Jump to content

P-G Filmsite, 1967 and 2018


Daniel Perez

Recommended Posts

SweatyYeti
2 hours ago, OldMort said:

^^^ Well that's the problem with much of the story Okie, there are so many contradictions.

 

Which account are we to believe? The one a week or two after the encounter or the one 25 years after the fact?

 

I wonder what Gimlin would say about it If asked today...

 

 

That's just what we need, Mort....a good, thorough questioning/interrogation of Bob Gimlin…...52 years after the fact. ;)  

 

Let's get the truth out of him...once and for all! 

 

Along that line, I'd like to repeat an idea I suggested several months ago....Bob Gimlin making a "Final Statement' video....recorded in total privacy....(not even witnessed by his wife)…..to be watched only in the event of an untimely/sudden death.

 

Such a statement would, effectively, be a "deathbed statement", regarding what the PGF actually shows. It would be effectively the same thing, since Bob would not be facing any other person while (potentially) "revealing the film to be a hoax".

 

Given Bob's age, I think it would be a good idea for a close friend of his to suggest this idea to him.....for the potential benefit of the film's legacy.

 

Bob could very well stand behind the film's legitimacy, in such a video....and, in the event of a sudden passing....(something which is not an uncommon occurrence)….the PGF would have both principals standing behind the film's legitimacy...to the very end. 

 

 

Okiefoot wrote:

Quote

He also told John since it was getting dark and they also wanted to take casts of the tracks and go into town since they didn't know if they got anything on the film, they called off the search. 

 

 

That statement of Bob's supports the notion of a later 'filming time', Okie.....significantly later than 1:00 to 1:30....(considering the fact that they were still on Daylight Savings Time, and the sun didn't even reach it's highest point in the sky until 1:00).

 

The sunlight beginning to fade before they had even casted the footprints speaks to a mid-afternoon filming time....exactly what the trees' shadows indicate.  

 

Edited by SweatyYeti
Link to post
Share on other sites
OkieFoot
Moderator
8 hours ago, OldMort said:

^^^ Well that's the problem with much of the story Okie, there are so many contradictions.

 

Which account are we to believe? The one a week or two after the encounter or the one 25 years after the fact?

 

I wonder what Gimlin would say about it If asked today...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's a matter of having to pick one over the other. This is an example of what I meant by the alligator and the swamp story; to me it's getting bogged down in a detail that really doesn't matter in the big picture. Does it really change anything if they spent 10 minutes trying to track Patty for 50 yards or 25 minutes and went 100 yards? That's why I mentioned the end result earlier; we know they stopped searching and later cast the tracks, went to Willow Creek and met with Al H., went to ship the film because they didn't know if they actually had anything on the film, and Al D. had the developed film two days later. Any differences between each man's account won't change any of this or what's on the film. That's why I don't think side details are worth focusing on because I don't see them leading anywhere. And I don't want to get bit by an alligator. ;)

Let me stress this is just how I look at all this; others may like the digging. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
OkieFoot
Moderator
8 hours ago, SweatyYeti said:

 

That's just what we need, Mort....a good, thorough questioning/interrogation of Bob Gimlin…...52 years after the fact. ;)  

 

Let's get the truth out of him...once and for all! 

 

Along that line, I'd like to repeat an idea I suggested several months ago....Bob Gimlin making a "Final Statement' video....recorded in total privacy....(not even witnessed by his wife)…..to be watched only in the event of an untimely/sudden death.

 

Such a statement would, effectively, be a "deathbed statement", regarding what the PGF actually shows. It would be effectively the same thing, since Bob would not be facing any other person while (potentially) "revealing the film to be a hoax".

 

Given Bob's age, I think it would be a good idea for a close friend of his to suggest this idea to him.....for the potential benefit of the film's legacy.

 

Bob could very well stand behind the film's legitimacy, in such a video....and, in the event of a sudden passing....(something which is not an uncommon occurrence)….the PGF would have both principals standing behind the film's legitimacy...to the very end. 

 

 

Okiefoot wrote:

 

 

That statement of Bob's supports the notion of a later 'filming time', Okie.....significantly later than 1:00 to 1:30....(considering the fact that they were still on Daylight Savings Time, and the sun didn't even reach it's highest point in the sky until 1:00).

 

The sunlight beginning to fade before they had even casted the footprints speaks to a mid-afternoon filming time....exactly what the trees' shadows indicate.  

 

 

I went back and re-read what Bob had said to John Green about the casting of the tracks and it does seem to point to a possible later filming time than maybe 1:00 to 1:30. After Bob told John they didn't have much luck trying to track Patty from where they last saw her, they decided it was getting late and he specifically mentioned to John about how in that area, at that time of year, the sun goes down about 3:30 or 4 o'clock. 

He also said by the time they got everything (including all their testing of depth comparisons) done with the casting,  that it was getting late and that it was almost dark by the time they got back to the truck and got the horses fed and tied up.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
SweatyYeti
5 hours ago, OkieFoot said:


I went back and re-read what Bob had said to John Green about the casting of the tracks and it does seem to point to a possible later filming time than maybe 1:00 to 1:30.

 

 

Just to emphasize the point, Okie....the time of the filming was most definitely well past 1:30. It's not just a possibility...it is a definite fact. 

 

Again...the short explanation....at 1:00 in the afternoon, on that date...the sun was at it's peak point in the sky/due south...and the shadows were running 'Due North'....(with the distance between trees TC-1 and TC-2's shadows being approx. 10 feet.

Those were the sunlight/shadow conditions at 1:00.

 

At the time of the filming, though....the distance between those two shadows had reduced to approx. 2 feet....(maybe a little greater distance, if Patty's height was over 7'.)

 

So, a little 'common sense figuring' would tell anyone that a significant amount of time had passed, for the shadows to have moved to that great of a degree.  :) 

 

 

Quote

After Bob told John they didn't have much luck trying to track Patty from where they last saw her, they decided it was getting late and he specifically mentioned to John about how in that area, at that time of year, the sun goes down about 3:30 or 4 o'clock. 

He also said by the time they got everything (including all their testing of depth comparisons) done with the casting,  that it was getting late and that it was almost dark by the time they got back to the truck and got the horses fed and tied up.

 

That seems just about right, for a filming time of about 3:00.

 

The time for dusk, in the nearby towns...(on Oct. 20th)....was around 7:00. In the mountains, it would have gotten dark a little earlier. But, in their particular location...on the sandbar....it looks like it wouldn't have gotten dark much earlier than in the local towns.

 

Here is another version of a Topo Map for the sandbar, and the surrounding area....(with some highlighting)...

 

Streufert_TopoMapDiagram1Labeled1.jpg

 

The "Bowling Alley" section of Bluff Creek is running 'due north/south'....so, we can see that to the southwest of the sandbar, there is quite a bit more additional open sandbar area. And that would be the direction where the sun was setting, in the later afternoon. 

 

So, it doesn't look to me like the sun would have disappeared behind tall trees until some time well after 3:00, or 3:30. Probably more like around 5:00. 

 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
BFF Donor
7 hours ago, OkieFoot said:

 

I went back and re-read what Bob had said to John Green about the casting of the tracks and it does seem to point to a possible later filming time than maybe 1:00 to 1:30. After Bob told John they didn't have much luck trying to track Patty from where they last saw her, they decided it was getting late and he specifically mentioned to John about how in that area, at that time of year, the sun goes down about 3:30 or 4 o'clock. 

He also said by the time they got everything (including all their testing of depth comparisons) done with the casting,  that it was getting late and that it was almost dark by the time they got back to the truck and got the horses fed and tied up.

 

 

 

 

Q:  does anyone in the 1960s own a watch 🙂

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
OkieFoot
Moderator

Sweaty, when I said "it does seem to point to a possible later filming time than 1:00 to 1:30.", I don't think that came out the way I meant it.

I was trying to say that what all Bob had said to John Green about following Patty, then casting the tracks and it getting late did seem to point to a later filming time than from some time past noon to about 1:30, which is probably what most people had in their minds. I know it's what I had always thought.

Sorry if I was confusing.

Bob talked a lot about it getting late and how it would get darker earlier in the mountains and how dark it was when they finished and got back to their truck.

 

Apparently one thing Bob forgot to mention to John Green was how much help they got from Bob Heironimus. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
OkieFoot
Moderator
30 minutes ago, Backdoc said:

 

 

Q:  does anyone in the 1960s own a watch 🙂

 

 

Bd, I know what you mean. I had thought to myself at times they apparently never  looked at their watch.

My guess would be in the excitement of encountering Patty and getting it on film, (he hoped) and in all that followed, they very likely never thought to look at their watches and see what time it was. I read an article about Roger's call to the newspaper reporter and it said he was still excited when he was trying to tell the reporter about the encounter, and this would have been hours after the encounter itself. 

After all, this wasn't an ordinary encounter with a large black bear or a big antlered mule deer; this was a one of a kind encounter.

I would think they probably looked at their watches occasionally but not often. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
SweatyYeti
5 hours ago, OkieFoot said:

Sweaty, when I said "it does seem to point to a possible later filming time than 1:00 to 1:30.", I don't think that came out the way I meant it.

I was trying to say that what all Bob had said to John Green about following Patty, then casting the tracks and it getting late did seem to point to a later filming time than from some time past noon to about 1:30, which is probably what most people had in their minds. I know it's what I had always thought.

Sorry if I was confusing.

Bob talked a lot about it getting late and how it would get darker earlier in the mountains and how dark it was when they finished and got back to their truck.

 

No problem, Okie. :) 

 

My response probably came across in the wrong way, also. I wasn't taking any major offense at what you had written...I just wanted to re-iterate the basic point of my analysis.....that the time of the filming was well past 1:30. 

 

It's interesting how the skeptics like to point out discrepancies between Bob Gimlin's and Roger Patterson's accounts of what happened...but yet, I've never seen a skeptic point-out a discrepancy between Bob G's....and Bob H's accounts. 

 

One major discrepancy, there.....is the time of the filming. Bob H, in one interview...said they left camp as early as around 10:30....while Bob G has said....(from your post, above)…."how dark it was when they finished and got back to their truck."

 

Seems like a slight discrepancy, in their accounts of the time the film was shot.  ;) 

 

Bob Gimlin's account, of course, is the one that is more consistent with what is seen in the film....(a later filming time).

 

 

Quote

Apparently one thing Bob forgot to mention to John Green was how much help they got from Bob Heironimus. ;)

 

Yep...he must have just forgotten that little detail. :drinks:  

Link to post
Share on other sites
OkieFoot
Moderator
7 hours ago, SweatyYeti said:

 

No problem, Okie. :) 

 

My response probably came across in the wrong way, also. I wasn't taking any major offense at what you had written...I just wanted to re-iterate the basic point of my analysis.....that the time of the filming was well past 1:30. 

 

It's interesting how the skeptics like to point out discrepancies between Bob Gimlin's and Roger Patterson's accounts of what happened...but yet, I've never seen a skeptic point-out a discrepancy between Bob G's....and Bob H's accounts. 

 

One major discrepancy, there.....is the time of the filming. Bob H, in one interview...said they left camp as early as around 10:30....while Bob G has said....(from your post, above)…."how dark it was when they finished and got back to their truck."

 

Seems like a slight discrepancy, in their accounts of the time the film was shot.  ;) 

 

Bob Gimlin's account, of course, is the one that is more consistent with what is seen in the film....(a later filming time).

 

 

 

Yep...he must have just forgotten that little detail. :drinks:  

 

I just think what discrepancies there are between Roger's and Bob's accounts isn't a matter of one must be right and one must be wrong; any digging isn't going to lead anywhere. Imagine if Roger's and Bob's stories years apart were almost identical with very few discrepancies. People are free to knock themselves out with these details but my main point is it won't lead anywhere and isn't going to change anything. As I said before; the film was shipped out, it got developed and Al D. had the film at his house on the 22nd.; nothing in the details will undo this. For me, the developed film that can be analyzed is the bottom line.

That's why I mention the alligator and the swamp story, it does have practical applications. 

 

If Bob H. said they left camp around 10:30 and since he only needed one take, couldn't they have done their casting and been in Willow Creek by 1:30 to 2:00 in the afternoon? ;)

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
OkieFoot
Moderator

Twist, I agree with you. I'm not aware of anyone on here now that gives Bob H. any credibilty. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
BFF Donor
10 hours ago, SweatyYeti said:

…."how dark it was when they finished and got back to their truck."

 

 

 

This makes me wonder about the famous pic of Roger standing by a tree holding a cast.  It appears on the cover of When Roger Met Patty.

 

As I recall, Bill Munns said something in WRMP about that pic being taken when it was dark by some other illumination as a powerful light source.  If it got dark earlier could this be the headlight of a truck/vehicle as the source of light with the darker woods around while Roger is holding the plaster prints?  

 

I guess what I am asking is the time would not have to be 11pm for this darkness as it got dark early.  Maybe this was shot that afternoon early evening that night of the encounter at say 6pm or 7pm of something.

Link to post
Share on other sites

But is there not an account from Al that they showed up shortly after he’d closed his store and was making dinner?   I believe it’s stated the store closed at 6pm. So shortly after is 6:30-7ish?   I believe Okie gave a pretty good rough timeline a page or so back.   What is it, almost 2.5 hours from the site to Al’s?     

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with SY that the filming time was later in the day. 

Below is a list of Patterson and Gimlin's activities (from their own accounts) immediately following their encounter and before they arrived in Willow Creek:

 

Film Patty.

Observe her departure and round up the horses and equipment.

Reload the camera and secure roll one.

Ascertain Patty's entry point onto the sandbar.

Scout around with a camera to see if there is another sasquatch in the area (according to Gimlin, from the now discredited interview of November 1967).

Find and examine the track way and take measurements.

Ride back to the campsite (which depending on either P or G is either 2 or 3 miles in each direction) and round up casting materials.

Ride back to the sandbar.

Cast prints and wait for them to dry.

Film the track way and various "stomp tests."

Attempt to track Patty, for 3 miles (according to Patterson).

Ride back to the sandbar.

Ride back to the campsite.

Feed, water, and secure the horses.

Pack up and head for civilization.

Drive 26 miles of windy dirt logging road to Highway 96.

Drive approx. 30 miles on 96 from logging road entry point.

Arrive at Willow Creek shortly after 6 and call Al Hodgson at his home.

 

In yet another twist to the story, according to Hodgson, when Patterson arrived at his store in Willow Creek shortly after 6 he told him that he had just got done mailing the film from the Eureka post office earlier that afternoon!  http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/interview-with-al-hodgson-bigfoot-elder.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

That is one busy day!  When I get time soon I’d like to start backtracking the timeline from Al’s account of them arriving at his place.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • gigantor featured this topic
  • gigantor locked and unlocked this topic
  • gigantor locked this topic
  • gigantor unlocked this topic
  • gigantor unfeatured this topic
×
×
  • Create New...