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If the PGF is fake, all of this has to be true.


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hiflier
10 hours ago, hiflier said:

Hoaxers would ride three miles back to camp on horseback to retrieve plaster

 

I had meant to write "Hoaxers WOULDN'T ride three miles back to camp............" but I think OkieFoot caught what I meant with this:

 

8 hours ago, OkieFoot said:

To me, Roger's actions were not what you would expect from someone that made a hoax film.

He makes a hoax film, knows he'll need plaster for casts, but has to go all the way back to camp to get it;

 

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Guest Bigfoothunter
On 11/21/2017 at 6:18 PM, xspider1 said:

But, he owed Vilma some money so that negates the PGf completely!   :lol:

 

The money Vilma gave him from what I recall was to invest in a documentary project with Roger as a Bigfoot Hunter. I do not believe that project was ever finished.

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xspider1

^ good point, BFH.  I didn't mean to make light of any unpaid loan (which is never funny) but, if Velma's money was an investment then, that's a completely different deal.  I was mostly trying to emphasize the fact that the "back story" is almost all conjecture (plus some pure, irrelevant crud).  If the PGf were fake then a lot of that negative conjecture would be true which does not seem to be the case at all.  The PGf conjecture and the personal aspersions in regard to the people involved are systematically refuted over and over again, like clock-work. 

Edited by xspider1
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Squatchy McSquatch
32 minutes ago, xspider1 said:

if Velma's money was an investment then, that's a completely different deal.

 

Not an investment. 

 

A loan for $700 to be paid back $850

 

rad.jpg

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3 hours ago, Squatchy McSquatch said:

 

Not an investment. 

 

A loan for $700 to be paid back $850

 

rad.jpg

 

That might be the terms, but the intent was as BFH said.

 

Who knows they may have been planning on including the tracks near bluff creek in the film of Patterson-Radford.  When gimlin the joy rider and patterson the bigfoot hunter got there the tracks were in too poor of shape.  My guess when Patterson nabbed Bigfoot in the form of the PGF he decided to separate any idea the PGF was gong to be part of any Patterson -Radford documentary/film because he was not sharing the $$$$$ with her.  Why is this a big deal?

 

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Patterson-Gimlin
On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 0:46 AM, Backdoc said:

Sometimes I think real apes look more like a suit ( using the 'lines' characteristic ) than a man in a suit.  Do any skeptis really think real apes fail to exhibit these Lines, diaper butt, and so on?

 

what you point out on Patty I see on real apes.

 

I agree and it is logical to make suits in that form. The thing is that there are lots of real gorilla samples ,specimens, pictures and films . There are very poor and very few  examples of large man-apes except maybe ,just maybe mind you one example.

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15 minutes ago, Patterson-Gimlin said:

I agree and it is logical to make suits in that form. The thing is that there are lots of real gorilla samples ,specimens, pictures and films . There are very poor and very few  examples of large man-apes except maybe ,just maybe mind you one example.

 

Well in 1967 I don't  see those lines on Gemora Suits like an ape in a zoo.  I see diff lines, bagginess, and so on which are obvious give away it is a suit.    They didn't even do apes convincingly until the Congo/ Gorillas in the Mist era years later of a known animal.

 

 

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If the PGF is fake, it means Roger possessed a high level of knowledge of Sasquatch foot anatomy and how a Sasquatch walks.

Here is what Roger was able to train his actor to do:

1. Walk with a bent knee gait, and was able to maintain the gait through the whole walk seen on the film.

2. Rotate his knees laterally as he walked.

3. Was capable of walking  in a single line manner.

4. Walk with a 42-48 inch step, toe to heel; then after Roger had run out of film, continued walking and increased his step to 60 in. shortly before starting up an embankment. (apparently the suit prevented him from hearing Roger yell "Cut!" ;))

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Guest Bigfoothunter
1 hour ago, OkieFoot said:

If the PGF is fake, it means Roger possessed a high level of knowledge of Sasquatch foot anatomy and how a Sasquatch walks.

Here is what Roger was able to train his actor to do:

1. Walk with a bent knee gait, and was able to maintain the gait through the whole walk seen on the film.

2. Rotate his knees laterally as he walked.

3. Was capable of walking  in a single line manner.

4. Walk with a 42-48 inch step, toe to heel; then after Roger had run out of film, continued walking and increased his step to 60 in. shortly before starting up an embankment. (apparently the suit prevented him from hearing Roger yell "Cut!" ;))

 

Not to mention that Patty walked knocked-knee'd.

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PBeaton

Another thing that would have ta be true is their knowledge of primate foot anatomy an function, well ahead of what was known at the time.

 

I seem to recall Green sayin' they thought the famous Laverty track photo showed a track made by simply steppin' on a stick, as non of them had the slightest idea about the midtarsal break.

 

  

 

It wasn't until years later this characteristic was recognized for what it was, a perfectly natural function found in the primate foot. When this was brought to the table suggestin' the authenticity of the tracks an thus the film, there were those in the scientific community who argued a biped wouldn't display such a characteristic as it was a characteristic found in quadrupedal great apes.

Again, with more time, that mid foot flexibility was recognized as bein' a characteristic found in even our bipedal feet.

 

  Image result for Ape with Human Feet

 

Some folks claim they hoaxed the tracks. That means they not only knew an understood primate foot anatomy an function decades ahead of their time, they incorporated it successfully into the tracks(an the filmed subject) an then strangely...cast the two flattest tracks as evidence ! That would have ta be true...as crazy as it sounds ! An let's not forget, folks got to the site to examine the tracks for themselves, two of them hunters, they found the tracks convincin'. 

 

 Image result for roger patterson and bob gimlin with bigfoot casts

 

 

 

 

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Here is a human that puts on a fur suit and then is capable of walking in a nonhuman manner that others have not been able to fully replicate. Replications never seem to do anything more than just the bent knee part while walking in a straight line. It's amazing to see all the different nonhuman walking characteristics this human in the suit was able to combine together in his famous walk; while at the same time had the ability to make tracks much deeper than other humans. When it comes to faking a Bigfoot walk and leaving behind realistic looking tracks 6 times deeper than other human tracks, this guy could do everything.

 

When you think of the capabilities this human possessed, what is truly amazing is how much of a coincidence it was that this particular human not only happened to live in Yakima, Washington but was also acquainted with Roger Patterson. :blink:

And has kept quiet for over 50 years, going on 51.

 

I wonder why no one in Hollywood ever contacted Roger to get the phone number of his actor and his suitmaker so they could hire them. ;)

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hiflier
6 hours ago, Bigfoothunter said:

 

Not to mention that Patty walked knocked-knee'd.

 

I thought about this after you mentioned it, BFH. If one was knock-kneed then how does that woke with an inline or nearly inline gait? The only way it can work is by moving the knee laterally in order to get one foot close to being under the other. Humans walk with left/right alternating footprints. A Human who is knock-kneed exacerbates the width of the trackway unless the Human can rotate the knee laterally to place one foot in front of the other. I'm not knock-kneed, if anything I'm slightly bowed, And with slightly bowed legs I would think making an inline trackway would be even easier- IT'S NOT.

 

My inline walking comes with effort and discomfort in the sense that it isn't natural. For me to walk inline for a minute is somewhat of a hardship and if I had this enormous padded suit on to upset my center of gravity? I could probably walk in I but I'm pretty sure my 'inline' tracks wouldn't be inline. And that wouldn't even be attempted on an uneven surface like a sandbar or anywhere else but a firm. flat surface. Folks need to think about these things. Something as seemingly simple as being knock-kneed takes on a whole new dynamic when applied to the PGF.

 

And in the PGF everything looks effortless and natural from the sandbar to the woods, stepping on sticks, different substrates like sand and gravel, and never a falter. And to think it was all done in a 'suit' with a super padded diaper butt, unbelievably thick legs and arms, shoulder pads, helmet, face mask, stick extensions, flexible toes, muscle definition in the calves and pectorals, AND taking two or three steps with one's head turned.

 

And what do we get? People rising up out of the Pumpkin Patch waving their hands and shouting hoax who cannot get their brains around things like this. It truly boggles the mind.

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  • 2 weeks later...

(from hiflier and spider)

If Roger was making a fake film, you would have thought he would have either made sure he had more than just one minute (24ft) of film left on the reel to use, or put in an unused second reel in case the first take didn't turn out. If it was a fake film, it means he was 600 miles from home, had only 24 ft. of film left in the reel, did only one take and still shipped the film off later that same day to have it developed, while having no idea if the film would turn out okay or not. Wasn't the second reel subsequently all used up also?

 

If Roger was making a fake film, why didn't he have the film developed while he was in No. Calif. and then make sure it turned out all right before heading home? If it didn't, he could do more takes. After all, under the hoax scenario that's why he went to No. Calif. The way he actually did things, he could have got home and discovered the film wasn't any good.

He would been left up the creek without a Bigfoot.

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1 hour ago, OkieFoot said:

(from hiflier and spider)

If Roger was making a fake film, you would have thought he would have either made sure he had more than just one minute (24ft) of film left on the reel to use, or put in an unused second reel in case the first take didn't turn out. If it was a fake film, it means he was 600 miles from home, had only 24 ft. of film left in the reel, did only one take and still shipped the film off later that same day to have it developed, while having no idea if the film would turn out okay or not. Wasn't the second reel subsequently all used up also?

 

If Roger was making a fake film, why didn't he have the film developed while he was in No. Calif. and then make sure it turned out all right before heading home? If it didn't, he could do more takes. After all, under the hoax scenario that's why he went to No. Calif. The way he actually did things, he could have got home and discovered the film wasn't any good.

He would been left up the creek without a Bigfoot.

 

IF it was a hoax, as I stated in the other thread, the shorter the film the less opportunity for flaws to be exposed.  There could be 10 other reels of footage that looked bad and discarded.  

 

If the film was hoaxed he very well could have had them processed and viewed before the fateful viewing in the basement.  A few days earlier could allow him to view it then send it up north.  This would explain the Kodak leader and the mailer seen at the viewing plus collaborate the idea that Kodak did not process on weekends in most cases.  A week earlier makes the tight timeline just be the story teller not working out the logistics and timing.   

 

A bunch of what ifs but in my opinion it’s plausible.  

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xspider1

My point in the other thread was more about any criticism in regard to Roger's filming method.  The way I see it, Roger did just about as well as anyone could have done under those circumstances.  There are reports that he practiced his camera work for just such an opportunity.  If the PGf were a fake then we would need to convince ourselves that Roger (or, whoever filmed the "faked event") would have somehow known that the closest film frames of 'the Bigfoot costume' would be the most convincing so they would have known beforehand to stop running and steady their camera right at the closest point of contact.  I just see no way that that ever happened under any hoax scenario.  

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