The Squatch advantage

[norseman]

43 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

It is standard procedure in ALL DNA labs where the complexity of the sample source is at issue, otherwise the testing is useless. Dr. Todd Disotell will do everything by the book. It's a pretty safe 'assumption'. And since I don't know whether or not the testing has been done yet your past tense may not apply?

 

Anyway, just for reference on the process they are looking to do: http://cryptosightings.com/tag/dr-todd-disotell

 

Thanks for the update!

[hiflier]

23 minutes ago, norseman said:

 

Thanks for the update!

 

I wish I had a more recent one to offer. That article was almost a year old. Don't know if funding for the testing was ever completed. If the DNA process has not begun yet funding may be all that anyone has been waiting on?

Edited June 2, 2018 by hiflier

[norseman]

I guess I had assumed it was ongoing.....

[hiflier]

If it is I don't know where it stands. I know Dr. Meldrum said last Fall that they had all hoped to have something this year. The lid seems to be still on for now though. Derek Randles doesn't know who I am so maybe someone who knows him personally might be able to get some news? I can also understand why no one would want to jump the gun on such an important matter as this until everything has been sorted out, discovered (if anything), and whatever plans need to be in place for any kind of announcement pro or con.

 

Either way it goes, whatever the outcome, it will no doubt impact the Bigfoot community for both proponents and skeptics alike. And I say that knowing full well what an understatement that really is.

Edited June 2, 2018 by hiflier

[SWWASAS]

16 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

 

There is always a 'control'. DNA is unique to each and every individual. It is SOP that ANYONE that would have come in contact either with the nest site or the nest investigation would have by necessity been swabbed for their DNA in order to rule them out. The first thing would be looking at any hair morphology to rule out Humans and any already known animals. Whatever passes that filter gets tested. Any DNA found is compared to the "control" and if there's a match it is then ruled out. It doesn't matter if it is a crime lab or any other forensic endeavor there are protocols to address the possibility of contaminated samples. This process can take a few days to a few weeks to work through depending on the number of people involved, the quality of the sample, and the complexity of the environment in which samples were extracted from.

 

One would certainly think that this time around NO mistakes will be made! Especially when considering where and how these samples were found and the potential magnitude of the results should the ultimate disclosure be the news that there is an hominid in the forest- and it ain't us.

All you have to do is look at technicians in a DNA lab, see how they are dressed head to toe, head covered, masks in place,  gloves, and that is the protocol that should have been in place when the nest was searched for hairs.   Yes it is a pain, and probably not always successful in avoiding contamination but why complicate and muddy the issue with contamination by ignoring long established DNA processing protocols.   We have groups who claim to be using scientific principals but when you look closely at them,   they are not.    It is not like those protective measures are hard to get.   You can go to your nearest auto paint store for protective suits,  head gear,  masks and gloves.  Hair in an auto paint finish is not desirable either.   Sure human DNA of those present can be compared to suspect samples but the problem arises when DNA samples are fragmented or incomplete.  Contamination is always the first conclusion if an unknown sample has human traits.   

 

Shadowborne:   " This is the circle that we are stuck on and still have not change. Patty is has nothing to do with what is happening today and it does not matter. Patty is just an  observation that was filmed by some key witnesses and that's all. If she was never filmed there would be no one talking about this creature now. It is our thought process that needs to change and how we are to interact with these creatures that need changing. If we are stuck on the same thing and are seeing no results then we need to change to get the results that we want. This is what is happening to those who are getting results . They learned to change the way to interact with these creatures.In other words they have discovered what was needed to interact. Achieving results that others have not thought of trying cause it sounded to crazy. Only to believe that these creatures could be either Human /ape or just a new type of ape. So they used tactics that would only work on apes/chimps achieving zero results. Applying these methods do not work cause if they did science would be having interaction with these creatures in the now and they don't.. We need to learn from those who's methods are working and stick to them.Maybe then we will not need that body but have evidence of the way they live. Which is way better then murdering one of these creatures that might have played a big part in our evolution. The part that really scares the hack out of me. Since this can change a lot about our **belief** Maybe this is why they should remain elusive, myth, a long remaining mystery. I know that I can be happy with this even though I know that I have had my own encounters with them. But we all need to change the way that we search for them. "

 

I cannot agree more.   Too many assumptions are made about intelligence,  what they are,   what they are capable of, and the fall back position of most field researchers are that they are a dumb ape.  It does not help that people like Meldrum further that theory.    Game cameras in plain sight,   wood knocks,  whooping,  even baiting are all evidence that humans think they are dealing with a dumb animal.   Hell it works on deer,   elk,  and turkeys,   why not BF?      Who teaches techniques for BF research?    The BFRO, and the Olympic project are the only ones I know that runs expeditions and gives classes.   You have to be pretty serious about the topic to shell our hundreds of dollars for each expedition.   So we have hundreds of BFRO "Finding Bigfoot"  and Derek Randle clones running around following their personal dogma about methodology.    Quite frankly I think much of it is just Theater.    Mean while alternative methods in the field are probably getting better results but no one knows because it is field research heresy not to follow the BFRO model or question the Olympic Project.  If you do have better results who do you tell?   They pretty much control the bully pulpit.   Both have certainly blown me off.    

Edited June 2, 2018 by SWWASAS

[Twist]

14 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

It is standard procedure in ALL DNA labs where the complexity of the sample source is at issue, otherwise the testing is useless. Dr. Todd Disotell will do everything by the book. It's a pretty safe 'assumption'. And since I don't know whether or not the testing has been done yet your past tense may not apply?

 

Anyway, just for reference on the process they are looking to do: http://cryptosightings.com/tag/dr-todd-disotell

 

So the short of it is, your assuming. 

[ShadowBorn]

Quote

All you have to do is look at technicians in a DNA lab, see how they are dressed head to toe, head covered, masks in place,  gloves, and that is the protocol that should have been in place when the nest was searched for hairs.   Yes it is a pain, and probably not always successful in avoiding contamination but why complicate and muddy the issue with contamination by ignoring long established DNA processing protocols.   We have groups who claim to be using scientific principals but when you look closely at them,   they are not.    It is not like those protective measures are hard to get.   You can go to your nearest auto paint store for protective suits,  head gear,  masks and gloves.  Hair in an auto paint finish is not desirable either.   Sure human DNA of those present can be compared to suspect samples but the problem arises when DNA samples are fragmented or incomplete.  Contamination is always the first conclusion if an unknown sample has human traits.

SWW

You the right to retrieve evidence in those nesting areas is to be wearing all those so called suites so that it is not contaminated by human presence. This way that the evidence is clear in the clearest form of evidence free of contamination. But what the heck do we know right ! You would figure if these nest were of these creatures they would be found all over the place and just in one of the US. This just makes it look like these things are apes or chimps living on the ground to prove their point in which it does not. The same goes with the DNA that some how keeps coming back contaminated Human. They just do not want to face that these creatures can be what some of us already know what they are.

Quote

I cannot agree more.   Too many assumptions are made about intelligence,  what they are,   what they are capable of, and the fall back position of most field researchers are that they are a dumb ape.  It does not help that people like Meldrum further that theory.    Game cameras in plain sight,   wood knocks,  whooping,  even baiting are all evidence that humans think they are dealing with a dumb animal.   Hell it works on deer,   elk,  and turkeys,   why not BF?      Who teaches techniques for BF research?    The BFRO, and the Olympic project are the only ones I know that runs expeditions and gives classes.   You have to be pretty serious about the topic to shell our hundreds of dollars for each expedition.   So we have hundreds of BFRO "Finding Bigfoot"  and Derek Randle clones running around following their personal dogma about methodology.    Quite frankly I think much of it is just Theater.    Mean while alternative methods in the field are probably getting better results but no one knows because it is field research heresy not to follow the BFRO model or question the Olympic Project.  If you do have better results who do you tell?   They pretty much control the bully pulpit.   Both have certainly blown me off.  

It is like the Power To Be if they do not get the result that they want they fudge it to prove there theory to prove them selves right. So then they start to tell who is wrong and that there way is right and everyone else is wrong.  Sure at first it all worked well for them but these creature have caught on to their tactics. Now they are being out smarted by these creatures and have no idea on what to do next. But they do not want to try other ways because to do so will prove those who have right. We might not have the proof that they want but we are having the contact that they want. I am up for a body but not on the terms of how us human want. I am pretty sure you understand this and I know that Midnight Owl knows. He has done a lot has been able to get great footage with those thermals . Thermals are key and if properly used I am sure we can gain even more footage of these creatures . Dave Mann has done it with us and now I am going to do my best as well. It just takes time and hope fully one of us will be able to get footage even better then Patty. Hope fully we can get footage like a family unit eating or even drinking from a creek or a river, or a new born being born. Then gaining that DNA for a sample with the footage.rather then dispatching a body. New tactics need to be taken.

[Airdale]

2 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

It does not help that people like Meldrum further that theory.

 

This is just supposition SW, but Jeff Meldrum may have a solid reason for tacitly supporting the Gigantopithcus theory regardless of personal thoughts (and I haven't spoken with him enough to gain insight into those). Look at the resistance in the scientific community to the possibility of a known prehistoric critter having survived and migrated to North America, then imagine the blowback if instead he suggested an entirely new and possibly quite intelligent addition to the human family. Professional suicide doesn't begin to cover it.

[norseman]

Its easy. Meldrum looks at feet. Sasquatch tracks have a mid tarsal break, which is very ape like. Not unlike a Chimp when it walks bioedally.

 

Humans and our closest Homo cousins have a foot with a longitudinal arch. Very different foot mechanics at play. And considered much more modern than a flexible great ape like “flat foot”.

 

Nobody has a skull imprint of a Sasquatch.....no way to measure CC of the brain case. So based on footprints? If the foot is archaic it stands to reason that the rest of it is as well. Compared to Humans, Neanderthals, etc...

 

Without a body of course there is no sure fire way to be 100 percent sure of this. And with a incomplete fossil record its hard to say when our arch arose in our genus. But as a scientist he is following what the evidence is telling him. If Sasquatch tracks exhibited an arch like ours? Then Im sure the Giganto theory would be out the window....

[ShadowBorn]

Airdale

Neither did the scientist of old who risked their lives for sticking to their beliefs who had to stay in secret  for the sake of not being burned alive for heresy. If one is convicted by what they believe to be true then they should risk it all to prove those who claim it to be false. Conviction in truth is greater then a lie.

 

con·vic·tion

2: a firmly held belief or opinion.

We are finding creatures to this day that should not be here and science has no idea on how to explain this. So what is the difference with this creature. He should stand up to thugs that have no idea what is possible in this world.

[norseman]

Added.

 

I think part of the problem is researcher are being outsmarted in the woods. So they equate that to brain power. A Cougar recently successfully stalked and killed one of two mtn bikers in Washington. One second your enjoying your day and then the next second your food for a forest predator. Cougars are no where near as intelligent as humans..... But again and again on their turf? We are made to look like fools. Deer do a better job of avoiding Cougars than we do. 

Added 2.

 

Humans view intelligence in a jaded way.  Great Apes are dumb right? Not even close. Chimps drive cars, use matches and lit fires and hand tools. A 400cc brain in nature is a powerful tool. Its just not a 1200 cc brain that lands humans on the moon. Sasquatch is bipedal. Assuming bipedalism only arose once? It stands to reason that a Sasquatch brain is somewhere between a Human and a Chimp..... 800 cc brain case? So 2/3s as smart as us and TWICE as smart as a chimp...... Think about that. 

 

Maybe our ancestors dealt with this kind of intelligence but certainly Humans today have no way of being able to compare that kind of intelligence with anything else in the animal kingdom. Its crazy smart compared to a Cougar or a Bear or even a Chimp. But not a human either.....its not going to invent the longer lasting light bulb or cure cancer.

[Squatchy McSquatch]

1 hour ago, Airdale said:

 

This is just supposition SW, but Jeff Meldrum may have a solid reason for tacitly supporting the Gigantopithcus theory regardless of personal thoughts (and I haven't spoken with him enough to gain insight into those). Look at the resistance in the scientific community to the possibility of a known prehistoric critter having survived and migrated to North America, then imagine the blowback if instead he suggested an entirely new and possibly quite intelligent addition to the human family. Professional suicide doesn't begin to cover it.

 

Yes it’s just supposition.

 

There is no evidence to suggest that Sasquatch is descended from Gigantopithecus, save for wishful thinking.

 

Meldrum likes to pretend that Gigantopithecus crossed the Bering Strait ice bridge. Meldrum knows he cannot back up this claim with any evidence or proof, so he resorts to dismissive rhetoric when asked to back up his claim. 

 

All Meldrum has is an interest in a 50 year old hoaxed film, a collection of plaster casts (some of which have been proven to be fake), and a cast of an elk lay.

 

Meldrum knows this, so he relies on an unwavering fan base and self-publication. In many ways Meldrum has already committed professional suicide and he knows this too. He may be employed as a professor, but Don Jeffrey Meldrum has forever relegated himself into the realm of cryptozoology — just like Krantz and Bindernagel before him.

 

No blowback necessary.

 

So sad too bad this is and always will be the status of Sasquatch.

 

There is zero evidence of Gigantopithecus in North America.

 

Just wishful thinking...

 

Gonna put a (bf) body on a slab? Never gonna happen. More wishful thinking...

 

In the meantime I can point you to many proven Bigfoot hoaxes. This isn’t wishful thinking it’s fact.

 

But it’s fun to play make-believe on the internet, isn’t it? 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Squatchy McSquatch

[SWWASAS]

1 hour ago, Airdale said:

 

This is just supposition SW, but Jeff Meldrum may have a solid reason for tacitly supporting the Gigantopithcus theory regardless of personal thoughts (and I haven't spoken with him enough to gain insight into those). Look at the resistance in the scientific community to the possibility of a known prehistoric critter having survived and migrated to North America, then imagine the blowback if instead he suggested an entirely new and possibly quite intelligent addition to the human family. Professional suicide doesn't begin to cover it.

I have spoken to Meldrum about relative intelligence of BF and because of the similar size and location of the Gigantopithecus find in Asia, he leans towards that as the ancestor of BF.   He may be right for all I know.     He is in the ape camp because of lack of cultural artifacts associated with BF.    Lack of stone tools, spear points,  baskets, and other human artifacts which to him points to something primitive and ape like, rather than humanoid.   Most modern human ancestors and variants living simultaneously with humans have cultural artifacts associated with them.   Going back far enough it is just rocks that seemed to have been chosen and used as tools.   Shaping rocks followed that before it evolved into elegant and cleverly crafted arrowheads and spearpoints we cannot even reproduce today.      Again he might be right, but who has been in a BF camp to know what they have and use on a daily basis?   Most if not all observations of them have been when they were out of camp, if they have camps.  .   If they do not use weapons,   why would they be carrying anything around, other than fresh kills?  That has been observed.    I think his assessment on cultural artifacts is premature due to the unknowns.   They live in the wettest places in North America.    Lewis and Clark wintered at Fort Clatsup Oregon and wrote about how all their skin clothing was rotting off their bodies.  Maybe BF tried clothes but had a similar experience and just decided their fur / hair was good enough.  We just do not know enough to make conclusions without more data.  

 

I sure looks to me like these rocks were worked.  There is no weathering.   Nothing similar was any where near where this glyph was placed for me to find.  Whatever placed this was not some monkey playing with sticks.  I don't know if this was art or some sort of communication.   Either way, it is not something one associates with dumb apes.  

Edited June 2, 2018 by SWWASAS

[hiflier]

50 minutes ago, Squatchy McSquatch said:

 

Yes it’s just supposition.

 

There is no evidence to suggest that Sasquatch is descended from Gigantopithecus, save for wishful thinking.

 

Meldrum likes to pretend that Gigantopithecus crossed the Bering Strait ice bridge. Meldrum knows he cannot back up this claim with any evidence or proof, so he resorts to dismissive rhetoric when asked to back up his claim. 

 

All Meldrum has is an interest in a 50 year old hoaxed film, a collection of plaster casts (some of which have been proven to be fake), and a cast of an elk lay.

 

Meldrum knows this, so he relies on an unwavering fan base and self-publication. In many ways Meldrum has already committed professional suicide and he knows this too. He may be employed as a professor, but Don Jeffrey Meldrum has forever relegated himself into the realm of cryptozoology — just like Krantz and Bindernagel before him.

 

No blowback necessary.

 

So sad too bad this is and always will be the status of Sasquatch.

 

There is zero evidence of Gigantopithecus in North America.

 

Just wishful thinking...

 

Gonna put a (bf) body on a slab? Never gonna happen. More wishful thinking...

 

In the meantime I can point you to many proven Bigfoot hoaxes. This isn’t wishful thinking it’s fact.

 

But it’s fun to play make-believe on the internet, isn’t it? 

 

 

 

 

 

Talk about not reading a room  

[Airdale]

This is an interesting thread, but with apologies to hiflier, it gets boring when lengthy and repetitive diatribes by those I ignore appear in quotes followed by a six word reply that only encourages the poster to continue trying to gore someone's ox. HF, I thoroughly enjoy reading your comments which are thoughtful and reflect a bright and far reaching mind that belongs on a higher plane. Your ox and mine can cover their own sixes:-)