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Missing 411


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#61 bipedalist

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:56 AM

I like this hypothesis allegedly contained within the 411 book as referenced on another thread.

Or, this one .....

Edited by bipedalist, 29 April 2012 - 10:00 AM.

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#62 Strick

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:55 AM

Does anyone know how specific Paulides is in reference to the 'wormhole' theory? Are we putting words into his mouth or extrapolating solutions that are not there in the text?

I had thought that Paulides was playing down the Bigfoot angle in the podcasts I've heard because he wanted to broaden his audience and perhaps break into the true crime market.

However, if he is truly explicit in advocating the wormhole/gap in the space/time continuum hypothesis, then he can kiss goodbye to the mainstream and most niche Bigfooters as well...




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#63 poignant

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:15 AM

Better late than never, I listened to the AM Coast to Coast interview with George Knapp on YouTube last night and had trouble sleeping after. Some of the stories are just downright heartbreaking and the cover-up utterly despicable.

The incident in the Yukon where the physician's son, an avid and fit outdoorsman, was supposedly snatched from his hunting blind up in the tree and remains of his small bones found nearby was very very compelling. Toddlers found 1000-2000ft elevation above where they were last seen - yikes.

Assuming the culprits were BF, here's what I took from the interview:
  • SOME BF have a taste for man and are truly opportunistic. This should make us rethink how we should be attempting to research them in the wild and could explain their affinity for children.
  • Areas with 'Devil's this' and 'Devil's that' may be worth staking out since the etymology is suggestive of prior incidents - be safe people.
  • BF retreat to high elevations.
  • We may have an explanation for the foot-in-shoe phenomenon on the shores of Vancouver BC where I live.
Time to get the book.
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#64 Guest_WIWolfman_*

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:12 PM

Poignant excellent post! When you get the books remember the names Bart Schleyer, Evelyn Rossman and Charles McCullar. Obviously all of the subjects involved in this book deserve a shout out and have a story behind them, but these three names will stick with you forever because of the tragic implications of sadistic death they experienced. If some Bigfoots indeed are cannibals, this would be an informative start.
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#65 Cervelo

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:21 PM

I find nothing unusually about the NP system not wanting to "advertise" missing persons or keeping track of it in any way.
All of these cases were investigated, searches made bodies found or not.
Not sure why keeping track of it is that big a deal unless of course you've connected a bunch of random dots and reached a conclusion that something mysterious is going on when there's really not.
Dogs stop tracking all the time, kids are capable of covering alot more ground than one would think, people, animals, get snatched up by other people and animals all the time given the opportunity.
Odd stuff happens for sure but to suggest, wormholes, time shifts, Bigfoot kidnappings, fun to talk about for sure and a great way to sell books ;)

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#66 JDL

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:46 PM

Presumably NPS personnel are aware of disturbing activity in their jurisdictions.

Over the years, Paulides hears stories regarding suspicious disappearances in National Parks (that we assume he assumed were bigfoot-related).

Paulides finally decides to investigate a couple of disappearances, is held at arm's distance during his visit, then contacted by an off-duty ranger before he leaves, who relates a troubling account and implies that information is being withheld from him.

Paulides persists and is given the run-around on his FOIA requests. Despite this, he is able to dig up an incomplete data set of disappearances.

The incomplete data set in and of itself is alarming and NPS actions suggest that they do not want the public to become aware of the totality of the situation.

The data set suggests that there are multiple types of predators active in the park system, human and otherwise, and that the visible extent of the problem is only the tip of the iceberg.

On its face it is worth investigating, no matter the cause(s).
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For those who have not personally encountered a bigfoot, the proponent/skeptic debate comes down to nothing more than opposing belief systems.

#67 Cervelo

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:00 PM

No iceberg more like an ice cube, nothing but one mans interpetation, conjecture and looking for a boogie man where there is none.
As unfourtunate as theses stories are, just as the NPS states millions go in every year and statistically the vast majority come back.
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#68 operator

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:53 PM

how about being in the wrong place at the wrong time?Pot growers are using public forest in order to grow there crops what if someone stumbled upon a group of "farmers"they sure dont want there crop exposed so someone goes missing.this is just one small example.
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#69 Cervelo

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:08 PM

Absolutely another logical explanation before we leap frog to the black hole time shift ;)
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#70 JDL

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:13 PM

Personally, I believe that human predators are partially to blame. Misadventure and accident as well. I don't go in for wormholes or timeshifts, but having seen and been stalked by bigfoot myself, I'm perfectly ready to accept that some of the disappearances are bigfoot-related.
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For those who have not personally encountered a bigfoot, the proponent/skeptic debate comes down to nothing more than opposing belief systems.

#71 Cisco

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:52 PM

If Bigfoot exist, then I fully expect they would nab a person when the opportunity presented itself. No different than a grizzly. In fact, who would even accuse a Bigfoot of being the culprit?

That being said, aside from a rogue Bigfoot, there are plenty of other reasons why people disappear out in the "wild." "Wild" being the key word.....

Edited by Cisco, 07 May 2012 - 03:53 PM.

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#72 Kings Canyon

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:18 PM

Clearly these kinds of cases you seem to be talking about are not the kinds of cases he chose for the book. The cases in the book (apparently, having only heard interviews, not having read it yet) were unusual and mysterious to a guy who was a police detective. I think you'd really have to address the particular circumstances in the particular cases to make your argument.
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It was probably a bear. Or a coyote. Maybe a cougar.

#73 bipedalist

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:29 PM

I think if people will go back and reread Paulides on NABS blog in late Feb. 2012 and early March 2012 it will explain some more too.
Blog 112, 177 and 180 three among them that I think may apply.

Edited by bipedalist, 07 May 2012 - 07:29 PM.

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#74 Ace!

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:22 AM

how about being in the wrong place at the wrong time?Pot growers are using public forest in order to grow there crops what if someone stumbled upon a group of "farmers"they sure dont want there crop exposed so someone goes missing.this is just one small example.


I've heard this argument before, and really think it's one of the least likely. The worst way to keep a pot grow hidden is to have search and rescue looking for someone in the area. SAR searches are relatively methodical, cover significant ground, rather intensely, quickly and thoroughly and usually last for days or until the person is found. If you want a pot grow found, one of the best ways would be to have law enforcement think someone is lost in the area.
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#75 BFSleuth

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:08 PM

Very good point Ace, having had experience with SAR.

On the other hand, pot growers aren't always the sharpest knives in the drawer....
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#76 poignant

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:41 PM

Therefore the absence of pot growers in spite of SAR efforts indicates that something else is afoot.
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#77 operator

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 02:31 PM

but i have to ask why no bodys have never been found?if someone is mauled by a bear there would be some kind of remains.humans have rather large bones hard for them to be consumed by natural predetors.
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#78 BFSleuth

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 02:56 PM

It would depend on the location of the final resting place. If it is in thick understory you would never find the bones unless you knew exactly where to look, and after a year or two add some layers of leaves composting on top and you would need to dig to find any bones. If the location is up on a cliff face on a ledge, then it may be years or never that humans would ever go there for recreation. During SAR searches some of the most difficult terrain is ruled out simply because nobody would expect a person to climb up there all on his own, when you are doing a search you concentrate on grid areas but with very steep terrain some of that grid is simply not searched because of the very low probability that someone would actually be there (like very steep cliffs or very steep and deep river gorges).

I've never read a sighting report of BF making a kill then sitting down to make a meal on the spot. They always seem to make the kill then carry off their prize. There have been reports of potential boneyards or even stacked deer bodies, so it would seem they have a favorite dining area, maybe where the group comes back together to share the bounty.
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#79 Ace!

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:17 PM

Also, to piggyback on BFSleuth's post, when an area/grid is searched there is a probability of detection, or percentage assigned as to how well the area can be or was searched. If the area was difficult to search a lower number (percentage) is assigned to it, in that the team was less able to search it or had too few resources to detect a person in the area. A deep cavernous area would have less ability to be searched, less confidence in the search, lower probably of detection. It's the case too when you have too few resources, say few searchers in a larger area over a shorter amount of time (a hasty search likely has a lower probability of detection).
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#80 gail

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:56 PM

I'm getting the book.. I read about the 9 cross country skiiers and that got my attention. I didn't know there were so many people missing. Like, just vanishing. that would be a horrid thing to be on a hike, then turn around and your kid is gone. Just gone.... I believe that BF may have something to do with some disapearances. Just because there are old stories around of kids getting snatched in the dark if they wander off from their parents in the woods, etc. by monsters. Those stories are around for centuries. So, yeah. I beleive it. In other countries, I forget what one, but there are tales of monsters under bridges that wait to eat small children and things like that. My thought is, where did that story come from in the first place?

I know in Sweden they have trolls there. I'm not familiar with those stories enough to know if a troll is good or bad. They sell wooden trolls in Sweden to this day that people carve out of wood and you can bring them home. My husband had one and the thing was ugly, so I burned it. Lol. But, where did all those stories come from? there might be some truth to them after all. It would be interesting to find out a lot about the stories of the trolls, and gargoyles and things like that.
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