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The Actual Developing Of The Pgf (3)

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Squatchy McSquatch
On 3/16/2019 at 4:51 PM, Huntster said:

 

To a weak mind like those on ISF, a sasquatch is the unknown monster of fairy tales, not a hominin or primate. Think of how Europeans thought of gorilla legends for thousands of years before 1850. They were monsters. To this day, Bigfoot movies are either documentaries describing the search for the truth (the mentality of those like us), or they're monster movies with sasquatches jumping out of the darkness and tearing people apart. Of course, we now also have the Rainbow Sasquatch phenomenon first proffered by Harry and the Hendersons in the 1990's where we now have sasquatches with the morals of Buddist monks who transcend time and space like angels.......even though they still look and smell like gorillas.

 

The religious aspect of the ISF mind is a phenomenon all in and of itself. If you want an education of God hatred, go check it out. Be careful discussing their god (James Randi). 

 

You’re just embarrassing yourself at this point.

 

I’d feel sorry for you...

 

But. I. Just. Don’t. Care. Enough.

 

Get a grip and control your posts, son. Pull yer pants up while you’re at it.

 

 

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gigantor
BFF Donor

I didn't have the time to post all of  Tirademan's articles. I was going through them and found a bunch like the one below. I posted them here.

 

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Twist

Good post, some of those prices are surprising.  You can get a thermos and lunchbox for 1.88 but a binder with a zipper is $6.00.  Film is all over the place, from under a buck to $10. 

Edited by Twist

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Bill

Back then, gas was 33 cents a gal. and cigarettes were 50 cents (2 quarters in a vending machine)

 

How I long for those days. . . .

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Wolfjewel
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Including the cigarettes?

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Backdoc

Those prices put in perspective how much penniless Roger offering Bob Heironimus $1,000 would really be in 1967.  Sure after Roger and Al cashed In Heironimus is going to still keep quiet even though he never got that $1,000 they promised him.   That makes no sense. 
 

My hope would be these ads point to some kind of development option we have not been aware of.   It’s not likely but worth trying.

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gigantor
BFF Donor

CA1966Processing.gifCA1965ProcessByTechnicolor.gif

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Twist

There is always hope that some new information pops up but I tend to believe both Old Mort and Ishira Knowing about all the K2 processing options available at the time.    Nothing has convinced me that there was some mystery secret lab.  
 

edit:  50 cent cigarettes must have been nice.   I quit due to the cost, still miss a good smoke now and then! 

Edited by Twist

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gigantor
BFF Donor
8 hours ago, Backdoc said:

My hope would be these ads point to some kind of development option we have not been aware of.   It’s not likely but worth trying.

 

What are the parameters we're looking for?

 

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Twist

A facility that can process K2 film specifically.   The challenge with that is the process used proprietary chemicals of Kodak.  Officially we only know of labs in Palo Alto and Seattle I believe.   

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Backdoc
4 hours ago, gigantor said:

 

What are the parameters we're looking for?

 

 

 

 I would start with the idea that an ad might say they " process KC film" (movie film)- a helpful thing to know- and yet that ad does not tell if that occurs on site or it is mailed it out. In this way, we need to have some caution if we find an ad saying things like, "Same day development available"  or  "Rush jobs? NO Problem" .  Any development of any film either occurs on site or off site.    I think of a medical clinic which might do lab work back in the old days.  Some things would be done on- site while some blood work might be gathered or drawn on site and then shipped off to a higher level lab.   That small clinic might advertise they do "Blood Work" but the ad would never tell us the rest of the story.  I would say at minimum an interesting ad or lead might at least lead to a further inquiry on the subject.  That helps all involved in the issue.  I lean on lesson life has taught me in that we often forget other options or don't always know all the options just the ones common to us.  The more we can know the better we can investigate.   

 

If an ad says;   OPEN NOON to 4pm M-W only  Then we pay that option little attention.

 

If an ad says,    Rush orders on Request   We might at least inquire as to what that means.

 

 

Doing a favor for whom?

 

In the complicated discussion about the development timeline  it seems to always center around some need for Roger or Al to have some industry connections.  That is, a favor is being done on behalf of Al or Roger.  After all, that is what Roger claimed.  That makes us think they have to be connected somehow.  Isn't it possible though the favor might be a request from a lab itself.  That is, you take a lab which Roger or Al might know.  They are an intake lab.  That is, they take the film and routinely ship it off.   I just wonder if some intake  Lab itself had connections to the 'big lab'?    They might have the leverage, connections, and so on to get the favor needed from the Big Lab.    If they know someone at the  'big lab' maybe one phone call finds  that, "Charlie is coming in on Sunday Morning.  I will see if he can do your film first.  Don't tell anyone. I don't want to get my buddy Charlie in trouble"   I  assume most standard things are done where a lab accepts a film, fills out some label or envelop and then ships it off.  I am just wondering if such a lab had connections.  Any favor was benefiting Roger or Al but was being made possible by someone else.   Crazy?  Probably.     Just part of my brain storming I guess.  In this way aslong as Al or Roger have the money the deeds done since they are paying someone else for their connections and not required to have the connections themselves.

Edited by Backdoc
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OldMort

^^^ These old ads are rather quaint aren't they?

 

Yes, you are quite correct in your conclusion that just because Payless Drugs or Savemart advertises that they provide Kodachrome processing, it doesn't mean they they have a Pako K-12 processor in their stock room! All of the major drug chains outsourced their work to large commercial labs such as the one that I used to work in. At one time we had a near monopoly of their business in the entire western states. At that time we also processed all film dropped of at west coast Safeway stores. In those days Safeway was our largest account and disaster ensued when we were undercut by a competitor and lost their business. If we received any Kodachrome it was outsourced to the Kodak lab across the Bay in Palo Alto. As far as your theory of "connections" between labs leading to "favors", forget about it. Kodak didn't do "favors," Kodak did whatever it pleased. Being closed on weekends was one of those non - "favors".  

The exception to the above commercial model would be some small independent camera stores who could do a limited amount of processing color as well as black and white print film, perhaps even Ektachrome but certainly not Kodachrome ll.

 

Let's talk about pre-paid mailers. Patterson was known to frequent Harvey Anderson's camera store in Yakima in order to get his films processed. If the film happened to be Kodachrome, Anderson would put Roger's exposed film in a pre-paid Kodak mailer and have it picked up by Kodak's vast network of couriers or simply place it in the mail himself with the camera store as the return address where it would be sent following processing in Palo Alto. It is unknown whether Patterson ever just skipped the middleman and mailed the film personally and had it returned to his home address. Perhaps it was quicker and more convenient if Harvey did it. Either way, it took a week or so.

As far as Technicolor NW in Seattle, we know from the late Mr. Ishihara that their business strategy was also based on pre-paid mailers. In fact it was Frank himself who developed and implemented that plan effectively.

 

I find the Payless ad above especially fascinating. A bit of background is necessary: Following the case of United States vs Eastman Kodak in 1954, the Kodak monopoly on Kodachrome processing was essentially over and pre-paid mailers to Kodak licensed labs finally became available. So going by the Payless ad in the Oakland Tribune, if in 1965 as a teenager in Oakland CA, (I actually lived very close to there) I had purchased a magazine of 8mm Kodachrome for $3.39 I wouldn't have to pay for the processing! It was processed for free by Technicolor (built into the cost)! Almost equally as good, If instead I had already purchased a magazine of Kodachrome 16mm  film elsewhere, I could still get it processed by Technicolor (thru Payless) at an astounding price of 99 cents! 

 

Which brings us to the topic at hand, the PGF.

So it seems quite possible that during that era Patterson had already pre-paid for the processing of his legendary film.

At worst, he was going to have to cough up a few minimal dollars. Yet the story goes that the film was shipped by plane to Yakima at no small expense and then processed somehow and somewhere in Washington. Since we know that Technicolor NW provided pre-paid processing and was open on Sunday 22, at 6:00pm, why not just take it in then and get the film processed for free or at most a couple of bucks and have it back by Monday morning?

Instead, we have a highly risky scenario where the lab is opened illicitly and against all protocols on Saturday the 21st and Roger's film is developed. Ishihara has stated that they would charge $400 just to open up the lab on a Saturday and that only happened one time.That is over $2,500 in today's money!

Free - 99 cents- $2,500! For what exactly?

$2,500 plus shipping expenses to find out if there was anything on the film?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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gigantor
BFF Donor
26 minutes ago, OldMort said:

Yet the story goes that the film was shipped by plane to Yakima at no small expense and then processed somehow and somewhere in Washington.

 

An embellishment perhaps?  A little spice to highlight the heroic feat...

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SweatyYeti

Backdoc wrote...(among other things)...

Quote

If they know someone at the  'big lab' maybe one phone call finds  that, "Charlie is coming in on Sunday Morning.  I will see if he can do your film first.  Don't tell anyone. I don't want to get my buddy Charlie in trouble"   I  assume most standard things are done where a lab accepts a film, fills out some label or envelop and then ships it off.  I am just wondering if such a lab had connections.  Any favor was benefiting Roger or Al but was being made possible by someone else.   Crazy?  Probably.     Just part of my brain storming I guess.  In this way as long as Al or Roger have the money the deeds done since they are paying someone else for their connections and not required to have the connections themselves.

 

 

Basically, Backdoc…..you are thinking too hard, and hoping too hard, on this particular aspect of the PGF.  

 

These ads are not going to lead to a solution as to where, and by whom the film was developed....because the film was not simply brought into a Lab that was open, and provided 'same day' or 'next day' development. That scenario does not account for why both Roger and Al took the film development details to their graves.

 

I personally think that the film development details will never be known....since the 2 people who knew those details are now gone.....and....Bob Gimlin has never revealed any details of it, either.....(and probably never will).  

 

 

If you'd like a solution, as to what the film shows....I would suggest checking out Patty's contracting/bulging calf muscle....and her funky 'arm proportion'.  And/or...other details on her bod. ;)

 

 

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MrSkwatch
On 1/14/2020 at 6:35 AM, Twist said:

There is always hope that some new information pops up but I tend to believe both Old Mort and Ishira Knowing about all the K2 processing options available at the time.    Nothing has convinced me that there was some mystery secret lab.  
 

edit:  50 cent cigarettes must have been nice.   I quit due to the cost, still miss a good smoke now and then! 

 

Maybe a sample of film that requires K2 processing is out there that shows it was developed somewhere other than a licensed establishment? Maybe an old adult film? I'm not sure why they would go through the trouble of acquiring the equipment but we are talking about people willing to break the law. Sorry if this was already brought up.

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