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The Argosy Stills

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Guest LAL

Argosycolor.jpgArgosyBW.jpgAgosy1968.jpg

These are the pictures in the February, 1968, issue of Argosy. Dr. Krantz' initial impression was that it looked like a guy in a gorilla suit. In 1969 he obtained a copy of the film and was impressed by the movement. Later he apparently convinced Bernard Heuvelmans he (Heuvelmans) had been wrong about the PGF. That part didn't make it to Bayanov's book. ;)

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bipedalist
BFF Patron

Can you recall the headline story in that particular issue of Argosy? One of the other months had California's Abominable Snowman as a headline I think....I have that issue stored away somewhere....probably where my LMS DVD is.....geesh?! :(

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Guest

What is your source on the tidbit about convincing Heuvelmans about the authenticity? Hate to admit I haven't read anything by Bayanov (other than a paper or two over at BF Encounters), though I know I need to. Russians were (are?) way ahead of their time in Hominology, from all I can tell.

edit for spelling Heuvelmans, which I probably still spelled wrong...

Edited by notgiganto

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Guest Dudlow
Russians were (are?) way ahead of their time in Hominology, from all I can tell.

B) The Russian research efforts were ahead briefly back in the '50s and '60s but when the Soviet Union finally came apart (1988-89?) they were almost shut down due to funding shortages. They have pretty much been on their own financially since that time. But even in the '50s and '60s their accedited academic researchers were marginalized and stigmatized by their universities; similar to what Dr. Meldrum has had to endure. But in the Russian case, most of the research publications were self funded by the participants themselves. Most have not been translated into English.

North American research has expanded so much since the '90s that we are probably far ahead of the Russians by now, at least in terms of the hundreds of non-professionals who hit the field each summer looking for BF evidence.

- Dudlow

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SweatyYeti

Excellent scans of those images, Lu... ;) Thanks for posting them! :)

The main picture in the Argosy article is Frame 353....not F352.

So, you know what that called for....putting that Frame together with Frame 352.....to see what 'moves'...

Frame352Frame353AG4.gif

Patty's left wrist bends....exactly where it should be bending.

And the contour of the lower-back/top of the butt appears to change, also.

And....last but not least....maybe a little movement of the mouth.

Edited by SweatyYeti

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bipedalist
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Is that a finger curl I detect or maybe thumb movement? :huh:

Something going on with one of the right breast too....or is that just shadow?

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SweatyYeti

Is that a finger curl I detect or maybe thumb movement? :huh:

Something going on with one of the right breast too....or is that just shadow?

Possibly, BP....I'll make another animated-gif, lining-up her left arm in each Frame...to get a better look at that.

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Guest LAL

Can you recall the headline story in that particular issue of Argosy? One of the other months had California's Abominable Snowman as a headline I think....I have that issue stored away

Same one - California's Abominable Snowman. There's a follow up with a boat on the cover, I think - I have the issue but haven't taken it out of the plastic wrapper yet. (Thanks to Sweaty Yeti for turning me on to old Argosy mags on eBay.)

My source on Heuvelmans, notgiganto, is Searching for Sasquatch: Crackpots, Eggheads, and Cryptozoology (Palgrave Studies in the History of Science and Technology).

Excellent (if expensive) little book, Did you know Ivan Sanderson was incensed at True editors for distorting his 1959 article on the Crew tracks? He warned Tom Slick about Ray Wallace (who was on Slick's California expedition). Sanderson considered Ray Wallace a "menace"? He even threatened to sue him.

Dr. Krantz got interested in the Yeti while still an undergrad in the 50s. So did many anthropologists; they just weren't very public about it.

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Guest

Same one - California's Abominable Snowman. There's a follow up with a boat on the cover, I think - I have the issue but haven't taken it out of the plastic wrapper yet. (Thanks to Sweaty Yeti for turning me on to old Argosy mags on eBay.)

My source on Heuvelmans, notgiganto, is Searching for Sasquatch: Crackpots, Eggheads, and Cryptozoology (Palgrave Studies in the History of Science and Technology).

Excellent (if expensive) little book, Did you know Ivan Sanderson was incensed at True editors for distorting his 1959 article on the Crew tracks? He warned Tom Slick about Ray Wallace (who was on Slick's California expedition). Sanderson considered Ray Wallace a "menace"? He even threatened to sue him.

Dr. Krantz got interested in the Yeti while still an undergrad in the 50s. So did many anthropologists; they just weren't very public about it.

Thanks LAL,

Ok, ya sold me! That WILL be my next BF book purchase(even if I have to save a little...work and paltry salary get in the way of my passions...)

LAL, are you sure you are not affiliated with Amazon or Brian Regal? ;) I might also need to cruise ebay for Argosy copies....I wonder how much of a following the phenomenon really got among anthropologists...bigfootery is so passed off as crackpot, but how many old and young anthropologists/biologists/zoologists out there cut their teeth on Sanderson, even if they might not admit it now?

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bipedalist
BFF Patron
There's a follow up with a boat on the cover, I think - I have the issue but haven't taken it out of the plastic wrapper yet.

I've got the followup issue then, guess I've got something to shoot for.

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Guest LAL

No commissions from Amazon, sadly. I do have a code for $1 off on an MP download I'll probably never use. I think they should give me an award for the most ballet DVDs ordered in a single month but all they're offering me is 6 months interest free if I get their credit card.

Bayanov's books are a good complement. I'll be rereading parts in light of what Regal had to say about Krantz. He's remarkably objective. I haven't detected a sneer or a snicker yet.

<fixed typo>

Edited by LAL

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Guest Kerchak

Great scans LAL. Thanks a lot for sharing them.

What is your source on the tidbit about convincing Heuvelmans about the authenticity?

Heuvelmans long thought Patty was a fake and, as president of the International Society of Crytozoology, refused to give the PGF the attention it deserved. Heuvelmans insisted the Tim Dinsdale Loch Ness footage was more convincing.

Personally I think this stems from jealously and Heuvelmans being bummed that his Minnesota Iceman never got the recognition he was seeking. The MIM 'find' never really took off and the MIM kind of fizzled away and was forgotten while the PGF lived on and flourished and was still the focus of much attention decades later. This must have hurt Heuvelmans considerably.

It's ironic that Heuvelmans thought the PGF was a hoax when he thought the MIM was real. I'd say it was the other way around. But then Heuvelmans was the guy who came up with almost 101 different varieties of sea serpent so it shows you his mind thinking. :blink:

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Guest parnassus

Great scans LAL. Thanks a lot for sharing them.

Heuvelmans long thought Patty was a fake and, as president of the International Society of Crytozoology, refused to give the PGF the attention it deserved. Heuvelmans insisted the Tim Dinsdale Loch Ness footage was more convincing.

.....

It's ironic that Heuvelmans thought the PGF was a hoax when he thought the MIM was real. I'd say it was the other way around. But then Heuvelmans was the guy who came up with almost 101 different varieties of sea serpent so it shows you his mind thinking. :blink:

Of course, Sanderson's mind wasn't much different, as he wrote a book on underwater UFOs.

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Guest LAL

From Searching For Sasquatch, pages 99 &100:

...In a set of notes from the early '70s Krantz explains his steps to conversion:

Fall 1964. First trip to Bluff Creek area, No. Calif. Other trips over much of the next two years. Neanderthal theory prominent, but uncertain. Read Sanderson.

Spring, 1967. Patterson's film still shot. Still Neander.

Spring, 1969. First jaunts from Pullman seeking evidence.

Saw Patterson's film.

Got Green's book. Gigantopithecus or Australo

Summer, 1969. First interview with witness at Hoquiam.

Winter, 1969 - 70. Colville [bossburg] incident. 67

Though initially coming to the anomalous primate question because of his interest in Neanderthals, Krantz discarded the idea that Sasquatch might be a relic caveman. He explained his hesitation on the subject to Bernard Heuvelmans. The father of cryptozoology, who believed the Patterson film a hoax , hesitated in his original assessment of the film because of Krantz' analysis. After discussions with Krantz, the Frenchman wondered if he had not been wrong about the nature of the celebrated footage after all. " Nobody understands better than I, " Heuvelmans told Krantz, " your reluctance to accept the Neanderthal hypothesis." Krantz' work also helped convince Heuvelmans that the Gigatnopithecus theory he had originally assigned to the origins of the Yeti, held for Bigfoot as well. Nothing, however, could shake Heuvelmans's contention that, as far as the Minnesota Iceman was concerned, " there cannot be the sightest doubt that this is a Neanderthal Man of a very specialized type." 68

67. Manuscript titled "History" folder 0344, box 7, NAA.

68. Bernard Heuvelmans to GSK, September 13, 1974, folder 0340, box 7, NAA.

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Guest LAL

Ivan Sanderson made a living writing. He wrote about subjects people were interested in. I saw a show on History that dealt with underwater UFOs. Does this mean I can't trust their shows on ancient Rome?

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