight show, it would be easy for Uri to say 'the lights are throwing off my powers tonight'    Uri certainly didn't go out of business after and went right back to bending spoons.

 

It is the obvious fact Randi was able to Replicate the claimed supernatural act.

 

No one has done what Roger and Bob were able to do if it was a man in a suit.  It should be easier than bending spoons.

 

 

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dmaker

Backdoc, can you point to some links that show where Randi bent spoons on the Tonight Show, or any other show, to demonstrate how they were done? 

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OkieFoot
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19 hours ago, Martin said:

Blevin's suit was for sale. It had been damaged in a pro wrestling match. I don't know the details.

 

Tontar had a partially made suit but as far as I know never finished it.

 

 

Chris Walas suit was declared a real Sasquatch by Matt Moneymaker. 

 

So suit makers 1 bigfooters 0

 

 

If it happened in a pro wrestling match, the damage was probably fake. ;)

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Backdoc
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10 minutes ago, dmaker said:

Backdoc, can you point to some links that show where Randi bent spoons on the Tonight Show, or any other show, to demonstrate how they were done? 

 

Here ya go D.  

Its a bit long but it is really interesting on both Uri, the claims, Randi showing it can be replicated, and the 'test' on the tonight show.  I would like to see the big dogs in Hollywood suits do this with the PGF but they fail to do so.

 

 

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dmaker

Thanks for the link.

 

I've said it many times before, but I will say it again. Why is it so hard to understand that the big dogs just don't seem to care? The pgf is simply not important enough for the effort. I think the pgr proponents get so wrapped up in it and talk about day after day that they fail to realize just how unimportant the pgf is to anyone but footers.

 

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Backdoc
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22 minutes ago, dmaker said:

Thanks for the link.

 

I've said it many times before, but I will say it again. Why is it so hard to understand that the big dogs just don't seem to care? The pgf is simply not important enough for the effort. I think the pgr proponents get so wrapped up in it and talk about day after day that they fail to realize just how unimportant the pgf is to anyone but footers.

 

 

I can understand that. Let me just throw these two points out which I bet many will agree with me who might think Patty is real:

 

1)  Let's see the James Randi Test in regards to Patty. How would Randi test or demonstrate Patty was a man in a suit? It would not be just a  bunch of talk.   Since people can fall for stuff Randi would not just say " it is a hoax" and move on.  You must show it is a hoax.  He would TEST it.   In this case that means showing it was a man in a suit by replication of the PGF in a same or similar way with a suit.  That is not too much to ask.  If they did so, most would say, "Yea, it looks like it could be a man in a suit"  Not all but most.

 

2) The interest in the PGF demo by the big dogs:  They might use the excuse they fear no matter how good it will never convince all the believers.  A good demo would convince nearly everyone.  If they don't want to get into all of this then why are they appearing on the TV show to begin with?  Think how easy it should be for them to debunk a suit made before man even landed on the moon.  Even with experts, Talk is cheap.   I think they are fearful of failing where 2 cowboys succeeded in suit making.  What big dog wants to fail vs Roger and Bob?

 

 

Did James Randi shrink to the challenge of Uri Gellar and the spoons?  No, he jumped right up there. 

A patty suit would be easy to make and inexpensive.  Not performing a James Randi Test by making a suit is just excuse making.

 

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Squatchy McSquatch

The 'James Randi challenge' is aimed at paranormal claims, not monkey suits.

 

The Mythbusters would've been the guys to call, but Adam and Jamie no longer work together.

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norseman
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11 minutes ago, Squatchy McSquatch said:

The 'James Randi challenge' is aimed at paranormal claims, not monkey suits.

 

The Mythbusters would've been the guys to call, but Adam and Jamie no longer work together.

 

I sent Jamie a email with the idea of doing a PGF episode. Never heard back.

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Squatchy McSquatch

Adam Savage has a newish Youtube channel called Tested.

 

I'll see if there's a contact for him and see what he says.

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salubrious
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4 hours ago, dmaker said:

I've said it many times before, but I will say it again. Why is it so hard to understand that the big dogs just don't seem to care? The pgf is simply not important enough for the effort. I think the pgr proponents get so wrapped up in it and talk about day after day that they fail to realize just how unimportant the pgf is to anyone but footers.

 

+1 and I'm a proponent; its pretty obvious that anyone that might have the talent doesn't have the impetus.

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SWWASAS

The P/G film is not definitive.    That is why science does not care.   Nor would any modern high resolution video be definitive either.    Costuming and digital video image production have reached the point where you cannot use a photographic image as of proof of existence unless it is in the case of a previously accepted but thought to be extinct animal.    We have seen a few cases like that recently accepted by science from a photograph.    But given no accepted bone or fossil finds of such a creature in North America, it will take more than a picture to get science to even look.    As far as they are concerned it would be like finding a T Rex in the PNW woods.  But even that is a different situation because we have dinosaur fossils in North America.  

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Cotter
On 8/2/2017 at 11:19 AM, dmaker said:

Thanks for the link.

 

I've said it many times before, but I will say it again. Why is it so hard to understand that the big dogs just don't seem to care? The pgf is simply not important enough for the effort. I think the pgr proponents get so wrapped up in it and talk about day after day that they fail to realize just how unimportant the pgf is to anyone but footers.

 

 

Hi Dmaker!  Who do you feel are the 'big dogs'?  Also, depending on what study you look at, 20-30% of Americans believe bigfoot exists, or probably exists.  That's 64-96 million people in America (add another 7 million if you include Canada).  That's a lot of footers, no?  

 

What I'm trying to say is that the interest in the BF phenom (and by proxy the PGF) may be much greater than you give it credit.

 

And finally, we did have a 'big dog' weigh in and say that it is not a man in a suit.  But said 'big dog' is still being dismissed by skeptics.  Why?

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SWWASAS

Martin I have to agree with you that BF is better off a myth.     I don't care about the money makers (now that's a real pun)  of different ilk so much as I think BF is better off without government management of their affairs.   They almost managed most Native American tribes out of existence.    

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xspider1
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On 8/2/2017 at 11:19 AM, dmaker said:

Why is it so hard to understand that the big dogs just don't seem to care? 

 

The big dogs may not care to replicate the PGf subject specifically, however, with the ongoing (and significant) interest in Bigfoot, it would be senseless for the big dogs not to create a costume that at least closely approaches her realism, if they could.  And, they have not done that.  PGf denialists try to brush that off, but it never goes away.

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