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SweatyYeti

Patty's Mouth Moves

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SweatyYeti

Here are Frames 362 and 364...the Cibachrome versions....and Patty's mouth appears to move...

Ciba362C364AG11.gif

In Frame 362, Patty's mouth closes tighter, and her lower lip pulls-up.

This is Frame 362...with the contrast increased...

Frame362Contrast1.jpg

Also visible in that Frame is a line running from the corner of the nose, down to the edge of the lips. It becomes stronger in this frame...as normally happens, when the ends of the mouth/lips are pulled back, and upwards.

If Patty's mouth moves.....she's real. :)

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BobZenor

I thought I was going to disagree because of the supposed DDA, Owen Caddy mouth movement. I think you actually show mouth movement so I don't find myself disagreeing at all. I think it likely looks different in reality. She might be snarling there.

Edited by BobZenor
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Bill

I checked it out on my cibachromes, and it is curious. Did you also notice what may be eyebrow raising/lowering?

That's worth exploring too.

Bill

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Guest Kerchak

Interesting. I must admit I can only see a slight difference and it may be due to the different angle. I was sure there was another GIF done where the mouth appears to open slightly. Wasn't that one of yours too Sweaty?

I've always thought that Patty looks quite ticked off there. I don't blame Roger for staying where he did. :o

Edited by Kerchak

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dopelyrics

This may be a question that has been asked a thousand times - if so apologies - but do these images show genuine, unaltered details of Patty's face? I find it remarkable that we can get such detailed close-ups from a film that was shot 100 feet away or so. Have any of these images been re-touched in any way do we know?

I am undecided about the PGF. I really don't know what I'm looking at, but if these images show features that haven't been altered, then they are very compelling.

Best.

Lee

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Guest

Interesting. I must admit I can only see a slight difference and it may be due to the different angle. I was sure there was another GIF done where the mouth appears to open slightly. Wasn't that one of yours too Sweaty?

I've always thought that Patty looks quite ticked off there. I don't blame Roger for staying where he did. :o

That was probably the only wise move these cowboys took.

Yikes twice..

How 2 men could have this adventure, and then spend the entire rest of their lives defending themselves, and people are still dissing their film..which has still *never* been proven as a hoax. :blink:

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Guest HairyGreek

How 2 men could have this adventure, and then spend the entire rest of their lives defending themselves, and people are still dissing their film..which has still *never* been proven as a hoax. :blink:

Imagine how Peter and Paul felt! Sorry...couldn't resist. :rolleyes:

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xspider1

...and Patty's mouth appears to move...

I'd say you're right! And, I see what Bill means about the eyebrow area raising. Also, the rest of her face (cheek, jaw, etc.) seems to move quite naturally when she frowns :/. poor Patty! haha That's another really good observation and nice gif, Sweaty! :o

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dopelyrics

But it's only actual movement if it is an untouched image, isn't it? Anyone?

Cheers!

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Guest HairyGreek

But it's only actual movement if it is an untouched image, isn't it? Anyone?

Cheers!

There is a guy on here who is the master historian on this stuff and owns a great deal of copies of the footage. He would be the one to ask. I will post his name and you can ask and see from him. He would be a great reference for this convo.

EDIT: LOL...it's Bill and he is already in this thread and has weighed in above. :blush:

Edited by HairyGreek

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dopelyrics

Ah thanks HairyGreek. There has been so much stuff posted so I'm sure it has been covered. It's just trying to find it!

Cheers.

Lee

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Guest HairyGreek

Ah thanks HairyGreek. There has been so much stuff posted so I'm sure it has been covered. It's just trying to find it!

Cheers.

Lee

Not a problem! I know the feeling. He has two great websites at the bottom of his post in his sig. I would suggest checking both out.

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Guest

I was very interested in this thread, but saw that the mouth movement noted appeared to possibly be in sync with the overall head movement between frames.

So, I split the animation into separate frames, then stabilized the images on Patty's eyes. As you can see below, once the face is stabilized, the mouth movement is smaller, but still seems to be there - particularly the corners of the mouth drawing down slightly.

The mouth and brow movement could be there, or could be film imperfections or variation - Bill, you may know more about that than I do (because I really don't know anything about film!)

I would love to hear some opinions on this now that the face is stabilized.

3RDpn.gif

Edited by Harry

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Guest

Here is is slowed down.

Notice that there seems to be movement in the right cheek bone area that corresponds with the mouth corner. Both move down at the same time.

3RDpn2.gif

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Bill

Dopelyrics:

There are some issues with the cibachromes as to how much detail is actually reliable. Facial motions are on the border line of that reliability. That's why I said the motions were curious but didn't say they were conclusive.

The reliability of the cibachromes is something I've been quietly studying for some time now, but I have a few more pieces of the puzzle to locate and analyze before I can make any conclusions or publish a report piece on the issue.

So while I do encourage Sweati's work and do consider the topic worthy of further consideration, I can't personally consider the discussed facial motions conclusive as of yet.

Bill

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