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Bill

Think Like A Hoaxer

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Patterson-Gimlin
1 hour ago, Bill said:

I don't offer any appraisal of footprint casts, but the PGF is real, and the trackway filmed is real. Any rigorous analysis will support this conclusion, to the highest certainty photographic evidence can achieve.

I understand your position of course and appreciate and admire your efforts. 

The last thing you said is exactly why only a specimen will provide absolute certainty. 

49 minutes ago, PBeaton said:

My opinion, from talkin' to Bob about it/the tracks/casts, this is Roger makin' a cast of the left foot from the film sight October 20th 1967. 

 

If you look at the ground, that dark area turns off towards the upper right, my opinion, the darkness could likely be caused by the moister in a lower in elevation. That may have been helpful in capturing a decent print, thus Roger cast it.

 

It's also my opinion, the sasquatch filmed was walkin' towards the right.

 

The tracks cast by Roger as told to me by Bob, correlate to what Richard Henry described in his diagram/map of the PGF site, as well as the photos from George Haas at the film site of John an Jim studyin' the remains of the casts/tracks.

 

Bob told me he never filmed Roger makin' a demonstration cast.  

 

I believe the casts were made just to the left of this clip.

giphy.gif

 

 

Richard Henry PGF Site, BFT 11-2004 (2).jpg

Thanks Pat for that awesome information. How do you explain only one decent track worth casting in the lomey type soil in that particular area?

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PBeaton
Posted (edited)

See the source image

Patterson-Gimlin,

You're welcome. My guess, the next track is bein' obscured by Roger as I believe she is walkin' to the right.

Look how poor the first track shows up compared to the second track in the trackway composite.

 

Pat...

 

 

 

TrackwaycompositeWIP.jpg

Edited by PBeaton

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hiflier
Posted (edited)

Also.....in the film clip shown one can see that when Roger turns toward Gimlin he is showing his unshaven face. It says that the sun and his face angle when looking down makes him appear clean shaven. Also the sun angle is lower as expected on the photos of Roger later in the day holding the casts. Again the sun angle plays a part in that it makes his "beard" look darker which, with a few more hours, of growth would also make sense.

Edited by hiflier

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Backdoc
10 hours ago, PBeaton said:

 

Bob told me he never filmed Roger makin' a demonstration cast.  

 

 

What are the things Bob did claim to film?   Obviously the PGF encounter segment where they come upon Patty is said to be filmed by Roger.   

 

What are the things said to have been filmed by Bob Gimlin on either reel?  

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PBeaton
Posted (edited)

hiflier,

 

It's my understandin'/belief the images of Roger with the two casts was filmed after their return from Bluff Creek. 

 

 

Backdoc,

 

I had asked Bob about the images of Roger pourin the cast because there was speculation it was a "practice or demonstration" piece, Bob said he never filmed Roger makin' a practice/demo cast.

There are images some here have seen, that shows Roger pouring a cast into a track he made for his documentary. I've not seen the film, but I've seen stills, Roger looks to pretty much the same, but is wearin' his jacket, pourin' an showin' the cast on a rocky, grassy an hilly landscape, looks nothin' like the Bluff Creek as we've seen.

Krantz had mentioned in his book, that Roger had made a practice cast an filmed it, a few days later Roger filmed the PGF. This was incorrect, the footage of Roger makin' that cast was filmed 3-4 months prior to Bluff Creek, east of Yakima.   

 

Pat...

Edited by PBeaton
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Backdoc

Cover your tracks.  

 

If a person tries to create a hoax do they literally cover their tracks?  Bob Gimlin states he asked Al H. at the general store for some boxes to cover the tracks since it might rain.  Bob states he took several boxes.  Al H had confirmed this did take place I have read.  This suggests to me a hoax is unlikely.  Why does a hoaxer want to preserve the tracks?   It would seem if tracks were faked or if the tracks made by a man in a suit were blurred out by rain it would help cover up a hoax.  That would make it seem more real but wash away evidence of fakery.

 

Gimlin did take the boxes with him and asked for the boxes.  That was Gimlin's intent to cover the tracks so other people could see them since at that time, "didn't know if we had anything on that film".   It is true Gimlin never ended up using the boxes/  cardboard but that is not the point.  He intended to.  In this video Gimlin seems to be saying the tracks made by plaster or viewed by others were in good condition because of Gimlin's claimed action.  That is, covering the tracks with pieces of bark.

 

 

 

See about at the 33 min mark at the very end on his statement about covering the tracks.

At the 30 min mark Bob Gimlin talks about asking for boxes.

 

Doesn't an effort to cover the tracks highly suggest a real filming event?

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OldMort

Obviously there is no way to verify if Gimlin's story about gathering the boxes ever actually occurred or not.

 

There are references to the weather in Willow Creek being pleasant under a full moon and clear skies on the night of October 20. (Hodgson IIRC). 

 

Perhaps old Apache trackers have an innate sense that alerts them to subtle changes in the weather . :)

 

Seriously - Its hard to know how precise National Weather Service models were in those early "tech" days.

 

Gimlin says a lot of things in his recent "interviews."

 

A few times now he has stated that the footage was filmed on a Saturday.

 

In other news, Gimlin claims that his old buddy Bob H is now confined to a wheelchair and that he wishes him well.

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norseman
1 hour ago, OldMort said:

Obviously there is no way to verify if Gimlin's story about gathering the boxes ever actually occurred or not.

 

There are references to the weather in Willow Creek being pleasant under a full moon and clear skies on the night of October 20. (Hodgson IIRC). 

 

Perhaps old Apache trackers have an innate sense that alerts them to subtle changes in the weather . :)

 

Seriously - Its hard to know how precise National Weather Service models were in those early "tech" days.

 

Gimlin says a lot of things in his recent "interviews."

 

A few times now he has stated that the footage was filmed on a Saturday.

 

In other news, Gimlin claims that his old buddy Bob H is now confined to a wheelchair and that he wishes him well.

 

He is also what, in his 80’s? My 74 year old mother n law lives in my basement and doesn’t know her own name.

 

I suspect that Bob’s memory isn’t what it used to be.

 

Plus when I had met him he had just been bucked off of a mule he had been training and had suffered some cracked ribs. He seemed good, but I bet there were pain meds involved. Dunno. I think it’s to be expected that he may begin to contradict himself. One of the biggest sources of contention between my mom and I before she died was the history of the ranch. She would either get the sequence of events wrong or attribute the wrong people to the correct event. Her memory never entirely went but it was getting garbled.

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SWWASAS

I am finding it is a good thing I have taken field notes.     My major encounters were a number of years ago and I found when I read through the field notes I took at the time, there are details I remember wrong or or have forgotten altogether.   You cannot imagine when you have had an encounter experience you would ever forget details, but it does happen over time.    Bob Gimlin had no idea 50 years ago, people would be getting all wrapped around the axle about details of the event that long ago.   It did not help that he was exposed to so much local ridicule for so many  years.  He probably wanted to forget the whole thing.   

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Backdoc
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, OldMort said:

Obviously there is no way to verify if Gimlin's story about gathering the boxes ever actually occurred or not.

 

If Al made previous statements in interviews he gave Gimlin the boxes at his suggestion or if Gimlin asked for them that works. That would be verification Gimlin asked and took cardboard boxes with the claimed intent of covering the tracks.   

 

Quote

There are references to the weather in Willow Creek being pleasant under a full moon and clear skies on the night of October 20. (Hodgson IIRC). 

 

Perhaps old Apache trackers have an innate sense that alerts them to subtle changes in the weather . :)

 

Seriously - Its hard to know how precise National Weather Service models were in those early "tech" days.

 

I don't know the genesis of the weather claim (knowing it might rain).  To have Gimlin tell it in that interview, he stated at that time they were not sure what they had on film so he wanted to preserve the tracks for others to see and cast.  It makes sense once he realized it was starting to rain he would be motivated to cover them up from the rain.

 

Quote

Gimlin says a lot of things in his recent "interviews."

 

A few times now he has stated that the footage was filmed on a Saturday.

 

In other news, Gimlin claims that his old buddy Bob H is now confined to a wheelchair and that he wishes him well.

 

Gimlin stated he covered the tracks with bark (or at least some of them) and had claimed this in previous interviews over the last several years.  If he was a hoaxer and a liar it seems to me a pretty foolish thing to claim to have done and not done.  Others came to the site after they said where it was.  There have been no claims that I know of where Roger or Bob were claimed to have been quiet of where the film was filmed.  I have always wanted to get independent verification by someone others coming to the site saw bark over a track or two.

 

 

 

I seem to remember (and could be very wrong) of an interview given by Al H. where he stated he gave Gimlin the boxes.  Im pretty sure about that.

Edited by Backdoc

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