vinchyfoot Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 Okay, now that we actually have some responses, my own take on them is a mixed bag. There are some Well Intentioned People in the group, but having a local chapter fairly nearby and I have been able to observe from a close distance. I agree with the Social piece of it, many of them locally are at best casual hikers I think along for the ride. The major issues I have are 1) Moneymaker who is in it for the money. It also doesn't help a friend of mine a years back asked in their FB group about how the Expeditions were handled tax wise. Instant ban. Apparently a sore subject. There are well intentioned folks in the group, and not being Pro Kill (more apathetic), can't speak to the cringe but I have seen some of the surprise to why folks squatch but aren't with "Them".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmknight Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 I know a few of their investigators. personally. All but one is a stand-up guy. Yes, Moneymaker is MM's real family name. I believe his roots go back to Germany. I've been on a couple of their expeditions, already, but probably won't be going on too many more. I was their "investigator" for China, when I lived and worked there, but since I came back to Canada, I wasn't needed any more so was quietly dropped from the rolls. Also, since I didn't host any expeditions (too many BFRO investigators in this neck of the woods), I was disqualified from being one. Moneymaker offered to put me back on as an investigator if I paid the organization (him) US $100. I told him it wasn't worth it. I know of a couple of their investigators that were dropped as admins from the Facebook page due to MM wanting to take over running it. There was a bit of a spat, and a few of them left the organization over it. It seems he wasn't happy with the number of skoftics and riffraff, and the admins weren't doing a good enough job of getting rid of them, so he took it over. Ironically, it seems that there are more of them now without the admins to clean up. The Blue Forum was dropped after they lost the hosting server (company closed up shop without telling anyone), in favour of a Facebook presence. Big mistake IMO. Like others here, I feel their database is top-notch, however, in the last couple of months, the only one investigating any of the reports and posting them, has been Moneymaker. Is this indicative of rats leaving a burning ship? I don't know, but over 95% of the reports are investigated solely by MM. There have been a couple of Carter Bushchart (sp?) reports, but that's about it. It's a good thing the organization has a benefactor with deep pockets, because I feel that if he ever left and dropped the funding, the BFRO would disappear faster than a torpedoed dinghy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, hiflier said: BFRO? A pipeline to the feds. 4 hours ago, vinchyfoot said: Interesting, care to elaborate? Sure, V. Like with MUFON (Mutual UFO Network), government gets first crack at anything sensitive before it gets to the public. And it is my opinion that the BFRO also gives first crack at sensitive data to the government. It is therefore my further opinion that what we get has been "sanitized" along with other Bigfoot studies and resources. This is in order to keep knowledge and truth from the public and in the hands of stakeholders like government and corporations whose revenue and wealth management is most important above all else. My opinion but it's based on a lot of logical deduction regarding habitat surveillance capabilities and many other things- such as science's total hands off attitude. WHY? Because public disclosure of the Sasquatch's existence would be a nightmare scenario that would affect the flow of money in a big way. The BFRO is the big dog on the BF data collection block and so if I were government I would give them an offer they couldn't refuse....even if they wanted to. People have discussed certain undesirable outcomes, both personally and professionally, for anyone out to prove the creature's existence via physically collected evidence- such as a body or body part, and tries to get that evidence to science. Subsequently there's a lot of fear here in even confronting agencies to tell the truth. 99% of the public will submit their witness reports to the BFRO because of it's exposure just about everywhere in the media. How much of that exposure came in the form free advertising in the interest of keeping the public informed? There IS no interest in keeping the public informed. There IS interest, however, in making sure that information is channeled and controlled for the purposed of keeping the public off balance and in the dark. It's what governments do. So government was never about to let the BFRO run loose with their data. We only get the watered down version of things coupled with the neither-confirm-nor-deny-just-ignore answer to the question of Bigfoots existence. The BFRO? Neither confirm nor deny. There's no difference between the two, government OR the BFRO. All the TV shows were designed to do was drive the public to the BFRO. My opinion..... Edited August 4, 2020 by hiflier 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinchyfoot Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, hiflier said: Sure, V. Like with MUFON (Mutual UFO Network), government gets first crack at anything sensitive before it gets to the public. And it is my opinion that the BFRO also gives first crack at sensitive data to the government. It is therefore my further opinion that what we get has been "sanitized" along with other Bigfoot studies and resources. This is in order to keep knowledge and truth from the public and in the hands of stakeholders like government and corporations whose revenue and wealth management is most important above all else. My opinion but it's based on a lot of logical deduction regarding habitat surveillance capabilities and many other things- such as science's total hands off attitude. WHY? Because public disclosure of the Sasquatch's existence would be a nightmare scenario that would affect the flow of money in a big way. The BFRO is the big dog on the BF data collection block and so if I were government I would give them an offer they couldn't refuse....even if they wanted to. People have discussed certain undesirable outcomes, both personally and professionally, for anyone out to prove the creature's existence via physically collected evidence- such as a body or body part, and tries to get that evidence to science. Subsequently there's a lot of fear here in even confronting agencies to tell the truth. 99% of the public will submit their witness reports to the BFRO because of it's exposure just about everywhere in the media. How much of that exposure came in the form free advertising in the interest of keeping the public informed? There IS no interest in keeping the public informed. There IS interest, however, in making sure that information is channeled and controlled for the purposed of keeping the public off balance and in the dark. It's what governments do. So government was never about to let the BFRO run loose with their data. We only get the watered down version of things coupled with the neither-confirm-nor-deny-just-ignore answer to the question of Bigfoots existence. The BFRO? Neither confirm nor deny. There's no difference between the two, government OR the BFRO. All the TV shows were designed to do was drive the public to the BFRO. My opinion..... Okay, interesting take, mine is a little simpler I guess although not nessicarily in conflict with yours. I think it's simply a money grab with them. 300 bucks per person per expedition per state, is a lot of money. That said, controlling the narrative is part of their schtick imo, because they are the "Only Scientific Outfit doing Bigfoot", so no woo, but, aggressive bigfoots are also bad for business. The narrative control is likely part of it for whichever reason, but from some things I've heard I don't think they're that sophisticated. Two folks I know started out with the BFRO and left the expedition because of the one holding it getting drunk while there and being abusive and profane. Interestingly just recently on FB though, the head man himself said clearly all the "negative nancies" in the group needed to drink the kool aid or leave the group. A day later the local chapter did same. That, I found cringey, a wee bit cultish even. 3 hours ago, cmknight said: I know a few of their investigators. personally. All but one is a stand-up guy. Yes, Moneymaker is MM's real family name. I believe his roots go back to Germany. I've been on a couple of their expeditions, already, but probably won't be going on too many more. I was their "investigator" for China, when I lived and worked there, but since I came back to Canada, I wasn't needed any more so was quietly dropped from the rolls. Also, since I didn't host any expeditions (too many BFRO investigators in this neck of the woods), I was disqualified from being one. Moneymaker offered to put me back on as an investigator if I paid the organization (him) US $100. I told him it wasn't worth it. I know of a couple of their investigators that were dropped as admins from the Facebook page due to MM wanting to take over running it. There was a bit of a spat, and a few of them left the organization over it. It seems he wasn't happy with the number of skoftics and riffraff, and the admins weren't doing a good enough job of getting rid of them, so he took it over. Ironically, it seems that there are more of them now without the admins to clean up. The Blue Forum was dropped after they lost the hosting server (company closed up shop without telling anyone), in favour of a Facebook presence. Big mistake IMO. Like others here, I feel their database is top-notch, however, in the last couple of months, the only one investigating any of the reports and posting them, has been Moneymaker. Is this indicative of rats leaving a burning ship? I don't know, but over 95% of the reports are investigated solely by MM. There have been a couple of Carter Bushchart (sp?) reports, but that's about it. It's a good thing the organization has a benefactor with deep pockets, because I feel that if he ever left and dropped the funding, the BFRO would disappear faster than a torpedoed dinghy. If you're talking about Wally, the word is that he did distance himself from Moneymaker who the rumor had substance issues draining Wally's account, read that in a Book I bought a year or so ago. Edited August 4, 2020 by vinchyfoot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfooter Posted August 4, 2020 Admin Share Posted August 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, vinchyfoot said: 300 bucks per person per expedition per state, is a lot of money. Thought it was more like $400 or so now? That was always a sore spot with me in that the money only got you the opportunity to rub shoulders with the group at their "special place". You were still on the hook for travel, shelter, food, and any other supplies that you needed. 15 minutes ago, vinchyfoot said: ....because they are the "Only Scientific Outfit doing Bigfoot",.... That always struck me as arrogant and a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatFoot Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 What's your point here? Bash the BFRO and spread internet rumors about donors and substance abuse problems? If you've got a vendetta, just be forward about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) Yeah, there's enough acrimony out there, in bigfoot-land, to go around. We don't need to contribute. JMHO Edited August 4, 2020 by Incorrigible1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinchyfoot Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 47 minutes ago, NatFoot said: What's your point here? Bash the BFRO and spread internet rumors about donors and substance abuse problems? If you've got a vendetta, just be forward about it. No vendetta, curious of other's experiences with them. Are you a member? The "rumors" have been around for some time, there are good members as others have also said, the main issues seem to start at the top. If you want to be a Moneymaker fanboy just be forward about it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted August 4, 2020 Admin Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 minute ago, vinchyfoot said: The "rumors" have been around for some time, there are good members as others have also said, the main issues seem to start at the top. What are the "issues"? that they make money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatFoot Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, vinchyfoot said: No vendetta, curious of other's experiences with them. Are you a member? The "rumors" have been around for some time, there are good members as others have also said, the main issues seem to start at the top. If you want to be a Moneymaker fanboy just be forward about it. I'm not a member of the BFRO and have never reached out to them. Only interaction would be with folks who post here and might be members, but I'm not even sure who all of those are. I thought Finding Bigfoot was a joke and they didn't really put themselves in the best light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinchyfoot Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, gigantor said: What are the "issues"? that they make money? That the profit motive clouds their "research". Scientific Organization, or Business. Not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted August 4, 2020 Admin Share Posted August 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, vinchyfoot said: That the profit motive clouds their "research". Scientific Organization, or Business. Not the same thing. How are they supposed to pay for the research then? All "scientific organizations" get paid one way or another and most have an agenda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRockBigfoot Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 To me, paying that much seems ridiculous. However, even though it's not my cup of tea, these are adults and they can make their own decisions and spend their own money.. If they want to get involved with the BFRO then more power to them. I find Moneymaker a bit abrasive, but let's be honest here. They are the biggest game in town. They're going to spur a lot of jealousy. I was critical in the past about their pay for play, but I honestly don't know how much money they make and what they do with it. Nor is it any of my business. Again, I don't know MM and I am definitely not a fanboy, but what's with the allegations of substance abuse? How's that relevant to the organization? Sounds like sour grapes and character assassination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiiawiwb Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) I have no problem, whatsoever, with the BFRO charging whatever they can get for allowing someone to participate in an expedition. If the BFRO could charge $5,000 per person, I would applaud them. There are no victims here, there are only winners. There were those who provided a service and those who were willing to hand over their hard-earned money for that service. Amen. Last time I checked my accounting records, no one has ever paid me a nickel to take them on an expedition. Kudos to the BFRO. For purposes of full disclosure....I am not a member of BFRO and have never met anyone who is. Edited August 4, 2020 by wiiawiwb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted August 4, 2020 Admin Share Posted August 4, 2020 There are members here who are doing research now because they attended a BFRO expedition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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