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Arvedis

Relict Hominiod Theory - Comparison with Russian Scientists

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NatFoot
33 minutes ago, Huntster said:

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

 

Agreed. But maybe that is why we are all here?

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Huntster

Prisoners?

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Incorrigible1

Of our own device.

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Twist
10 hours ago, hiflier said:

Does that mean that my frustrations aren't valid?

 

I don’t get to decide what are or are not reasons for you to be frustrated.  

 

I can tell you the lack of info out of the nesting site does not frustrate me.   

 

I can also also give my opinion, that I feel you get frustrated with most things BF related because, again, my opinion, things do not go the way you want them to. 

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hiflier
1 hour ago, Twist said:

I can also also give my opinion, that I feel you get frustrated with most things BF related because, again, my opinion, things do not go the way you want them to

 

Of course they don't, or I'd have nothing to say. But I have a brain and I at least give reasons behind my questions. Deductive reasoning says dots are not properly connected and obvious conclusions are not arrived at. I take the time to lay out my arguments which is the proper thing to do. It's tough being me when folks would rather comment on me that on the points I bring up. I find it a ridiculous waste of time because nothing anyone says will change how I approach this subject.

 

So are you admitting there is a lack of info regarding the nesting site? What makes you think so? Surely not because of anything I have said right? I mean you have your own mind and I would like to hear what your take is on things.....and this time....leave me out of it OKAY? You be surprised at how that will help you stay focused on the subject at hand.

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Twist

I think it’s possible based on the results that they have hit an impasse.  They may be trying to work around said impasse for all I know or they have thrown up their hands and quit.  IDK.   It’s their work not mine so I’ll just set that situation aside and wait for either more information to develop or move on if none comes.

 

You made the comment that they want YOU frustrated so that YOU stop looking, Not I.  

 

 

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hiflier
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Twist said:

You made the comment that they want YOU frustrated so that YOU stop looking, Not I.  

 

 

True. Could of said "we" but I don't speak for everyone and to say "we're frustrated wouldn't be either correct or proper. Doesn't mean I'm the only one,  maybe I am but I sure hope not.

 

1 hour ago, Twist said:

I think it’s possible based on the results that they have hit an impasse.  They may be trying to work around said impasse for all I know or they have thrown up their hands and quit.  IDK.   It’s their work not mine so I’ll just set that situation aside and wait for either more information to develop or move on if none comes.

 

It takes at least a year and half to two years for any paper to be peer reviewed. In any case I don't think the "quiet" in an impasse as much as playing things close to their chests for the sake of coming out with a paper and a documentary. Sorta leaves the community in the cold though. Whatever the reason, the details given to date need to present a consistent picture and they don't and that's the point. I thought it bore mentioning that the inconsistencies do lot allow for a nice neat conclusion of either bear OR Human. But since any talk of that is non-existent either from the Olympic Project, Dr. Meldrum, or Dr, Disotell I truly think a discussion SHOULD BE at least forthcoming. I mean it's easy to say yeah, we have bear DNA and Human DNA. But that is in no way a stated conclusion. No more so than stating that there was raccoon DNA. It is a statement only. None of the parties have announced a definitive conclusion. It would be good if they could break the silence and at least say they cannot conclude anything at this time? I see staying in touch as a common courtesy. They WON'T say it's Sasquatch of course which is the kind of objectivity that is proper and scientifically expected.  

Edited by hiflier

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Arvedis

This is probably buried on this forum somewhere but I'll repost it. Not sure the original source, found it on another forum.

 

From 2011. Those nutty Russians!

 


"Dr. Jeff Meldrum, professor of anatomy and anthropologist at Idaho State University, has spoken out about his recent excursion to Siberia to examine the existence of the Russian Yeti. Dr. Meldrum was a featured speaker at the Pennsylvania Bigfoot Conference in Youngwood, PA on Sunday, October 23. His conclusion: the yeti evidence was poor and he and other researchers were brought to Russia to add credibility to the local claim that yetis live in the area.

His presentation, entitled “The Russian Connection”, was not the listed topic on the schedule. He noted that he changed his topic upon advice from the conference organizers after the media storm that ensued regarding the announcement that “scientists were 95% convinced” that the Russian Yeti exists. Along with American scientist John Bindernagle, and researcher Ron Morehead, Meldrum was part of the team invited to Kemerovo region of Siberia to discuss the formation of a scientific commission to study the yeti. Led to believe there was significant scientific interest by the academic institutions in the area, Meldrum expressed his dismay when the press coverage was greater than the public and academic interactions.

In his talk, Meldrum described the players involved in the conference that began in Moscow and ended in Kemerovo. Specifically, he named Igor Burtsev, director of the International Centre of Hominology in Tashtagol, Kemerovo region. Burtsev already holds the belief that yetis exist in the area and are a Neanderthal relic population.

Meldrum showed photographs and described how the local Russian contingent greeted and treated the invitees with much pomp and ceremony but little scientific protocol.

As in scientific conferences, the attendees were taken on a field trip to a cave in the municipality of Tashtagol. Meldrum said he began to get concerned about the event when twisted and broken trees were rather conveniently located near the sites they visited. Reservations about what he had gotten himself into grew when he noticed saw cuts in the trees. The guides pointed to every bent and broken tree as marks of the yeti. From what Meldrum observed, the cave was not remote but apparently visited rather frequently with the trail maintained by the local municipality. The group was told the cave was a probable yeti habitation. Inside the cave, Meldrum notes that “right on cue”, isolated footprints and a “nest” were pointed out by their hosts.

Meldrum’s impression was that the “evidence” looked more like a staged event. Only right foot impressions were found, not a trackway as would be expected. His remark about the creature “playing hopscotch?” made it into the local press reports. The print had uncharacteristic pressure ridges that Meldrum described as consistent with that made from a rigid wooden imprint.

When a comment was made that the “nest” hardly looked used, Burtsev jumped into it himself for a photo opportunity, oblivious of any potential evidence that might have been there. A hair sample was collected in the cave but not from the nest.

After the excursion, the scientists convened to discuss what they had seen. The group was pressed by the locals to sign a consensus statement saying that what they saw constituted evidence that the Yeti exists in the region. Meldrum said that Valentin Sapunov, a literature professor from St Petersburg, was the one who drafted the “95% certain” language. Meldrum refused to sign noting that science doesn’t work by committee. Yet, the statement was given to press outlets and went viral.

Dr. Meldrum expressed that he felt the conference was “orchestrated” with “publicity stunts” to promote tourism for the region. He was dismayed and perhaps a bit angry that the Russian group “exploited his credibility” for their means.

In addition, Meldrum was put off by a Michigan woman, Robin Lynn Pfeifer, who claims that a family of Bigfoot was living on her 10 acre farm. He described how she, as a guest invited by Burtsev who believes her story, intruded into the scientific discussion. Meldrum admitted to confronting her over her lack of evidence for her outrageous story (which included her noting the creatures’ favorite food was blueberry bagels). Morehead was blunt, telling her that her kids were obviously playing a trick on her. Yet, disturbingly, Burtsev takes her account as typical in the U.S. and believes this kind of habituation was commonplace all over Russia as well!

During the trip, as a joke, Meldrum dropped a chocolate almond snack on the ground, pretending it was scat. Bindernagle, in on the joke, took a taste just to “be sure” of what it was. Ironically, Igor Burtsev knew it was a American food product and didn’t fall for the joke. One wonders why is he so uncritical of the Pfeifer story?

Therefore, the Russian Yeti spectacle was a planned, rehearsed event to promote tourism in the Kemerovo area. (See Come for the Yeti, stay for the skiing) Meldrum and other American scientists were burned by the promise of legitimate scientific evidence from a very non-scientific source. The Russian event is another notch of silliness in the Bigfoot story that ultimately erodes credibility in the subject and cryptozoology in general.

While trying to stay positive about the potential existence of large unknown hominids, Dr. Meldrum’s underlying message to the audience (of non-scientists) was his disgust over “amateurs” with no training in biology, natural history and evidence collection who were seen as experts represented the “scientific” side. It was obvious he was annoyed by this state of cryptozoology, echoing sentiment by a famous predecessor, the late Dr. Grover Krantz.

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NatFoot

How are they the same species?

 

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hiflier
1 hour ago, Arvedis said:

Dr. Meldrum expressed that he felt the conference was “orchestrated” with “publicity stunts” to promote tourism for the region

 

Hi, Arvedis, thanks. Point noted.

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Arvedis

Well, what this brief indulgence on the Russian side of things is revealing is that their research has not amounted to much. Yet, Meldrum is compelled to participate in it. What I find notable in his critique of the Russians is that his research is still linked to a Relict Homonid theory, which started a few decades ago by Russian BF theorists/scientists.

 

Where are those darn Russian trail cams to get their research moving in the right direction?

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Catmandoo
1 hour ago, Arvedis said:

During the trip, as a joke, Meldrum dropped a chocolate almond snack on the ground, pretending it was scat. Bindernagle, in on the joke, took a taste just to “be sure” of what it was. Ironically, Igor Burtsev knew it was a American food product and didn’t fall for the joke.

 

Better tactic is to drop a 'Baby Ruth' candy bar A La Caddyshack.  The 'floater' in the swimming pool looked convincing. I researched this and determined that 'Baby Ruth' candy bars do not float. Special effects people created a stunt double 'Baby Ruth' that floated.

 

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Huntster
On 7/12/2019 at 8:57 AM, Arvedis said:

..........In addition, Meldrum was put off by a Michigan woman, Robin Lynn Pfeifer, who claims that a family of Bigfoot was living on her 10 acre farm. He described how she, as a guest invited by Burtsev who believes her story, intruded into the scientific discussion. Meldrum admitted to confronting her over her lack of evidence for her outrageous story (which included her noting the creatures’ favorite food was blueberry bagels). Morehead was blunt, telling her that her kids were obviously playing a trick on her. Yet, disturbingly, Burtsev takes her account as typical in the U.S. and believes this kind of habituation was commonplace all over Russia as well...........

 

I have a couple questions:

 

1) Is Mr. Morehead a scientist? Was he part of the "scientific discussion"?

 

2) Did Mr. Morehead ever bring Dr. Meldrum to his own habituation site in tbe Sierras? If not, why not?

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Arvedis
33 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

I have a couple questions:

 

1) Is Mr. Morehead a scientist? Was he part of the "scientific discussion"?

 

2) Did Mr. Morehead ever bring Dr. Meldrum to his own habituation site in tbe Sierras? If not, why not?

 

Morehead is not a scientist. Not sure what he does for a living but he has gone bat guano crazy with his theories. Incomprehensible rambling.

 

Sounds like this Russia trip was some tourist event. Probably would have been useful for Meldrum to have sniffed that out beforehand. Long trip for no gain.

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Huntster
1 minute ago, Arvedis said:

Morehead is not a scientist. Not sure what he does for a living but he has gone bat guano crazy with his theories. Incomprehensible rambling...........Probably would have been useful for Meldrum to have sniffed that out beforehand...........

 

Indeed. Perhaps the trip was Meldrum's first chance to meet Morehead, and he wanted to ask him why he had never been invited to the camp? 

 

I remember reading Meldrum express his suspicions when he met Paul Freeman for the first time on a whim of his own, and then have Freeman ask him if he wanted to see some fresh tracks that he had found that very morning. But he found the tracks very convincing. I would have thought that Meldrum would have offered Freeman the moon if he would guide the kind professor to a sasquatch. 

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