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Catmandoo
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^^^^^ NathanFooter:

 

How much do these camping trips cost?  How many years/decades has the BFRO  existed?  What ever happened to the 6 figures worth of thermal gear?   I do not see any results.  

Sasquatch find you, you do not find them and that simple primary fact can not be purchased.

Edited by Catmandoo
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NathanFooter

 

12 minutes ago, norseman said:

 

As I said, the information I had was old. As old as I have been a member here? Probably 10 years?

 

 

 

 LOL, now you got me checking to see how long I have been posting.   :sarcastichand:

 

 I just quoted from your post as your points covered the spectrum of sentiments many may currently hold to the BFRO, not trying to specifically point at you sir.             

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RedHawk454
1 hour ago, NathanFooter said:

 

 I work for the BFRO and have attended ( 2011 MI,  2012 MI UP, 2016 OR ) and now organize expeditions here in Washington state.    I can clear up a few opinions of what the policies are.

 

 The BFRO does not guide you out to gander at Sasquatch the way people do at animals in Yellowstone and nor do we put you on a pack-horse into the most remote locations where a tire may not have met the road in a decade to prepare for a 6 month grant program to be the next Jane G.  This is a common misconception of what we are about as an organization ( I am not speaking for ever single expedition or organizer, some members have their own code of ethics and conduct ). The BFRO as a whole provides a form of education on the entire subject and  how it relates to area ecology and history.  Folks have the opportunity to learn and connect with BFRO members for guidance on some of the points below.   

 

 We provide  attendees to accessible locations that repeatedly generate reports at particular times of the year, we put people in the best position possible to have an experience but we do not promise anything except research methodology and environmental education.  We give directed presentations on witness evaluation, reported behavior, field operations, implementation of thermal/audio technology and basic ecology.       We also offer classes on habitat evaluation, report documentation,  data mapping,  track casting, DNA collection and nighttime observation.  We offer perspective, knowledge, methods, tools and hands on experience so you can go out on your own and maximize your odds of encountering these animals.

 

 It is not impossible that hoaxing does take place on a small percentage of expeditions, both attendees and X-members have been caught in the past doing so. I can speak for the majority of the western US expeds as being honest and professional in nature, no monkey business.   Honestly it is getting more and more difficult to hoax in events like this because of thermal cameras and drones ( the BFRO has a number of units ).

 

 On the expeditions I have been a part of we did allow folks to have handguns as long as they abide by the laws of the region and do not make presence of it in group settings. That being said some organizers are exception as they personally feel the risk of something going wrong is high, having a bunch of folk running around in the dark all jazzed up over something popping in the bush could end badly.   On another note,  if an attendee was inclined to try and hoax something then there is a possibility they themselves could be hurt or worse if another person carrying reacts incorrectly. 

 

 I had never heard that attendees had to stay in their tents, that is new to me.  On the expeditions I have been a part of we actually encourage folks to stay out as late as 3 am to try and provoke interaction or possibly get something to follow groups back toward base-camp . We do setup folks in groups to be moved with a member or repeater, this is a safety policy so nobody is hurt or lost.

 

 Fishing is very different than looking for sasquatch,  you need to have a basic species knowledge, rod, tackle, a pole and a license to go fishing.   In the subject of Sasquatch it takes a great deal of time, skill, money and luck, there is still far to much that is unknown about this creature for anyone to really have any measurable degree of success.  This forum has nearly endless mentions of the challenges in Bigfoot that range from interest to population size.

 

 I am not going to argue that this is the best way to go about getting people involved or even reaching the goal, I do however believe it is the best way have at this time.  We have very little support in this subject to really make strides toward fishing guide success rates, most of the time and money going toward active members goes back into equipment, gas and projects related to conducting field research. I promise you, nobody is getting rich off of doing this.

 

 The reality is that the research community is maybe 5% the size that Facebook says it is and you can bet the bottom dollar that most of them started with the BFRO.

 

 

Anyone who knows how to disperse camp off US forest roads and make a minimal impact on the environment will have just as much success  if not more than a large group of people making a ruckus out in the woods.  I'm not suggesting any bigfoot group who orchestrates Sasquatch excursions does that but I've seen enough of these large camp groups out in the woods with me to know that in general, large camping groups are loud.

 

The general theory is that most eye witness encounters aka knowings happen when the sasquatch is pre occupied with something else and by luck, someone stumbles upon them.   

 

but lets be honest.  It's all conjecture.  

Edited by RedHawk454

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norseman
BFF Donor
Just now, NathanFooter said:

 

 

 LOL, now you got me checking to see how long I have been posting.   :sarcastichand:

 

 I just quoted from your post as your points covered the spectrum of sentiments many may currently hold to the BFRO, not trying to specifically point at you sir.             

 

No worries! Im glad to see you guys have changed it to the better!

 

Ive always respected you Nathan.

 

Good hunting!

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NathanFooter
5 minutes ago, Catmandoo said:

^^^^^ NathanFooter:

 

How much do these camping trips cost?  How many years/decades has the BFRO  existed?  What ever happened to the 6 figures worth of thermal gear?   I do not see any results.  

Sasquatch find you, you do not find them and that simple primary fact can not be purchased.

 

  Cost:  It ranges ( based on state and location ) from 500$ to 300$ per adult, some organizers have discounts for kids under 17 or they can come for free.  Repeaters ( folks who have attended expeds in the past ) can attend for half price.  

 

  BFRO Org: The organization has publicly existed since 1999 if I remember correctly, I do not know the date we began offering expeditions. 

 

  Thermal Gear: I honestly don't know where the 6 figure thermal investment number is listed but I can say that the BFRO has at least 4  functioning  units ( from what I have personally used ) 1 operational Raytheon R2D2 unit ( roof mounted DVR system ) and several L3 Thermal eye X200XP's ( these are old and do not have on-board recording ).  I asked about several years ago why our shared thermal equipment was lacking and i was told that a good deal of the units had been damaged or just entirely stopped functioning.  I am unsure if we Matt has invested in any updated thermal equipment beyond these units.   Many investigators end up buying their own night vision or thermal camera systems and allow attendees to use them.

 

  We do have videos, audio events, unknown nests and track castings that have not been publicly displayed as they are not strong enough to do anything but draw the same old questions and reservations. We do share some of this content on expeditions for those that are really interested. We also have MANY reports that never get published as they are part of private ongoing research locations or the witness has asked that we do not post the report.

 

  It is true that Sasquatch can find you but you can also find Sasquatch,  this is a simple and primary fact ( assuming you believe/know they exist ).  If you track reports, conduct area surveys,  locate primary game corridors and understand that you are normally perceived as a variable and or unapproachable then you can greatly manipulate the odds of having an encounter. 

 

 At this point it is a matter of opinion as to how much it changes but there is a notable difference in results.   I can offer an one such example,  we spent a long time examining reports to understand why some of the creatures  approached a witness rather than backing off.   In review we noted that the information suggests animals are more willing to approach  if you are using red light VS white light.   Red light has a very low eye impact on both you and your potential observers and helps encourage closer observation, now think back to all those reports where someone whipped out the flashlight and everything stopped.  For these creatures it is a balance of risk and reward ( higher primates operate on this line of thinking, visible in social dynamics ) and in a red light situation the risk is just a little bit lower because if the subject feels the need to leave rapidly it will not be as effected by light blindness and therefore able to escape this situation without having difficulties seeing an exit point. We have adopted many of these types of principles and tactics that have seemingly encouraged interaction or provoked subjects to come in closer and check us out. 

 

  We have members on this forum who have gone on expeditions with the BFRO who have taken the information they learned and put it into their field routines and had varying degrees of success.   

 

  If you have anything more specific to ask feel free to PM me.  

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RedHawk454

 

51 minutes ago, NathanFooter said:

 

  Cost:  It ranges ( based on state and location ) from 500$ to 300$ per adult, some organizers have discounts for kids under 17 or they can come for free.  Repeaters ( folks who have attended expeds in the past ) can attend for half price.  

 

  BFRO Org: The organization has publicly existed since 1999 if I remember correctly, I do not know the date we began offering expeditions. 

 

  Thermal Gear: I honestly don't know where the 6 figure thermal investment number is listed but I can say that the BFRO has at least 4  functioning  units ( from what I have personally used ) 1 operational Raytheon R2D2 unit ( roof mounted DVR system ) and several L3 Thermal eye X200XP's ( these are old and do not have on-board recording ).  I asked about several years ago why our shared thermal equipment was lacking and i was told that a good deal of the units had been damaged or just entirely stopped functioning.  I am unsure if we Matt has invested in any updated thermal equipment beyond these units.   Many investigators end up buying their own night vision or thermal camera systems and allow attendees to use them.

 

  We do have videos, audio events, unknown nests and track castings that have not been publicly displayed as they are not strong enough to do anything but draw the same old questions and reservations. We do share some of this content on expeditions for those that are really interested. We also have MANY reports that never get published as they are part of private ongoing research locations or the witness has asked that we do not post the report.

 

  It is true that Sasquatch can find you but you can also find Sasquatch,  this is a simple and primary fact ( assuming you believe/know they exist ).  If you track reports, conduct area surveys,  locate primary game corridors and understand that you are normally perceived as a variable and or unapproachable then you can greatly manipulate the odds of having an encounter. 

 

 At this point it is a matter of opinion as to how much it changes but there is a notable difference in results.   I can offer an one such example,  we spent a long time examining reports to understand why some of the creatures  approached a witness rather than backing off.   In review we noted that the information suggests animals are more willing to approach  if you are using red light VS white light.   Red light has a very low eye impact on both you and your potential observers and helps encourage closer observation, now think back to all those reports where someone whipped out the flashlight and everything stopped.  For these creatures it is a balance of risk and reward ( higher primates operate on this line of thinking, visible in social dynamics ) and in a red light situation the risk is just a little bit lower because if the subject feels the need to leave rapidly it will not be as effected by light blindness and therefore able to escape this situation without having difficulties seeing an exit point. We have adopted many of these types of principles and tactics that have seemingly encouraged interaction or provoked subjects to come in closer and check us out. 

 

  We have members on this forum who have gone on expeditions with the BFRO who have taken the information they learned and put it into their field routines and had varying degrees of success.   

 

  If you have anything more specific to ask feel free to PM me.  

 

I can’t believe people spend 300-500 $ to go camp in a national forest or national park.  If you have camping gear and a vehicle, you can do that on your own or with a group of friends for the cost of gas, food money, and your time.

 

im assuming most Sasquatch researchers and armchair YouTube Sasquatch researchers have camp gear and a vehicle though.

 

 

Thats a lot of money to spend to go camp at the end of the day.  

 

You provided some good tips on BiGFo0Ting but all that info can be found on YouTube.

 

 

Edited by RedHawk454

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gigantor
36 minutes ago, RedHawk454 said:

I can’t believe people spend 300-500 $ to go camp in a national forest or national park.  If you have camping gear and a vehicle, you can do that on your own or with a group of friends for the cost of gas, food money, and your time.

 

Thats a lot of money to spend to go camp at the end of the day.  

 

 

I can have all the tools and knowledge necessary to change the oil and rotate the tires in my Jeep, yet I pay a specialist to do it.

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NathanFooter
53 minutes ago, RedHawk454 said:

 

 

I can’t believe people spend 300-500 $ to go camp in a national forest or national park.  If you have camping gear and a vehicle, you can do that on your own or with a group of friends for the cost of gas, food money, and your time.

 

im assuming most Sasquatch researchers and armchair YouTube Sasquatch researchers have camp gear and a vehicle though.

 

 

Thats a lot of money to spend to go camp at the end of the day.  

 

You provided some good tips on BiGFo0Ting but all that info can be found on YouTube.

 

 

 

 I can certainly agree that there is a ton of information on youtube ( much of it from BFRO members ;) ) but this is a lot more than a glorified camping trip with a few screams and Bigfoot stories.   

 

 I can speak for our chapter of the BFRO and say that we are certainly not profit agents, this is laughable as we spend a lot of our own time and money to make these events happen.  If you factor in that we have done all the miles scouting, making road improvements, plotted the areas history ( including reports we go investigate prior ), provide all of the equipment and put on the classes/presentations then you will see that profit is not why we do this. 

 

 I did not intend to sidetrack the original topic, if anyone reading really wants to know more about our work feel free to start a new thread or send me an email/PM.   

Edited by NathanFooter
additional comment added.

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SWWASAS

I don't work on my cars either.   But the fact that the BFRO is running a guided expedition business in on Federal Land without the the necessary permits is what troubles me.     In Washington State a guide has to be licensed from the state too.        Some of this is so the guides know the law and what their responsibilities are to the client.  BFRO expedition members have been directed to lie to Forest Rangers and say it is a family reunion when asked what is going on.    

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norseman
BFF Donor
15 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

I don't work on my cars either.   But the fact that the BFRO is running a guided expedition business in on Federal Land without the the necessary permits is what troubles me.     In Washington State a guide has to be licensed from the state too.        Some of this is so the guides know the law and what their responsibilities are to the client.  BFRO expedition members have been directed to lie to Forest Rangers and say it is a family reunion when asked what is going on.    

 

Im not a big fan of the forest service.

 

But I could see legitimate guides in the area becoming irate.

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Twist

As a person that enjoys camping and does it semi regularly, people that come along that are not very experienced usually cost me money by not being properly prepared. I don’t mind but it’s a fact of life, 300 - 500 would not be terrible for a trip, if their licensed to do so.   

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RedHawk454
56 minutes ago, gigantor said:

 

I can have all the tools and knowledge necessary to change the oil and rotate the tires in my Jeep, yet I pay a specialist to do it.

 

 

I change my oil.  I have yet to rotate my tires on my Jeep.  I also have an old ‘86 Ranger with that horrible 2.9 v6.  that was a maintanemce nightmare.  I spent a lot of money to get it running.  If I knew how to change the water pump and radiator my mechanics bill would have been less.  Honestly if I knew I had to dump $3500 to make it road worthy I wouldn’t have bought it.  It had “hidden” mechanical issues.  One of the fuel tanks was rotted out.

Edited by RedHawk454

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RedHawk454
59 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

I don't work on my cars either.   But the fact that the BFRO is running a guided expedition business in on Federal Land without the the necessary permits is what troubles me.     In Washington State a guide has to be licensed from the state too.        Some of this is so the guides know the law and what their responsibilities are to the client.  BFRO expedition members have been directed to lie to Forest Rangers and say it is a family reunion when asked what is going on.    

 

 

The forest service considers stuff like that to be outfitting, which you know requires paperwork and registration and stuff

 

maybe bfro and it’s clientel were embarrassed to tell forest rangers they’re out looking for Mr. Foot?

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NCBFr
BFF Donor
6 hours ago, norseman said:

 

No worries! Im glad to see you guys have changed it to the better!

 

Ive always respected you Nathan.

 

Good hunting!

 

Anybody that chases a BF in to the brush should be respected, if not slightly feared:}

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ShadowBorn
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Redhawk

That's just the thing that most people that go on these trips do not have the knowledge. So they are willing to pay this fee to learn about these creatures. Sure I understand what Nathan is saying about the BFRO expeditions and I see nothing wrong with it like I did before.  As for my self I have often thought about it just to see how these expeditions are conducted and what their findings are. But I am pretty sure that I might not be invited again after them knowing what I am about on finding them. I respect Nathan as well and am not sure why he left Michigan when they are roaming right in our back yard.

 

But as for me and trying to stick with the theme of this thread " It's Time " a picture from any person from any habituator just will not do. The patty film that everyone has been studying for all these years  is just not enough to prove that these creatures are real.  All these you tube video's of these so called Bigfoots  are just not legit. Even if I or anyone else was to take a perfect photo of one it still will not prove that they are real. Heck look at all these so called DNA samples and what happen with them and still no confirmation. I can tell you that I had encounters with them and still to all of you they will still be stories even though they are true in my eyes and this goes with every other witnesses who have seen them.

 

The one thing and the only thing that will prove them real is a real dead body. This is the only thing that will prove them to exist and nothing else. One needs to be found dead or needs to be shot and I am sorry that I have to tell it like it is but this the honest truth. To those who do not want to hear this about shooting one well that is to bad. We either leave them alone and never know that they exist and never know the truth or we find the truth and do the deed and hope that we find one that has died of natural cause. I hope for the latter of the two. Just my opinion. 

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